Lessons learned from recent NO bug-outs

[mitchshrader]

things that aren't wrong..

Skills aren't wrong. In no particular order..

Knots. Game preparation/cooking. Cobbler/shoe repair
Water finding/testing/purifying.
Fasting. Hiking. Waiting. Guarding. Remaining silent.
Map reading. Driving. Using radios. (ham, walkie talkie, CB)
Barter. Food storage. Making Sprouts. Child care.
Medicine. (Nursing,Diagnostics, EMT) Hydroponics/Cold Frame/Greenhouse/Garden/Smallholder Farming
Animal Care, Riding (motorcycles, horses, bicycles)
Swimming, Lifeguarding, Mouth-To-Mouth ..

an ENDLESS list, and lord knows mine is as flimsy and incomplete as a 2 minute effort produces.

Obviously the skills you DONT have are the critical ones.
Self congratulation on accomplishments is of little use.

Finding workarounds, finding others with appropriate matching skill sets, carrying field manuals & 'How To' books, compensating for missing skills in certain areas by over-supply of high value items..

are all lower efficiency than knowing it. Try teaching someone to swim as they drown and you'll begin to appreciate how important pre-education is.. for survival.

Rural lifestyles tend to require generalists. 'Jack of all trades' is a HIGH compliment in a survival situation. Being the best commodities trader in the city means nothing if the stock markets fizzled. Being able to build and repair a pair of shoes might be a life saving skill.

Foxfire books are useful. Partly because of the techniques they teach. Moreso because they teach you it CAN BE DONE. From making soap to making a water mill (for electricity, for mechanical power, for grain grinding) .. once you know it CAN be done, you're halfway there.

SHTF is an openended concept. Might be a few days of civic disorder, and infrastructure off line.. might be indefinite.

Can't predict. Can't prepare 100%. it's just not possible.
What you CAN do is gain confidence & independence & general purpose tools to survive. You can teach and inspire your family, friends, to do likewise. You can determine who (of all you know, don't think it's very many) is worth clinging to as they'll watch YOUR back, your family, your assets.. when you can't. Who do you REALLY trust? Cultivate 'em. They're gold and jewels..

oh yeah. picking your companions.. that's a huge skill.
be waymore concerned about that, than about whether you have 3 mags or 6..

or you may wake up dead.

 

[mitchshrader]

points of agreement..

obvious to me that the info from experience beats theory all to heck.

why i don't claim any expert status.

I know some few things, having been there and done that.. but that tiny accumulation is personal and much of it isn't teachable. of what IS teachable, first one must have a capable-of-learning, AND motivated.. student.

an observation: charity begins at home. you'll give a child, a lover, a parent.. what you won't give a stranger. (at least I HOPE that's the case)..

If you think you owe everyone the same treatment, you are a dangerous critter and i want to be far away from you.

If you think you can't afford ANY (help, assistance, charity)
to strangers, you are nearly as dangerous.

Humans help each other. That's why we're common.
Humans EAT each other.. however unpopular an idea.. it's conceivable in dire circumstances. Perhaps the single most common taboo in (nearly) every culture. Take the hint.

Hide assets. Don't appear desperate. Don't appear rich/flush/abundant. Ordinary wins.

Don't seek conflict. If conflict occurs, GIVE NO WARNINGS.

Do as you must do. Much of the time a simple 'walk away' is the best answer. Try to be quick about it, when that fits.

Calm is a huge asset. In a crunch, panic-ers are terribly dangerous. Don't (if at all possible) saddle yourself with such.

Groups can do what individuals cannot. Individuals can sometimes do what a group WILL not.

It may be required of you to die for your chosen group, whether that be a unit in combat, or a ragged batch of barely surviving refugees.

DO try to avoid that necessity, it's wasteful.

But IF you must.. have the foresight and good sense to have chosen a group you will be WILLING to die for. Otherwise you'll die feeling stupid.

 

[mitchshrader]

Stuff that works

Sturdy, low maintenance, multi purpose clothing.

Tight fitting jeans are a detriment. Comfy, well pocketed dungarees are an asset.

Huge bulky parkas are unaffordable (for weight/bulk/expense) in many situations. A hooded pullover and a sweater & vest & jacket & gloves may well be less 'unaffordable'.

Chocolate is hard to store, hard to keep around (it gets eaten) .. hard candies, less so.

Your fave capuccino mix probably isn't worth backpacking.
SOME sort of hot drink mix (teabags, energy drinks, boullion) is likely a good idea.

A LARGE bandanna has dozens of uses. from an impromptu diaper, to headband/do-rag, to a signal flag, to a coffee/swampwater/fuel filter.. useful sort of thing.

A good heavy plain leather belt can be a tourniquet, a razor strop, a tiedown, and hold your pants up after you lost a few pounds. Does yours do those things?

Do you have thread? needles? cord? rope? NOT the place to economise on quality.

ONE size of battery is nearly as useful as having common ammunition for multiple weapons. planning is essential.

small scissors (VERY GOOD ONES) are a medical tool, a tailors tool, a trade item, a crafters necessity.

small personal knives are critically essential. sturdy, near invisible (discreet), SHARP knives. and a way to keep em sharp. my choice of sharpening (portable) is a silicon carbide sharpening stone and an arkansas stone. both together are 4 inch x 1 inch x 3/4 inch and can be used for everything from axes, to saws, to farm tools, to personal/kitchen knives. Diamond hones also high efficiency but slightly less general purpose (double sided/two grit best value).

Firestarting is relevant. a magnifying glass, sealed matches, tinder/firestarter (one catches a spark 'passively' and the other burns like hell for a little while) .

.22 is a fave. 12 gauge is next.

COMPASS. and maps.

Binoculars. (size matters, consider your circumstances. worst case, a rifle scope works)

Plastic bags are food storage, emergency firestarter, water containers, containment for biohazard material .. have some gallon ziplocks.

DUCT TAPE. it's the law...

a bit of wire. a guitar string. several uses will come to mind.

notebook/pad/paper/pen/pencil. be ABLE to write it down. then keep it DRY.

Socks. don't skimp on quantity OR quality. extras are trade items. HEAVY soft plain moccasins. (not fur lined, beaded, or rubber soled)

spice. black pepper, red pepper, garlic powder, cumin, cinnamon, nutmeg, vanilla bean, curry powder. Careful prep/storage to minimize weight essential.

you get the idea. go multipurpose, general use, First. go extreme quality on tiny stuff, duplicates ditto. avoid esoteric items (as they're likely irreplaceable)

what you leave out says more about your skill than what you keep.

example: I knew once a man who had a survival shelter for mountain treks. 6 feet of baling wire and a 12x12 foot hunk of 8 mil clear construction plastic. wire to tie a tripod of poles together, (cut as needed) and plastic to wrap them.. then the leftover wire hanging supported his cookpot (a peach can) .. and this WORKED. 2 liter water bottle (plastic pepsi container) .. an 18 inch bowsaw blade.
his outfit was replaceable for a couple dollars, and he USED it. (of course, he WAS crazy, but he didn't freeze) ..

the idea that you need an LL Bean catalog to build a survival kit is silly..

 

[mitchshrader]

survival fitness

is a variable. you needn't be a weightlifter or marathon runner. you may not have ANY desire to work out, and you may have health problems that preclude intense exercise.

what do you NEED?

IMO, the ability to walk. You MUST BE able to walk as required, (apologies to those in wheelchairs, their issues are unknown to me, and i am skipping it)

so go WALK already. A day pack with your lunch and a brick in it (simulates handgun + ammo weight) .. and 3 times weekly to start. if you are so inclined a bit of mild jogging or perhaps some swimming, if it's convenient and you like it. Ditto bicycling.

You are then in a position to test your gear. Walk around with various loads on, (from 10% to 50% of your body weight, depending on age, physique, and optimism)
and find OUT what you can do. Wizard good time to test your boots' quality as well..

for handgun use, a 'grip strengthener, (squeeze spring) or rubber ball is handy. strong hands & wrists make aiming easier.

If you are significantly overweight, WALK. If you aren't, WALK. some fat folks are NOT in bad shape. diet will NOT get you in shape. you must get a bit sore, (not more than a bit) and get over it, repeatedly, to build muscle mass and acquire muscle tone. Expect a minimum of 6 weeks gradual increase in effort, and another 6 weeks pounding pavement to polish the result.

This isn't a training regimen. It's not got lists and goals. It's a basic LIFE idea.. get off yo' dead butt and go for a walk. EVERY DAY.

 

[Huntzman]

LEO's & Military

I am going to throw my .02 in here, and I hope that it information you never have to use. Please also understand that I intend it as constructive, and not looking to ignite anything.

There are a lot of people that are going to find fault with things done by the military, and by law enforcement in particular. During a time of crisis, simply try your best to avoid them completely and thereby removing any potential obstacles to whatever plan you may or may not have.

As a twenty year LEO I can tell you that by and large most are just going to be doing the best that they can under the circumstances. Remember, in the majority of instances we are staying behind to do our jobs, while you are doing the smart thing and getting the hell out of dodge. I think a lot of people forget the human aspect. We are no different then any other aspect of society. We have jerks, idiots and ne’er-do-wells just like any other profession. The majority really do care about those they have taken an oath to protect and don’t want to see harm come to them.

Just like the military, we also take and follow orders. There have been times when I have not agreed with the marching orders, but I still marched. If you encounter a LEO or military, you are going to have to follow their instructions, because in most cases they are following orders given to them. You can always get into a discussion about whether or not the orders are legitimate, but is that something you really want to do when the merde is hitting the ventilator? Odds are strong you are going to lose, and no one has the time or the patience for it. It also seems destined to failure, especially when you are directing your anger to someone who is probably on his last nerve anyway. :banghead:

If you can make your own way, go for it and just completely avoid the interaction. Trust me, they are going to have enough on their hands and if they can avoid having to deal with one more individual they are going to be ecstatic. I have yet to see one off my fellow harried civil servants chase down a person to initiate work!! It has always amazed me when people see a volatile situation going on and they insist that they have a right to walk on through. While you might be extremely sensible, we have a tendency to deal with a large quantity of idiots and pattern our “repeated conversations” along those lines.

Just my humble opinion

 

[Mongo the Mutterer]

As a twenty year LEO I can tell you that by and large most are just going to be doing the best that they can under the circumstances.

Huntzman.

1. Good post

2. Welcome to THR

3. You confirmed what I have decided. To avoid all types of confrontation, LEO or not, in the event of a SHTF. I am going to walk out of St. Louis, if I am at work. Will it be difficult, yep. But I will make it. I don't plan to go near any officials of any kind.

 

[AStone]

I think a lot of people forget the human aspect. We are no different then any other aspect of society. We have jerks, idiots and ne’er-do-wells just like any other profession.

+1. Good point. This guy completely agrees.

I get angry with a few friends and other peops sometimes for bashing LEO's.

It's NO different for LEO's than {choose one or all} lawyers, mayors, pilots, professors, scientists, car sales people, gun owners...{the list goes on indefinitely}. Each group has it's jerks & idiots, but for the most part, each has a larger proportion of good people.

Thanks for reminding us.

And as Mongo sez, welcome to THR.

Nem

 

[Huntzman]

Thanks for the welcome

I appreciate the welcome and I certainly hope that my post might help should the situation every present itself.

I used to get annoyed when family / friends / others would come to me and complain about what a cop did / said to them. After a while I began asking what planet they thought the cop was from. That stopped them in their tracks. I would go on to explain that unless they were talking about some new species, that the cop they encountered was just a product of our society. The same people we went to school and grew up with went on to me cops, firemen, soldiers, teachers, lawyers, construction workers, etc.... if they were jerks before, how much hope caan you hold outt that the future was going to change them.

My advice, avoid them and thereby avoid any potential for an issue to arrise. If you have no choice, be respectful, courteous and concillatory. You'd be surprised how many people get a free ride just because of the way they act. The last thing you want to do is a challange an officer regarding whether or not he had a right to stop you. You lose the moment you start that fight.

As for me, I'm making like a ghost and getting my family to safety without anyone ever knowing I was there.

Stay safe !!

 

[CoachVince]

Just like the military, we also take and follow orders. There have been times when I have not agreed with the marching orders, but I still marched. If you encounter a LEO or military, you are going to have to follow their instructions, because in most cases they are following orders given to them. You can always get into a discussion about whether or not the orders are legitimate, but is that something you really want to do when the merde is hitting the ventilator? Odds are strong you are going to lose, and no one has the time or the patience for it. It also seems destined to failure, especially when you are directing your anger to someone who is probably on his last nerve anyway. :banghead:

The way my father always put it :

You can never win an argument with a cop in the field.

To explain (if I really need to); this officer has already decided what the correct response to the situation is. Without drastically changing the circumstances, he will be unlikely to change his mind. You generally don't want to get involved in changing the circumstances.

If it's not a SHTF situation, explain yourself, and accept what tells you; then argue it in court. If it is a SHTF situation, avoid LEOs. Not because they're evil! Just because if you know what you're doing, they won't have to spend time telling you what they've been ordered to tell you; go your way, do your thing, and let them help the sheeple. That's their job, and that's what they stand in harm's way for.

 

[UnintendedConsequences]

On the flip side of the situation

For those of us who already live in a rural area, like myself, I would point out a general vew about how we feel and could handle the refugees from a major natural disaster. The honest answer would be, we are happy to help...for a SHORT time. After a couple of weeks we hope you will be able to find a better place to set down roots, you have found a job here and can contribute to the economy or you are able to head back to where you came from.

We CANNOT support large numbers of evacuees for more than a couple of weeks. Why is that? The small town I live near has about 210 people, one small grocery store, two gas stations/convience stores, three restaurants and two SMALL hotels, two small campgrounds. The one highway that runs through it has two lanes and goes north to a town of about 2,550 and south to a town of about 700. Both of those towns have limited infrastructure and resources for large numbers of people hard on their luck because of a major natural disaster.

We take care of our own and ourselves when the power goes out, the snow flies or the water floods. We sit tight for the most part and wait it out going naturally into a late 19th century mode. The majority of us don't live right on the side of a creek, though many live on the lakefront, so a good number of us would just be inconvenienced by flooding. We are so far from the ocean that we might get the lightest tailend of a hurricane.

Tornados, wildfires, severe thunderstorms, flooding and ice storms are about the extent of our worries. If the New Madrid fault breaks loose, well, there won't be much place safe in Missouri, Iowa, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee or Arkansas or even as far down as Louisiana, Mississippi or Texas. Why do I say that? The last time we had it break loose was in the winter of 1811-1812 and it make the Mississippi River run backwards and the shockes were felt as far east as the Eastern Seaboard. That was back when many houses were log cabins which resisted the quakes. Now we have modern homes that aren't quake proof nor infrastructure that is quake proof either. You do the pondering.

I have mid-sized livestock and poultry. There's no way to bug out with all of them even if I had a suitable truck and trailer. And where would I bug out to? I have plenty of natural reasources to keep from dying of thirst, cold and hunger right here. What would be bug-out for many would be bug-in for me.

While I think that most of the advice is focused towards those in suburban/urban areas, I think that the preparations for those in rural areas should also be addressed. Most of us would switch the choices around to reflect becoming a self-reliant homestead rather than a mobile get out of town vehicle. Most of what I do is geared to hunkering down and waiting it out. To bug out would be almost impossible under my current circumstances. My only solution is to think about how to survive in place.

However, I do figure out ways to make survival kits down to the size of the typical Altoids can and I'm even working on one that is based on using a rifle to carry basic supplies.

I will also speak about LEOs for my area alone. They are all adrenalin junkies save for one old-timer who is now a reserve officer and believes in the spirit of the law over the letter. The rest take every opportunity to blast the stuffing out of anything that moves or doesn't move as they double as our SWAT team for the county. The small town police officers are slightly to significantly better depending on which town you are talking about. In any case, I don't have faith or trust in any of them, save a handful, to do the right thing in a FEMA level disaster in my area. I would say they are more like the New Orleans cops who looted than the upstanding "Walker, Texas Ranger" type. I would stay clear of all of them as long as they stayed clear of my property.

 

[NineseveN]

http://www.frfrogspad.com/disastr.htm

Preacherman, I hope the author of the above webpage means you when he says,

The follow information was provided via several emails by a friend heavily involved in the New Orleans disaster of hurricane Katrina.

and

Please note that I am not the author of this piece!
I will, however, be glad to forward your comments to the author.

because your post is the content, pretty much verbatim.

 

[DragonRider]

He is refering to Preacherman, I pm'd him the same question a few months ago.

 

[carebear]

They're both part of the clergy gun Mafia.

 

[kahr404life]

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