Lessons learned from recent NO bug-outs

[Tokugawa]

I am sure most of you have read the thead about the man who loaded up his 6x6 ex army truck, put on camoes and drove to the delta to help. This is an EXTREMELY IMPORTANT LESSON!- he was able to drive unimpeded through roadblocks and checkpoints because he had a semblance of "authority". This is useful both to gain the trust of the "authorities" and to deter the scum.
So some military style clothing, or coveralls with logo and hard hat , some olive drab paint for the truck or "official looking" stickers or somrthing along that line could be very useful for protective coloration.
Scenario- you are a leo- there have been mass reports of looting, rape, murder etc. You see a guy walking or driving with a beatup civilian looking vehicle, dressed in jeans and teeshirt looking scruffy with an AK over his shoulder- Are you more likely to give him trouble, or shoot him-
Than the guy who looks spruced up , wearing fatigues and an US issue weapon , driving what looks like an "official" vehicle?

I have no real life experiance in this sort of thing, but the lesson seemed clear as day to me- please correct if I got it wrong!

 

[Owen]

500 million links!!

ok good things,

could you point directly to the article you are talking about refereing to cats and dogs?

No fair making us search for a page so we can look at a specific article, when there are well over 100 links on the page, and many of those have links on them.

 

[Art Eatman]

Assuming the bug-out is from a Katrina or a larger version of the Rodney King riots--but not some national SHTF breakdown deal: Have you thought about cash money? Do you have an easily-available way to get greenbacks before leaving town? Or, do you have a deliberate cash-stash for emergencies?

Remember that Katrina was not a truly obvious threat on Friday. Banks close. If a large number of folks hit the auto-tellers, it's possible for them to run out of cash in the face of larger-than-usual withdrawals.

Allied to this: Do you have all the records of your life in one place? DD 214 if you've been in the service. High School diploma or a transcript of your college grades. A list of all your credit cards and the appropriate 800 phone # if a card is lost (You can code the numbers by adding "1" to the first number group, "2" to the second, and so on). Property deeds. Copies of any contracts to which you're a party.

After all, if your house elevation was at -12 feet, you're maybe not going home for months, if ever.

Art

 

[LAK]

On the subject of vehicle types, IMO it largely depends on your number of passengers, expected payload, range, travel route and destination options.

A large 4x4 with a long wheelbase might carry much, and potentially go very far; but might have difficulty with some offroad obstacles. A small trail bike, say 250cc, will overcome many offroad situations; but carry very little, have limited range and offer no integral shelter and comfort.

My own preference is a midsized 4x4 with a small trailer. Plenty of extra gear, fuel etc can be packed in a small trailer, and a shorter wheelbase vehicle will have less trouble with some terrain features and obstacles.

Most important with any adequate vehicle in your plans is to plan on having to leave it behind at some point, and make sure you have your essential gear packed separetly in a modular form should you have to abandon it quickly.
---------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[Balog]

Speaking of good "survival" type web resources, I'd point out James Wesley, Rawles' SurvivalBlog. It's by the author of the excellent post-SHTF novel Patriots.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

It's by the author of the excellent post-SHTF novel Patriots.

Ah yes. The book where we learn about the dangers from communist cannibal looters pushing grocery carts.

 

[Jim Diver]

I would take the HAM radio thing a few steps further. If you have an HT, get a mag mount vertical antenna for the car. A good antenna will allow you to pull in distant signals and reach out farther.

Better yet, get a 50-100 watt mobile.. the best you can afford. I personaly have a Kenwood TM-D700A and an ICOM 2720. In good conditions I have made 70+ mile contacts simplex (w/o a repeater). The APRS and packet capability of the 700A allowes me some email access. Crossband repeat allows me to also control the 700A with my Kenwood HT. It basicly turns the 700A into a repeater.

Most HTs have a alkaline battery pack that will allow you to take your dead rechargable HT battery out and power it on AA or AAA batteries. It's not full power usualy, but AA batteries are easier to get than working power outlet in a power failure.

I would also add that you should keep a supply of plastic tubing with you as well to syphon gas from disabled vehicles.

Another thing, keep your primary bug out car in good repair. Meaning Tires, hoses, belts, oil and tuneups. Don't want to get stuck just cause you forgot to change a belt. Keep spare fuses in the glove box.

If you have a generator, pack in a power strip too. You might need to power more than 2 things at once.

Travel games for the kids... battleship, spotting games, checkers, connect 4 etc... takes up a little space and worth it's weight in gold when the kids are in your hair.

Make sure your are not doubling up on some thing as those who are going with you. For instance, someone, not everyone, in your group should carry a good set of tools. Someone should have a set of bolt cutters for getting into closed campgrounds.

It's been mentioned before, but it is worth repeating.. Get good socks. I prefer Thorlos combat boot socks for my boots. Warm and keep your feet dry. Keep at 3 pair for each person.

Also, pack Rolaids or Tums. Stress and MREs can cause heartburn... It really sucks when you keep waking up with heartburn. Imodium tabs should be kept as well incase you drank some water that was not as pure as you thought.

Alcohol is a must, not only for it's disinfecting properties, but also because it makes a great coolant for someone who is overheated. Saw lots of that in NOLA.

First Aid kits are not complete unless they have a blood pressure cuff. Great for controlling bleeding.

Sewing kit. Good to keep clothes in repair and closing wounds.

More as I think of it.....

 

[Derek Zeanah]

Re HAM radio: I should be getting the test knocked out this weekend (going to take elements 1-3, so wish me luck).

I'm seriously looking at an SGC 2020. Looks about as durable as a PRC-77, offers receive and send (after you pull a jumper, otherwise send only on ham bands) all the way from 10m-160m, doesn't draw much power, is compatible with all digital modes, can be hooked up to a gel cell like most, but can be run off of 10 D batteries for 20 hours in listen-only mode. It's 20W, but that seems like plenty.

The down-sides seem to be that it's SSB and CW only (AM would be nice for shortwave listening, but supposedly you can make do with LSB and USB).

So, what's the comparable VHF/UHF unit? Something with an interface easier to use than a VX-5r or comparable?

 

[Balog]

Derek Zeanah: I'll grant you that was a bit far fetched. But I've always felt the same about the "barely pubescent boy waxing the hillbilly rapists" part of Unintended Consequences. Doesn't mean it isn't a good resource. Not perfect, but still useful.

 

[Malamute]

"On the subject of vehicle types, IMO it largely depends on your number of passengers, expected payload, range, travel route and destination options.

A large 4x4 with a long wheelbase might carry much, and potentially go very far; but might have difficulty with some offroad obstacles. A small trail bike, say 250cc, will overcome many offroad situations; but carry very little, have limited range and offer no integral shelter and comfort.

My own preference is a midsized 4x4 with a small trailer. Plenty of extra gear, fuel etc can be packed in a small trailer, and a shorter wheelbase vehicle will have less trouble with some terrain features and obstacles."




I agree on sizing your vehicle to the need. I guess I have large needs, with 2 large dogs, and liking enough gear to get by in any season.

My feeling about the manueverabilty difference between medium and larger vehivles, in my case a Nissan extra cab PU and a Suburban, is that the Suburban gives up little in manueverability to the Nissan, particularly when the Nissan is pulling a trailer. The trailer is what would make the Nissan tenable to me, as far as load carrying, (spare fuel, etc) and having room to sleep in the back. The range of the larger vehicle still makes it more attractive to me. One of the real issues for many trying to leave NO was the availabilty of fuel, not so much the quantity they could get. I like the idea of being able to make 400-500 miles on a tank of fuel, rather than 200-250 miles.

I've had extra cab full size pickups, they truly are long wheelbase vehicles. They ARE tough to manuever. The Subrban hasn't been a problem for me.

Just my experience.

 

[Thin Black Line]

Just a note on spoofing the "semblance of authority":

The first time you run into the private at the roadblock and can't produce the
proper ID card, you will be turned back. Yes, if there's enough chaos at
the moment and there's no real road blocks, you will slip through. But,
so do lots of people. You might also get caught later at a hasty checkpoint
and then they begin to wonder where you got your camo deuce or why your
white bronco has some sort of official-looking unofficial seal on the side.
Consider yourself detained at that point until they can find an officer to
figure it out. In the meantime, they will be glad you brought them the extra
deuce and you can always go to court later with the receipt and get it
back...yeah, it's a risk.

Someone mentioned GPS --that's good to have, too. You can load entire
maps and/or pre-program your own points. The tracks feature is nice.
Remember to get one that's waterproof. A little compass that slips onto
your watchband can be on you 24/7.

One more thing that's good for the med kit: tampons. Works great for
plugging .30 cal holes, maintains pressure, keeps you alive until you
find someone who can help. But, it's no subsitute for a medic with an IV
and subsequent professional trauma care.

 

[Jim Diver]

Prior to the disaster, recon at least 3 good bug out destinations. The first will be full, the second will quickly fill with undesirables...

Have a small shovel... If you plan to stay in one location for any ammount of time, you will need to dig a latrine.

A tape recorder... digital or otherwise. Good to record directions given over a radio when you can't write.

Foot powder... Foot itch can be a bitch.

Rite in the rain makes some great notepads that you can write on and they never get wet.

Head lamp... especialy if you have no one to hold a light for you.

In the documents section, be sure to have a copy of fido's microchip number... In case he runs off.

Ronco Pocket Fisherman.... tackle and pole in a compact kit. For days when the game is hiding.

Your favorite religious text... for when you need some inspiration.

A cd backed up with all your important files and finacial data. If you have a scanner, scan in all those important family photos and put them on the disk... then you can recreate them should they be lost in the disaster. Takes up no space too. Can also be used to help find your kids/family should you be seperated.

A word about water filters. Katadyn's filters, when they clog, require you to replace the filter. Get a ceramic filter. They can be cleaned with a scouring pad.

Sure I will think of more later...

 

[LAK]

Malamute

I like the idea of being able to make 400-500 miles on a tank of fuel, rather than 200-250 miles.

Me too. In the case of sudden disasters - like flooding, disease outbreak etc minutes may count. Driving or otherwise lingering around "looking for [anything]" is to be avoided. I want to be on the road asap feeling out the best destination and route options.

I've had extra cab full size pickups, they truly are long wheelbase vehicles. They ARE tough to manuever.

Yeah, like those old Dodges
----------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[LAK]

Jim Diver

word about water filters. Katadyn's filters, when they clog, require you to replace the filter. Get a ceramic filter. They can be cleaned with a scouring pad.

The Katadyn Pocket model is ceramic, as is the Micro; except the Micro as fitted with the charcoal filter. The other one they make - or made - the dual filter model (can't recall the model offhand), utilizes a ceramic and charcoal element.
------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[Tall Man]

A word about water filters. Katadyn's filters, when they clog, require you to replace the filter. Get a ceramic filter. They can be cleaned with a scouring pad.

The Katadyn Pocket model is ceramic, as is the Micro; except the Micro as fitted with the charcoal filter. The other one they make - or made - the dual filter model (can't recall the model offhand), utilizes a ceramic and charcoal element.

Both quotes are correct. I personally own a Katadyn Hiker filter, which does in fact use a replaceable pleated/charcoal filter that has a 200 gallon rating. Others, such as what LAK mentions, do have the renewable (i.e., quasi-permanent) ceramic filters.

Granted, the models with ceramic filters are much costlier. I will opine that the Hiker model is not junk, however. It was in fact a pricey little piece of plastic. For my BOB purposes - meaning anticipated need and frequency of use - it was the best choice for me.

Excellent thread, by the way. I hope it sets a record for the quantity and quality of participants.

TM

 

[SelfSufficientLiving.com]

WOW! You are a very generous man. I often hear my friends say "If anything happens I'm coming to your house". No one but family has received a invitation to share supplies in the event of a crisis. I certainly need to do some more thinking about this kind of situation as it seems to happen a lot.


Scott
http://www.selfsufficientliving.com

 

[svtruth]

My $0.02

First, Preacherman, thanks for collating all this valuable info.
Texascarl beat me to the punch on fixed blade knives. Mora knives are laminated, hold a great edge, and are very inexpensive. Not less than $50, but less than $10.

 

[roxygss]

Fire

I apologize for not reading all 7 pages before posting this.

Save your matches for when you really need them and use the power of the sun to start your fires.... MAGNIFYING GLASS..... don't you remember your kid days of burning ants?

 

[weatherman]

A question.

Preacherman.

First of all, thank you for your posts. You have provided more food for thought than I've found anywhere.

You mentioned RV's for bug out and said stay away from the large ones. In you opinion, how big was too big?

I have a 25' travel trailer that I pull with a F-350. For Wyoming, that seems about right.

Just courious, thanks.

 

[Art Eatman]

weatherman, I think the main points about size are those of physical obstacles which might be likely and width/twistiness of the roads you expect to traverse.

The type of hazard from which you're trying to excape also affects your planning. Wyoming lacks hurricanes and SFAIK earthquakes. But forest fires might affect you...

Art

 

[Preacherman]

Weatherman, I'd say it depends on the roads and traffic conditions in your area. The folks who encountered problems here were pulling trailers both smaller and larger than yours. Three were travel trailers of 20-26 feet, one was a fifth-wheel type of about 32 feet, and two were motorhomes. Towing vehicles included two large pickups and two large SUV's.

The main problem they encountered was moving in the very heavy traffic on surface streets, prior to hitting the interstate. Turns have to be taken wide with such combinations, and when the roads are jam-packed with evacuating traffic, no-one is going to yield to you so you can make a wide turn. Also, getting into and out of gas stations and convenience stores is more difficult when there are dozens of vehicles trying to do the same thing in a very limited space. Three of the four trailers, and one of the motorhomes, bore evidence of encounters with other vehicles or fixed obstacles that they picked up during the 250-mile journey from NO to my home.

On the interstate itself, traveling with the flow of traffic, obviously the size of your trailer or motorhome is much less of a problem.

 

[kbarrett]

Just some notes....

Just some notes ....

Carbide and other water sensitive items can be stored in unused paint cans ... my local hardware store sells them for $2 each.

Magnesium firestarters are useless. Best emergency firestart I have ever seen was a jar full of petroleum jelly soaked cotton balls with a cheap butane lighter taped to it. put one wad in your tinder, and light.

Add a pint or so of 30 weight oil drained from your car crankcase and you can start a campfire in any weather.

MSR also makes great all fuel stoves ... anything from stove oil to white gas can be used to cook...

If you think the water is going to be so nasty as to require distilling, then I would suggest adding a distiller's column and tubing to your stash.

 

[Malamute]

My favorite fire starter is the surplus trioxane fuel tablets. They can be used with the folding sheet metal stove to heat things, but I primarily keep a couple of the tabs in their foil packs in my pocket or belt fire starter kit with an old style nickled brass match safe with strike anywhere matches, and some windproof matches with some striker board in the case. For less urgent need, a small part of a bar will start a fire, for an emergency, the whole bar will get about any tinder/wood going that I've tried it with.

Came in handy on the river trip that we had everyone soaked in 45 degree water, and almost lost several people in the river. Had a roaring fire going in a couple minutes after getting off the river.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

When I did a lot of camping during the time I was in Civil Air Patrol, it always seemed to rain before we pitched camp. By the time we gathered wood it was often wet and hard to light. Unless, like me, you carried a 15 minute magnesium road flare in your pack.

 

[dmftoy1]

I've always found that opening the fuel/water separator on my diesel truck and catching 1/2 cup of diesel or so makes a pretty quick fire as well!