weatherman
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- Sep 17, 2005
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Point taken about an RV. I se your point about access to tight spaces. My plans call for having enough gas in cans to fill the tank twice.
Lessons learned from recent NO bug-outs
- Thread starter Preacherman
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AZLibertarian
Member
Mrs. Azlib made fun of me for my half-assed Y2K preparations, but since the Duct Tape & Plastic Sheeting HooHah of a couple of years ago, we've been making slow, serious preparations.
As has been discussed elsewhere, the first question (barring a Katrina/Rita-styled gov't order) will be whether (and when) to Bug Out. Our preparations are split into the "We're Staying Here" decision and the "We're Outta Here" option. Depending on what cataclysm we're talking about, one option might be better than the other.
One item I've added to our kit is a set of high-end painter's masks. Our concern was to get as much chem/bio protection for the buck without going with the crappy (and often questionable, IMO) mil-surp masks out there on the market. IIRC, they meet an N-95 standard and ran $25-30 each.
The East part of the Phoenix area (where I live) has a large population of Mormons. Many (most?) of them live just like everybody else, but my neighbor is one of their True Believers. He's got a closet of stockpiled beans, rice and wheat in 5-gallon buckets stacked to the ceiling. I asked him once if he planned on sharing that during a TEOTWAWKI and he said that he would, but he also planned on leading simultaneous study of the Book of Mormon while everyone was eating.
We're not Mormon, and I've got serious differences with their theology, but the preparative nature of their lifestyle is admirable.
As has been discussed elsewhere, the first question (barring a Katrina/Rita-styled gov't order) will be whether (and when) to Bug Out. Our preparations are split into the "We're Staying Here" decision and the "We're Outta Here" option. Depending on what cataclysm we're talking about, one option might be better than the other.
One item I've added to our kit is a set of high-end painter's masks. Our concern was to get as much chem/bio protection for the buck without going with the crappy (and often questionable, IMO) mil-surp masks out there on the market. IIRC, they meet an N-95 standard and ran $25-30 each.
The East part of the Phoenix area (where I live) has a large population of Mormons. Many (most?) of them live just like everybody else, but my neighbor is one of their True Believers. He's got a closet of stockpiled beans, rice and wheat in 5-gallon buckets stacked to the ceiling. I asked him once if he planned on sharing that during a TEOTWAWKI and he said that he would, but he also planned on leading simultaneous study of the Book of Mormon while everyone was eating.
We're not Mormon, and I've got serious differences with their theology, but the preparative nature of their lifestyle is admirable.AStone
Member
With respect to bugout from a large metro area: today, i saw a new dimension to this issue.P'man said:
I saw footage from the Galveston/Houston area about what happens on Interstates, highways & secondary roads of what happens when 1 million try to 'bug out' from a cat 4 hurricane even with 48 hours notice. The result was 'traffic jam on the interstate system'. Can you say 'totally clogged'? I heard reports of people being able to travel 45 miles in 12 hours, of people running their AC due to heat, then running out of gas; of gas stations so beseiged with drivers seeking fuel that they required a 2-hour wait, and then ran out of gas.
And that's with 48 hour notice. Imagine what it'd be like in a more immediate emergency.
Here's my point: you may have the biggest, badest bug out vehicle ever made, stocked to the roof with all the weapons, water filters, food & supplies that you could want.
But if you're stuck in traffic with Joe Unprepared, what good is that buggie doing you now?
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Chemical weapons attack the skin or the mucous membranes, which includes your eyes. A mil-surp mask, tested for fit & seal, with fresh filters (still sealed in their original packaging, they only have a limited life span once removed), would be a better investment.
Kharn
"... With respect to bugout from a large metro area: ......"
All the more reason to live away from such areas.
I guess there's some benefit to disliking towns and large amounts of people, other than the quiet, almost total lack of violent crime, friendly neighbors, and room to camp, roam, and shoot.
All the more reason to live away from such areas.
I guess there's some benefit to disliking towns and large amounts of people, other than the quiet, almost total lack of violent crime, friendly neighbors, and room to camp, roam, and shoot.
AStone
Member
Funny you mention that, Malamute. For the last six months, I have been planning to move to a larger city nearby for business reasons, and because a lot of my friends are there. I spent two months there during summer looking for a suitable (and affordable) business space. (I have some rather specialized needs in terms of floor plans, location and such.) I found none.
Maybe that was the universe speaking to me saying, "Don't do it." Now, after watching Ms. Katrina & Ms. Rita, and the madness that large scale catastrophe visits upon cities filled with the underprepared, I'm seriously reconsidering my plans. This smaller city is looking better every day. (Actually, I'd rather be in a small town or even the country, but if I'm going to earn a living until the SHTF, I need at least a small city.
".... but if I'm going to earn a living until the SHTF, I need at least a small city....."
Indeed, this is the question in rural or less populated areas. Many that move to this area take a large pay cut, but feel the somewhat lower cost of living, freedom of the large amounts of public land, good hunting or trout fishing, good horse country, low crime rates, etc, make up for the actual pay difference. The old "quality of life" question. A certain level of pay does not always equal happiness or freedom. Sometimes, less is more.
Unless one prescribes to "TEOTWAWKI" theory (which I don't), we will also have to make a living after SHTF. I see it more as a temporary situation that we will deal with, come through and pick up where we left off whenever possible. SHTF could be a wide spectrum of situations, from something that happens personally to one person*, a few, or a large area, such as NO or the Texas coast. I like the rural areas in this sense also, as most folks here will be interested in getting the ball rolling again if anything happens on a wider scale. The tales of the Great Depression from the mountainstates tell us that most folks didn't have much cash money, but most had enough to eat.
* I get the feeling reading some threads that some peoples definition of SHTF only means something that is widespread mayhem and disorder, will involve a lot of shooting, and high firepower is the only answer. I see it as any situaion that comes up that can be described as an emergency that we have to deal with. For someone in NO or the Texas coast, it can mean just getting away without running out of gas to somewhere outside the storm area. It appears from the info we have so far, that the comparitively few that used arms to deal with problems while this was all going on, it seems about any gun was adequet for the job of repelling actual or potentiial looters or thugs. I guess my point is, I feel some way overemphasive certain things, and miss some others in considering SHTF situations. To someone whose house has caught fire, they have just come face to face with a serious SHTF situation, and a gun isn't going to put out the fire. To someone whose vehicle has broken down in a remote place inthe desert, and they don't have supplies enough, or communicaton for remote areas, is also facing a serious SHTF event, and firepower isn't going to get one out of it either. Just a thought to be a bit more broad minded in thinking of the term SHTF.
Indeed, this is the question in rural or less populated areas. Many that move to this area take a large pay cut, but feel the somewhat lower cost of living, freedom of the large amounts of public land, good hunting or trout fishing, good horse country, low crime rates, etc, make up for the actual pay difference. The old "quality of life" question. A certain level of pay does not always equal happiness or freedom. Sometimes, less is more.
Unless one prescribes to "TEOTWAWKI" theory (which I don't), we will also have to make a living after SHTF. I see it more as a temporary situation that we will deal with, come through and pick up where we left off whenever possible. SHTF could be a wide spectrum of situations, from something that happens personally to one person*, a few, or a large area, such as NO or the Texas coast. I like the rural areas in this sense also, as most folks here will be interested in getting the ball rolling again if anything happens on a wider scale. The tales of the Great Depression from the mountainstates tell us that most folks didn't have much cash money, but most had enough to eat.
* I get the feeling reading some threads that some peoples definition of SHTF only means something that is widespread mayhem and disorder, will involve a lot of shooting, and high firepower is the only answer. I see it as any situaion that comes up that can be described as an emergency that we have to deal with. For someone in NO or the Texas coast, it can mean just getting away without running out of gas to somewhere outside the storm area. It appears from the info we have so far, that the comparitively few that used arms to deal with problems while this was all going on, it seems about any gun was adequet for the job of repelling actual or potentiial looters or thugs. I guess my point is, I feel some way overemphasive certain things, and miss some others in considering SHTF situations. To someone whose house has caught fire, they have just come face to face with a serious SHTF situation, and a gun isn't going to put out the fire. To someone whose vehicle has broken down in a remote place inthe desert, and they don't have supplies enough, or communicaton for remote areas, is also facing a serious SHTF event, and firepower isn't going to get one out of it either. Just a thought to be a bit more broad minded in thinking of the term SHTF.
hangemhigh87
Member
bug out, trapped, worth your job?
Looking at the news, I'm wondering why everyone decided to leave Houston all at once. (Relatively speaking..)
I suspect most people’s employers would not "suspend operations", unless the local government told them too. As in: evacuate..
That means if you choose to "bug out" a day or two early, you either take vacation, call in sick, or flat don't show up to your job and run the risk of unemployment upon your return.
The same goes for your spouse. I work for Boeing, and they closed up shop in Houston a few days ago. I don't know if they were ahead of the curve or not...
Of course, if you're a business owner, you have a different set of issues.
We are all learning by observation from what's happened in N.O. and Houston. The issue of gasoline supply along evacuation routes was an eye opener to me!
I live in suburban Seattle so escape routes out of town are fixed. I'm 32, single, and own a Toyota Corolla so gas won't be a problem. I have a bug out location 200 miles away. (Mom/Dad)
To be truly prepared, you have to be in prepared to bug out 24-48 hours AHEAD of the crowd. That includes squaring it with your boss. I don't have kids so school is an unknown dimension.
The bug out box needs to include important documents as well as cash in no greater than $20 denominations. The check book is useless. Keep a virgin Credit card in your Kit, most agreed!
I have not mentioned guns once in this post. (howed that happen?)
Just been watching people stuck on the Freeway peeing in the median in 100 degree Texas heat. Yuck!
You attend the disaster with the guns you have, not the guns you want. So here's what’s available to me NOW.
Oly ARMS CAR -15, only one 30rd Mag. (opps!)
Beretta Vertec 9mm. 5 mags, some hi cap, some not-. No holster (opps again)
Got a nice range bag though..sigh..I know, lame.
I will have to leave my grampa's 22's behind.
The best literature I can muster is my 1982 ed. Boy Scout Manual.
Forget the skinning knife; I just have a can opener for fruit cocktail and Vienna Sausages.
How prepared is your wallet?
Rock on!
Bryan.
Looking at the news, I'm wondering why everyone decided to leave Houston all at once. (Relatively speaking..)
I suspect most people’s employers would not "suspend operations", unless the local government told them too. As in: evacuate..
That means if you choose to "bug out" a day or two early, you either take vacation, call in sick, or flat don't show up to your job and run the risk of unemployment upon your return.
The same goes for your spouse. I work for Boeing, and they closed up shop in Houston a few days ago. I don't know if they were ahead of the curve or not...
Of course, if you're a business owner, you have a different set of issues.
We are all learning by observation from what's happened in N.O. and Houston. The issue of gasoline supply along evacuation routes was an eye opener to me!
I live in suburban Seattle so escape routes out of town are fixed. I'm 32, single, and own a Toyota Corolla so gas won't be a problem. I have a bug out location 200 miles away. (Mom/Dad)
To be truly prepared, you have to be in prepared to bug out 24-48 hours AHEAD of the crowd. That includes squaring it with your boss. I don't have kids so school is an unknown dimension.
The bug out box needs to include important documents as well as cash in no greater than $20 denominations. The check book is useless. Keep a virgin Credit card in your Kit, most agreed!
I have not mentioned guns once in this post. (howed that happen?)
Just been watching people stuck on the Freeway peeing in the median in 100 degree Texas heat. Yuck!
You attend the disaster with the guns you have, not the guns you want. So here's what’s available to me NOW.
Oly ARMS CAR -15, only one 30rd Mag. (opps!)
Beretta Vertec 9mm. 5 mags, some hi cap, some not-. No holster (opps again)
Got a nice range bag though..sigh..I know, lame.
I will have to leave my grampa's 22's behind.
The best literature I can muster is my 1982 ed. Boy Scout Manual.
Forget the skinning knife; I just have a can opener for fruit cocktail and Vienna Sausages.
How prepared is your wallet?
Rock on!
Bryan.
AZLibertarian,
You said, "One item I've added to our kit is a set of high-end painter's masks. Our concern was to get as much chem/bio protection for the buck..."
Unfortunately you've wasted the $25-$30 you spent to get chem/bio protection. The N-95 particulate masks provide some bio (I assume that you mean weaponized biological agent) protection, but absolutely no chemical exposure protection beyond dusts. In additon, these masks are not fitted to you or the other users you intended them for so their effectiveness for the particulates they are capable of filtering is unknown. Regardless of this, with no fit testing of the respirator you can on average expect a N-95 mask to reduce the particulates inhaled by a meager 66%. With fit testing, at best the N-95 mask is expected to filter 99% of the particulates in the air.
Don't feel too bad. More people in this country have wasted more money on respirators than just about any disaster preparedness product. Respirator selection and usage is a moderately complex topic and without good information or training you can't be expected to intentionally select the proper respirator.
Malamute,
Good observations. The old phrase "When all you have is a hammer all problems look like nails" comes to mind. I think one of the real lessons for people here to be gotten from hurricanes Katrina/Rita is that the gun is not always the solution to the problems you will face in a SHTF situation. Knowledge is.
Know what the problem is. Many people just didn't understand what they might be facing and therefore had no way to prepare effectively.
Know what you need to go or stay. We've seen 1,000 rounds of ammo is no substitute for 10 gallons of water or fuel. (of course, 10 gallons of fuel can be no substitute for 10 rounds of ammo at times)
Know when the last practical moment to decide to go or stay is. We thought folks in NOLA were nuts for waiting so late to move and now Rita has shown us that even 24 hours isn't enough lead time.
Know where to go or stay. With thousands of other people on the move highways are the only routes that many people know so they all crowd onto them eventually jamming them and bringing the entire exodus to a halt. Toss in the occasional wreck and you've turned a 2 hour trip into a 20 hour nightmare. Those with local knowledge, or even a good map, are prepared to get off the highway and take smaller, unclogged, roads where fuel might be available or even a bed in a storm shelter while others huddle in their vehicles waiting to the wind and rain to get worse.
You said, "One item I've added to our kit is a set of high-end painter's masks. Our concern was to get as much chem/bio protection for the buck..."
Unfortunately you've wasted the $25-$30 you spent to get chem/bio protection. The N-95 particulate masks provide some bio (I assume that you mean weaponized biological agent) protection, but absolutely no chemical exposure protection beyond dusts. In additon, these masks are not fitted to you or the other users you intended them for so their effectiveness for the particulates they are capable of filtering is unknown. Regardless of this, with no fit testing of the respirator you can on average expect a N-95 mask to reduce the particulates inhaled by a meager 66%. With fit testing, at best the N-95 mask is expected to filter 99% of the particulates in the air.
Don't feel too bad. More people in this country have wasted more money on respirators than just about any disaster preparedness product. Respirator selection and usage is a moderately complex topic and without good information or training you can't be expected to intentionally select the proper respirator.
Malamute,
Good observations. The old phrase "When all you have is a hammer all problems look like nails" comes to mind. I think one of the real lessons for people here to be gotten from hurricanes Katrina/Rita is that the gun is not always the solution to the problems you will face in a SHTF situation. Knowledge is.
Know what the problem is. Many people just didn't understand what they might be facing and therefore had no way to prepare effectively.
Know what you need to go or stay. We've seen 1,000 rounds of ammo is no substitute for 10 gallons of water or fuel. (of course, 10 gallons of fuel can be no substitute for 10 rounds of ammo at times)
Know when the last practical moment to decide to go or stay is. We thought folks in NOLA were nuts for waiting so late to move and now Rita has shown us that even 24 hours isn't enough lead time.
Know where to go or stay. With thousands of other people on the move highways are the only routes that many people know so they all crowd onto them eventually jamming them and bringing the entire exodus to a halt. Toss in the occasional wreck and you've turned a 2 hour trip into a 20 hour nightmare. Those with local knowledge, or even a good map, are prepared to get off the highway and take smaller, unclogged, roads where fuel might be available or even a bed in a storm shelter while others huddle in their vehicles waiting to the wind and rain to get worse.
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keeping your fuel tank always above the half tank mark, is perhaps the simplest, most cost effective thing any of us can do to prepare for an emergency. Keeping even a couple of 5 gallon cans at home could also save a terrific amount of headache and trouble, but it probably isn't a good idea to allow the fuel tank to run down because you know you have some at home. You may not be able to get home when the moment comes to leave. I wonder how many of the people attempting to leave NO or the Texas coast thought 'I'll get gas tomorrow" the day before they had to leave.
Keeping the tank topped off is something often recomended in the mountain areas in winter, in case of being stuck on the road, or weathered in, and is a good idea for everyone at all times considering what we have seen regarding fuel availabilty in the gulf coast.
Keeping the tank topped off is something often recomended in the mountain areas in winter, in case of being stuck on the road, or weathered in, and is a good idea for everyone at all times considering what we have seen regarding fuel availabilty in the gulf coast.
AZLibertarian
Member
Yeah, I understand all that. One could go all nuts about the chem/bio threat and outfit the whole family with current generation (or as close as is available) military equipment (and all the requisite training) and end up spending a bunch of money and time on something you're likely never to use. I look back at much of the mil-surp stuff that was floating around during the lead-up to Y2K and, IM(uneducated)O, most of it was junk that someone was passing off as worthwhile. It may allow you to feel somewhat more protected than someone completely unprepared, but when it comes down to it, there probably isn't much there. When looking at mil-surp, I always have to keep in mind that this stuff is surplus for a reason.
With regard to my meager N95 masks and their ability to protect from chem/bio, here's my thinking....A chem/bio attack in a military sense is meant to delay an approaching army, or at least make it approach from a direction more favorable to the user of the chem/bio weapon. In and of itself, it won't prevent the eventual military clash. From a civilian point of view (and here I'm thinking about a terror use), however, there's really not much you can do. Not many of us are going to go about our daily civilian lives with Chem/Bio equipment within arms reach 24/7. So, you're either going to be hit directly with the weapon and die, or you're not. However, I think that the panic resulting among the civilian survivors of a chem/bio attack will kill at least as many as the attack itself. With all this in mind, I decided I wanted a little something (my N-95 masks), but not full-scale military preparations. I don't, in any way, pretend that these masks are going to protect me from a direct attack.
While most of this thread is devoted to thinking about how to avoid being under-prepared, I also think one can be over-prepared: Case in point--Preacherman's friends with big bug-out vehicles. I have tried, within reason, to make myself flexibly prepared. This thread has given me much to think about improving my preparations; However, I think taking every suggestion would be overkill. Every one of us has unique circumstances (Numbers, ages, health and proximity of family members; vehicle needs; distance and time to your BO location; climate, demographic and topographic challenges; etc., etc., etc.). Even if we could eliminate all these differences, each of us might come up with unique solutions to these problems. In short--To each, his own.
MALAMUTE- good post about rural areas and the practical qualitys of the residents. I have always noticed that as one gets further back into the "sticks", that there are less specialists to be found, and more "generalists"-folks who can handle a multitude of practical tasks.
Jeff Timm
Member
I was impressed with a radio report that one family left late, avoided the Interstates and nearby highways, and made it from Houston to Dallas in 5 1/2 hours. GPS and a detailed map.
Geoff
Who has an adaptable, portable GPS on the Shopping List. Garmin Quest GPS unit 90 % automobile, 10 % foot mobile. $400 with Disk of whole nation, you get to pick 3 or 4 states to load at a time, plus the entire Interstate system and nearby roads built in.
Geoff
Who has an adaptable, portable GPS on the Shopping List. Garmin Quest GPS unit 90 % automobile, 10 % foot mobile. $400 with Disk of whole nation, you get to pick 3 or 4 states to load at a time, plus the entire Interstate system and nearby roads built in.
AZLibertarian
Member
Me, too. This post (Ms. Dorman's update) had me also adding a GPS unit and the mapping software to my wish-list. I was also interested in her report that a DPS officer had closed a road with no explanation offered. Not that an officer has to answer "Why?" a thousand times to enforce a valid closure, but that it appears (perhaps only to me) that there was no reason for it. After this incident , I guess I'm somewhat suspicious of LEO-enforced road closures. I'm sure that 98% of the time there will be a valid, safety-related reason for it (bridge out, for instance), but it may simply come down to a mayor or police chief deciding that he doesn't want big-city riff-raff all over the town buying up "their" supplies of gas and what-not.
Joe Mamma
Member
"After this incident , I guess I'm somewhat suspicious of LEO-enforced road closures."
After Katrina, you should be suspicious of anything "law enforcement" does . . .
Joe Mamma
After Katrina, you should be suspicious of anything "law enforcement" does . . .
Joe Mamma
Cosmoline
Member
New on CNN--several groups of dogs have apparently been found slaughtered with law enforcement issue tactical 12 ga. and 9mm rounds. Some of the dogs were killed right below a "please do not kill our dogs--we're coming back" sign.
Apes with badges, man.
Apes with badges, man.
AStone
Member
Ha. I've been thinking about that, too.Torpid said:
Assuming they have their eyes open (unreasonable assumption), the people on the gulf coast can see their disaster coming for several days.
For those of us here on the west coast, as for the big natural disasters, we only know about it when the earth starts shaking violently. (No hurrircanes for us over here.)
At least I don't have an issue with notifying my boss. Being self-employed, I AM my boss.
AStone
Member
+1.malamute said:
I'd add the following to that list. (OMG, is this becoming a BOB thread? Naw.)
1) Water (minimum 2 liters per person per day for drinking & cooking; more if you want to keep clean)
2) Food for three days (which will last six if it must);
heavy on the carbs, with enough fats & protein to keep you sane and happy.
3) Rain gear & extra layers (wool; polyester fleece...), appropriate for the season, updated monthly
4) Sleeping bags (for those cold nights) & tent (if you plan to sleep outside, since Motel 6, Holliday Inn & Travel Lodge will have "no vacancy" during a SHTF event).
5) Other items normally carried in my backpack for a 4 day trip: first aid kit, flashlight, hats, gloves, cooking stove, pots, utensils, water filter, some cord ...
6) Weaponry as space allows, to protect against theft of 1-5 (accompanied by bodily harm) by those threatened by natural selection who don't have 1-4.
For me, said weaponry consists of Kahr K9 + (soon) Rem 870P + appropriate rnds.
{Wish list, coming in Nov: Ruger GP-100 .357.}
biere
Member
I knew I should have checked this forum more often. 8 pages takes a bit to read.
On boots, I used to fit redwing but am looking into danner now since my last redwings are not boots I would like to have to live in every day of every week. There are other brands, but I trust the high end versions of both these brands. And insoles do matter, so do extra shoe laces but paracord has been mentioned so I expect everyone will have lots of extra cord for spare shoe laces.
On the glasses comments, in some of the stuff I saw I could actually see me wanting goggles or something when in deep water since I don't want that nasty stuff near my eyes. Having some good eye drops for lubricating your eyes may also be useful, I have eye problems and while they are now under control I am paranoid about keeping both eyes in good shape since the alternative sucks. So for those with normal vision some safety glasses or goggles may be useful. I have sunglasses I always have with me as well, they are plastic lenses and are rated as safety glasses as well.
On knives, while walmart may be the end of the world for some folks they have some decent stuff at silly prices. I like cheap straight blades for my bob since I don't want something that folds unless it is a swiss army knife or multitool. Wally world has a small winchester brand straight blade for normally 9 dolalrs and something and it is stainless steel and has a nylong sheath. It may lose its wood handles if you keep it wet but it is easily wrapped with paracord if you remove the wood handles like I did. I also have some diamond stones for sharpening, I figure I could barter sharpening things for a lot of stuff.
One thing to consider for kids or others while driving or trying to sleep in a noisy traffic jam is some hearing protection. I have some electronic ear muffs that also amplify sound except for when they shut down for noises over a certain decibel level. That extra hearing protection might be nice as well.
My clothes are basic and easily washed in any temp water or if I have to give me a pot of hot water off a camp fire and I will wash them by hand. Sorta clean clothes are better than nothing.
On some of the books and first aid stuff mentioned I sure as heck would try and use some of the stuff and as others have mentioned don't worry about having stuff you don't know how to use. Just starting a fire with flint and steel on a dark and damp and windy night will make you wonder why you did not pack a lighter and a can of hair spray.
One thing to keep in mind on trying to syphon gas from newer vehicles is that there is generally a screen or blockage that won't let you syphon gas from them. Most of today's new gas tanks are plastic so the common practice is now to poke a hole in the bottom of the tank. This is a very expensive repair so I recomend you protect your vehicle against it.
And really I think a good general concept to keep in mind if you have all this stuff is to really work hard to keep it under your control and protected.
On traveling with big vehicles and maybe trailers I would keep in mind that in some towns the hardest vehicle to drive can be a long straight truck when compared with a smallish semi-truck and a trailer. Now it can vary by driver skill and obstacle, but that hinge on a semi-truck and trailer combo lets you do some things you can't do with a straight truck.
For general vehicles like a little pickup vs. a fullsize I think I would take a fullsize crew cab over an extended cab toyota and a big trailer. By big trailer I mean one that maxes out the legal weight rating for that toyota. My reason for saying this is that big truck while long and with a low break over angle can handle driving over a curb better than some trailers I have seen. But this again depends on your area and driving skills and what you want to take with you. I am planning to get a motorcycle to take with my big crew cab truck. If things get bad the truck gets parked somewhere out of the way and I go forward with the motorcycle.
I really appreciate this post and I am amazed at how well you dealt with all the people who showed up. And I don't mean having the money and supplies, I only hope my mental state remains sort of calm if so many came to "visit".
On boots, I used to fit redwing but am looking into danner now since my last redwings are not boots I would like to have to live in every day of every week. There are other brands, but I trust the high end versions of both these brands. And insoles do matter, so do extra shoe laces but paracord has been mentioned so I expect everyone will have lots of extra cord for spare shoe laces.
On the glasses comments, in some of the stuff I saw I could actually see me wanting goggles or something when in deep water since I don't want that nasty stuff near my eyes. Having some good eye drops for lubricating your eyes may also be useful, I have eye problems and while they are now under control I am paranoid about keeping both eyes in good shape since the alternative sucks. So for those with normal vision some safety glasses or goggles may be useful. I have sunglasses I always have with me as well, they are plastic lenses and are rated as safety glasses as well.
On knives, while walmart may be the end of the world for some folks they have some decent stuff at silly prices. I like cheap straight blades for my bob since I don't want something that folds unless it is a swiss army knife or multitool. Wally world has a small winchester brand straight blade for normally 9 dolalrs and something and it is stainless steel and has a nylong sheath. It may lose its wood handles if you keep it wet but it is easily wrapped with paracord if you remove the wood handles like I did. I also have some diamond stones for sharpening, I figure I could barter sharpening things for a lot of stuff.
One thing to consider for kids or others while driving or trying to sleep in a noisy traffic jam is some hearing protection. I have some electronic ear muffs that also amplify sound except for when they shut down for noises over a certain decibel level. That extra hearing protection might be nice as well.
My clothes are basic and easily washed in any temp water or if I have to give me a pot of hot water off a camp fire and I will wash them by hand. Sorta clean clothes are better than nothing.
On some of the books and first aid stuff mentioned I sure as heck would try and use some of the stuff and as others have mentioned don't worry about having stuff you don't know how to use. Just starting a fire with flint and steel on a dark and damp and windy night will make you wonder why you did not pack a lighter and a can of hair spray.
One thing to keep in mind on trying to syphon gas from newer vehicles is that there is generally a screen or blockage that won't let you syphon gas from them. Most of today's new gas tanks are plastic so the common practice is now to poke a hole in the bottom of the tank. This is a very expensive repair so I recomend you protect your vehicle against it.
And really I think a good general concept to keep in mind if you have all this stuff is to really work hard to keep it under your control and protected.
On traveling with big vehicles and maybe trailers I would keep in mind that in some towns the hardest vehicle to drive can be a long straight truck when compared with a smallish semi-truck and a trailer. Now it can vary by driver skill and obstacle, but that hinge on a semi-truck and trailer combo lets you do some things you can't do with a straight truck.
For general vehicles like a little pickup vs. a fullsize I think I would take a fullsize crew cab over an extended cab toyota and a big trailer. By big trailer I mean one that maxes out the legal weight rating for that toyota. My reason for saying this is that big truck while long and with a low break over angle can handle driving over a curb better than some trailers I have seen. But this again depends on your area and driving skills and what you want to take with you. I am planning to get a motorcycle to take with my big crew cab truck. If things get bad the truck gets parked somewhere out of the way and I go forward with the motorcycle.
I really appreciate this post and I am amazed at how well you dealt with all the people who showed up. And I don't mean having the money and supplies, I only hope my mental state remains sort of calm if so many came to "visit".
Dave Markowitz
Member
For a good cheap knife, check out the Swedish Mora Knives. They are available from (among other places) Ragweed Forge and Smoky Mountain Knifeworks. I've got one from each. These are great knives, take a fine edge, and are well under $20 each. Highly recommended.
mitchshrader
Member
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2005
- Messages
- 56
it's obvious that
many people have unique needs, and perspectives, that could contribute to a community. there are, however, too many 'good ideas' for one person to try them ALL ..
the ideal (IMO) survival scheme is FLEXIBLE.
maps/GPS doesn't help you if roads are (un)officially blocked by locals.
huge rolling condos don't help if the highway you're using is logjammed.
80 lb BOB won't help if you are physically unfit to trek with it..
One of the most sensible suggestions was 'national bank' ..
VERY smart, isn't dependent on a single regions infrastructure.
Small 'everyday, everywhere' kits are worth building (don't just go BUY one, lord a mercy) if Only for the practice at considering needs. It's good training.
BOOTS. how can you be wrong with good boots?
CONCEAL ASSETS. CHOOSE COMPANIONS IN ADVANCE.
Don't have pets.
Don't demand foresight from the unwilling.
Don't expect reason from the frightened.
Don't expect honor from the government, much LESS efficiency.
Remember humans are omnivores, in a survival situation you are FOOD. Act like it, and you'll be treated like it.
Guns are emergency tools. So are tactical lights, night vision goggles, supressors, and 'gun toys' ..
Do NOT EXPECT TO LIVE ON EMERGENCY TOOLS.
What about your 'real life'.. Eating, sleeping, socializing, entertainment.. the things you do instead of infinite boredom. CAN you tolerate long hours of not much? A hobby, (knitting comes to mind) some mild distraction that is low energy consumption.
Batteries fail. Gas tanks run dry. Food supplies get eaten, or abandoned when relocation is necessary. Don't count on your plan fitting the situation. It won't. BE FLEXIBLE.
Have a backup, an alternative, a chosen 'Plan B' .. in advance.
Always try for 'good enough' quality, instead of 'best' quality. If you have the luxury of the very best, relocate NOW to a low stress, low risk enviornment.
Have a comprehensive philosophy. Decide what exactly is most important. Hint: It's not 'stuff'. it's people.
Pick the people. Don't take random..
NEVER give up control of your destiny. NEVER. Camps, disarming, forced relocation, .. the examples are endless. Civic duty is fine for citizens. When you're not given that choice, don't play by those rules.
not nearly all the rant i could spew, but heck, it's a start.
many people have unique needs, and perspectives, that could contribute to a community. there are, however, too many 'good ideas' for one person to try them ALL ..
the ideal (IMO) survival scheme is FLEXIBLE.
maps/GPS doesn't help you if roads are (un)officially blocked by locals.
huge rolling condos don't help if the highway you're using is logjammed.
80 lb BOB won't help if you are physically unfit to trek with it..
One of the most sensible suggestions was 'national bank' ..
VERY smart, isn't dependent on a single regions infrastructure.
Small 'everyday, everywhere' kits are worth building (don't just go BUY one, lord a mercy) if Only for the practice at considering needs. It's good training.
BOOTS. how can you be wrong with good boots?
CONCEAL ASSETS. CHOOSE COMPANIONS IN ADVANCE.
Don't have pets.
Don't demand foresight from the unwilling.
Don't expect reason from the frightened.
Don't expect honor from the government, much LESS efficiency.
Remember humans are omnivores, in a survival situation you are FOOD. Act like it, and you'll be treated like it.
Guns are emergency tools. So are tactical lights, night vision goggles, supressors, and 'gun toys' ..
Do NOT EXPECT TO LIVE ON EMERGENCY TOOLS.
What about your 'real life'.. Eating, sleeping, socializing, entertainment.. the things you do instead of infinite boredom. CAN you tolerate long hours of not much? A hobby, (knitting comes to mind) some mild distraction that is low energy consumption.
Batteries fail. Gas tanks run dry. Food supplies get eaten, or abandoned when relocation is necessary. Don't count on your plan fitting the situation. It won't. BE FLEXIBLE.
Have a backup, an alternative, a chosen 'Plan B' .. in advance.
Always try for 'good enough' quality, instead of 'best' quality. If you have the luxury of the very best, relocate NOW to a low stress, low risk enviornment.
Have a comprehensive philosophy. Decide what exactly is most important. Hint: It's not 'stuff'. it's people.
Pick the people. Don't take random..
NEVER give up control of your destiny. NEVER. Camps, disarming, forced relocation, .. the examples are endless. Civic duty is fine for citizens. When you're not given that choice, don't play by those rules.
not nearly all the rant i could spew, but heck, it's a start.
Highland Ranger
Member
Rather than reading the whole 8 pages, maybe we could categorize and summarize into one list?
AStone
Member
survival primer
If only I weren't so busy right now , I'd jump in and enjoy the challenge.
Maybe later...
There is indeed a wealth of ideas in this and related threads. I can almost invision a succinct primer in here with several chapters relating to flexibility & different strategies.Highland Ranger said:
If only I weren't so busy right now
, I'd jump in and enjoy the challenge. Maybe later...
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