Let there be light.

[AStone]

Let's devote this thread to 'EDC tactical' lights.

By 'EDC tactical', I'm not suggesting what a mall ninja would use -
mall ninjas in this thread will be swiftly dispatched by mods -
but a small flashlight that can be used for both SD & EDC.

I'm seeking to buy one that will serve first, and foremost, for SD,
meaning a fast burst of high-intensity light to a perp's retinas -
and with a small amount of work, if 'threat' isn't pertinent,
it can quickly (w/in 2 sec) transition into an EDC light.

I now understand that requires 2 lumen settings.
For me, that's in the range
80 to 5 lumens.

Click a first time, get 80, enough to blind.
Click a second time, get 5 lumens,
good to cook or read a book.

My top choice currently is the Surefire E1B Backup.

I've looked at the G2.
Nice, inexpensive, gets the job done,
but plastic and only one lumen setting.

I've looked at the E2D Defender in various configurations, too.
I don't need 200 lumens, and desire to go small,
as in 1 battery and lightweight.

I'm not convinced that a flashlight with crenelations
will protect me as well as guns, sticks or knives (see sig line),
so I'm not concerned with its diminutive size.

But, I'm open to suggestions.
No, wait, I'm seeking suggestions.

It's been said in various reviews that once other makers get the idea,
Surefire's contributions will be seen as overpriced.

Maybe. But they are innovators.
I'll pay extra for innovation. My life may be on the line today.
For those who have nine lives, wait for the clone.

OK, so my current favorite is the E1B.

What say you?

 

[Texas Gun Person]

I have really taken a liking to the products put out by 4Sevens.


A Quark Tactical would work well. I love all of mine. (I have three different tac models) Tighten the head all the way to access one mode with one click, and turn the head half a turn to access another mode. The Tacticals (not sure if all do) have 8 different modes, and you can choose any two to access at a given time.

Their Quark Mini's are also great! Single battery power. The CR2 powered lights are just 2 inches tall, and put out a whopping 180 lumens. The Mini AA is closer to the lumen you want.

None of my 4Sevens lights have given out on me yet, and I think the are very reasonably priced compared to some of the competition.


Quark Mini: http://www.4sevens.com/index.php?cPath=297_355

Quark Tacticals: http://www.4sevens.com/index.php?cPath=297_306


If you want to go pen size they also have the Preon I and Preon II. EVen these little pen lights have 7 different modes. Preon I maxes at 70 lumens. Preon II at 160.

http://www.4sevens.com/index.php?cPath=297_332_366

http://www.4sevens.com/index.php?cPath=297_332_367



I have a Preon II ordered that should be in my mailbox tomorrow.


My favorite that I have? Quark AA² Tactical. Even took it while diving in a river. Never went any deeper than 15 ft, but I stayed on the bottom the majority of the time, with my Quark in hand. I have other lights when diving, but I was curious to see how it would hold up to a river.

Maybe I'll take on out on a deeper dive some time just to see how deep it can go...

 

[AStone]

Thanks, TGP.
That's useful info.

I predict that this will be
an informative and fun thread.

 

[hso]

Nem,

We've had tons of threads on EDC and tac lights (they're not the same). An EDC has to be small enough to carry every day everywhere. Those lights don't qualify for "tactical" since they don't usually put out enough light to "blind" someone in low light settings. That usually takes a slightly to much larger flashlight that isn't 100% convenient to carry 100% of the time. Unless you're willing to wear a belt sheath for a smaller tactical light all the time, most people aren't actually willing to, you will have trouble pocket carrying a light with the output capable of blinding someone.

Surefire, Steamlight, Inova, Pelican, Fenix, Gerber, Coast and a world of other companies all make lights that serve in the two categories. Some are just big enough to make a fist load or kubaton and add to the defensive uses.

John is pretty much our flashlight guru and he has a wealth of advice that he's shared in the past here.

 

[AStone]

Thanks for your input, Hso.

Yes, I've been surfing those older light threads, but haven't found anything ... up to date yet, and nothing at all on that Surefire Backup - at least here on THR. The world of lights appears to be evolving very quickly now; the pace quickens.

I'll clarify what I mean by "blinding", also. That's really too strong a word. Perhaps I should say momentary disorientation, like a flashbulb going off that makes one lose a clear picture for a second.

When I walk at night in the city, and especially outside my studio in the industrial boonies here, I often have my little mini-mag light in my hand. Part of that is so that I can illuminate my path. But a bigger part is so that if accosted, I can flash the light ever so quickly into the eyes of a person, giving me just an extra second for ... drawing a weapon, running, blocking, whatever.

I think that something like the back up, or any other 70 to 80 lumen light that gives the bright light first (followed by low lumens on a second push) could be useful.

Maybe I'm wrong. I've already been wrong about stuff twice this year.

But that's my thinking, anyway. It's just a measure of confidence.

But as always, I'm listening.

I am hoping that John will chime in here and let his light wisdom shine through. (Sorry, couldn't resist the metaphor.)

In particular, I'm hoping that he and others can point (via some links) to some older threads worthy of reading on this topic.

So far, this one that was started last year has been most informative, but I know there are others.

 

[DAdams]

My Favorite

EDC light these days; actually for the last 120 days.

4Sevens Preon II. 160 lumens OTF.
I like the penlight format. Common battery (2) AAA. I am using Sanyo Eneloop rechargeables and getting good service.
It blows the Streamlight Stylus Pro away.

I bought the "kit" so I can convert it to (1) AAA.

The warm Cree (limited run neutral white) version can now be ordered at a 28% lumen reduction.
Nice for walks in the woods as it is a more "natural" light.

I have the following:

EagleTac (2) AA. Discontinued, nice light a bit big for EDC. 195 lumens. Ok in cargo pants.

Fenix LT1 V2.0. (1) AA. A bit low on the output by todays standard at 90 lumens but a nice single function clicky with momentary pulse.

Fenix TK10, A large light (relative) (2) CR123A 160 lumens. A bit dated now. Good life and a good camping light.

4Sevens Quark (2) CR123A Titanium Tactical LE Titanium 190 lumens.
Collectors Item and safe queen. This is the "Land Rover" of flashlights.

4Sevens Mini CR2 (1)CR2 180 lumens out of a damn small light. I wear it as a necklace light on a lanyard for an EDC backup sometimes.

4Sevens Preon II as discussed. Current EDC. I have it on a light lanyard next to my reading glasses. EDC is not just for life saving events as one ages.

If you decide to purchase any Fenix/4Sevens lights you can get a 8% discount using the Code CPF8 when filling out the order form.

The thing about 4Sevens is that they design the light from the ground up based on years of user experience. They also push the envelope in ouput, balanced against run-time using the latest Cree emitters. They also warranty their product for 10 years.

http://www.4sevens.com/index.php?cPath=297

 

[AStone]

Good to see you hear, DA. I'm checking out that Preon II now. I'm pretty sure I'll have some questions later, but a busy work day cometh now.

I also want to shine a little more light on my intentions here with respect to Hso's important point.

We've had tons of threads on EDC and tac lights (they're not the same).

My emphasis there.

I totally agree and understand that they're not the same.
I'm certainly no flashlight guru, but in researching this issue,
I'm coming quickly to understand the difference.

And of course, that same thing applies to my search for a folder (current sig line; blades): there's tactical, there's EDC, then there's stuff on the border that tries to be both, but can't do either perfectly, but still gets the job done well enough.

That's what I'm looking for here. I completely understand that "perfect" doesn't exist in this EDC + tactical light category, so I'm not looking for "perfect", just functionally good enough. Like the rest of my kit, it's going to be a compromise in order to carry less stuff.

I'm now in a mode of my life where I'm greatly reducing the amount of "stuff" I own and carry (see location) by around 80-90%. The reasons aren't relevant here; it's just the way it is. So, I'm back to seeking that optimal minimalist toolkit in which sometimes a standard claw hammer has to serve as both framing and finishing, and pulls duty as a crow bar.

It's also an intellectual exercise for me. I relish exploring options for all these tools,
looking for the combination of form and function on the edge between inadequate and good enough.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Nem

 

[DAdams]

BTW

An EDC has to be small enough to carry every day everywhere. Those lights don't qualify for "tactical" since they don't usually put out enough light to "blind" someone in low light settings.

I guarentee that today there are EDC size lights out there that will blind in low light settings.

Most people can't get off Surefire long enough to find and evaluate them though. That said they have come a long way and...
The E2D Defender at 200 lumens (question ratings) and (2)123A would qualify as an EDC albeit a little large. MSRP of $165 ouch.
Best I could find it for was $144.

OLight Warrior M20 at 250 lumens (2) 123A is a better value at $99.

http://www.4sevens.com/product_info.php?cPath=86&products_id=543

For cool factor...

http://www.4sevens.com/product_info.php?cPath=86&products_id=544

 

[hso]

candlepowerforums is where the true flashaholics hang out.

They're more focused on illuminating the world of flashlights than THR is about firearms, so much so that you can't even make light of their laser-like interest they're so intent in it.

You still haven't said whether this will become a belt carried EDC item or it will have to do pocket duty also. That makes a huge difference since a Surefire G2 or a Streamlight Scorpion won't carry in a front or back pocket successfully and unless you live in cargo pants so you can drop it in the saggy side pocket you'll have to limit your options.

 

[DAdams]

If you decide to purchase any Fenix/4Sevens lights you can get a 8% discount using the Code CPF8 when filling out the order form.

candlepowerforums is where the true flashaholics hang out.

The above code for the 8% discount "cpf8" = candlepowerforum

Isn't that the truth regarding flashaholics. The demographics there are single males between the age of 35-55 with an income of over 50K per year.

I get hung up there once in awhile and they are INTENSE and dedicated afficianados.

 

[DAdams]

Nem-

It's also an intellectual exercise for me. I relish exploring options for all these tools,
looking for the combination of form and function on the edge between inadequate and good enough.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Sure Do.

Let me know if you have questions on the Preon II. Stealth Black is what I have. I don't see the "kits" right now. They do some limited edition offers just to keep things interesting.

You can pre-order the "neutral white" Preon II good for a more natural lighting for outdoor use...for Doctors....sacrifices output though.

 

[AStone]

They're more focused on illuminating the world of flashlights than THR is about firearms, s
o much so that you can't even make light of their laser-like interest they're so intent in it.

I knew this was going to be a pun-tifically fun and informative thread.

... unless you live in cargo pants so you can drop it in the saggy side pocket you'll have to limit your options.

Thanks, also for your pm on this, Hso.

Yes, I literally do "live" in cargo pants. I wear one type of trousers only: Carhartt work trousers, the heavy duty ones with the little vertical side pockets down on the leg about the height of my hand at arms length. (I don't even own any other types of trousers, excepting rain pants.)

It's in one of those little side pockets that a light would probably ride (on left side probably), or in my left pocket. Never in the rear pockets though.

I'm also exploring options for a vest with tons of pockets since I'm a gadgetaholic - case for glasses, sunglasses, pen, note pad, light, small binocs, magnifying glass (yes, I have a fondness for looking at little things like bugs, mosses and lichens. Hey, I'm a biologist; what can I say?).

ABE (added by edit): this is the current top contender for a vest.

 

[shockwave]

The taclight I got here at THC custom made by a member is just right for the shotgun (50-100-200 lumens) and this Gerber Infinity Ultra is what I'm carrying around these days. Has a clip and you can add a lanyard. The Gerber is bright enough to cause discomfort to somebody up close, but the activation is "twist-type" and you'd want a button clicker for SD.

 

[hso]

Since I wear khakis 5 days a week I'm restricted as to what I can practically carry all the time, but if you wear Carhartt cargo pants then you have a built in carry pocket for anything like a G2 size flashlight.

Since you want it for SD purposes you have to have a clicker switch instead of a twist on. After that it's a question of price and durability as a striking tool. Avoid the strike face crenelated bezel flashlights.

 

[AStone]

^ 'Xactly.

I love those pockets.

I anticipate living much of my life outdoors in coming years,
both professionally and personally. Those pants suit that niche well.

Add a vest like this (that I linked into post 12 after you read it),
and I'm going to have no shortage of pockets.

 

[Phydeaux642]

Well, this certainly wouldn't fit in the tac light genre, but it is my EDC light. It is the Maratac AAA light found at www.countycomm.com. It uses one easily found AAA battery and has three output settings - 1.5lm, 18lm and 80lm. It's around my neck most of the time and I use it a lot. While not being tactical it could definitely ease your gadgetaholic urges a bit.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

My approach is to keep things simple. I want a light that has one power setting. I've done some low light training. I have found that even with some mild pressure in a training class situation, I can't manipulate two different light settings and it always seems like the wrong thing turns on. I suspect if it's for real, this will be impossible. Thus, I'd rather have just one setting. If it's at 60+ lumens, I'm happy. For my pistol and long arms that are for self defense, I have dedicated mounted weapons lights (and for the pistol I have a Bladetech holster that works with the light mounted on the pistol). Training has made it clear to me it is much easier to operate things if the light is mounted to the weapon. Fortunately, I can afford it. I think you should also have back up weapon light. These are my thoughts and I only know what works for me.

 

[hso]

Sheepdog1968 makes a point we can generalize from. If part of your SD toolkit is a flashlight to temporarily blind a BG do you really think you'll be able to switch to SUPERNOVA if your fine motor skills have just been flushed away with adrenaline?

Perhaps the better solution is a small wayfinding general illumination flashlight and a separate "tactical" eyeburner with a clicker that you can access right away.

 

[AStone]

Hmm. I'm listening.

However, one thing that appeals about the E1B is that "bright" is the first click. To get to "walk in the dark with low light" requires a second click.

Would that help assuage your concerns?

 

[hso]

What's the next click after "low" (the setting you'd be using to illuminate your path or your lock), "off"?, then another click to "bright".

No, the idea that there's anything between you and "My EYES!" makes me wonder about the defensive use of the light output of a flashlight.

The objective of multi output lights is primarily conservation of battery and lamp life. They go from dark to brightest with intermediate output because it's easy and most people will use the light at the lower settings.

A light that cycles from "off" to "bright" to "low" to "bright" to "off" by way of a clicker makes sense if you're going to use the photons coming from the light for SD, but no other multi output layout fits that role to my thinking.

 

[JShirley]

Hi, I'm John, and I'm a light geek.

Unlike many of the other light geeks, I'm NOT much of a fan of multi-setting, lights, unless BRIGHT! is the first setting, or (like the SureFire Aviator), you can instantly have either low or high, depending on how hard you press.

I prefer to have at least two lights, a task light, and a tac light. There's nothing wrong, and a lot right, with the E1B. At the same time, it's pretty expensive. There are a lot of good suggestions already offered in this thread.

I don't really believe in packing a "blinding" light. I do have maybe 4 SureFires, but I don't carry them. I do have one accessible if camping, and near the bed at home. I usually carry a LumaPower LM33, but this is not a "true" tac light, because it's a reverse clicky. I couple this light with an AA (Fenix or Gerber) or AAA (Nuwai, Fenix, etc) light and/or one of the many available keychain LEDs. (I ALWAYS use a colored keychain light to preserve night vision.)

 

[AStone]

Hi, I'm John, and I'm a light geek.

<laughs>

Yeah, I understand the draw. I'm trying to not get drawn in too deeply.

Good points about two lights. I may wind up that way, too. I may go with some simple EDC first, then add some tac thing later.

Gonna think on this for a few more days. Going to Portland soon, hoping there may be some shops up there to look at before buying, either there or online.

One thing I'm learning is, there are a lot of inexpensive ones out there in the $12 to $30 range. I'm assuming that as long as I stay with a good name, like Fenix, they should be ok.

 

[hso]

If you have a MinMag just get an LED with clicker tailcap conversion kit and save yourself some bucks OR you could do your own MiniMag hack.

 

[JShirley]

True enough, but there are lots of quality AA pushbutton lights now available. It might be more cost-effective to just get one of them, and they're no further away than Target or WalMart.

 

[hso]

I agree with John on this as well. I've been amazed at the quality that you can find at Target and Walmart for $20 in an aluminum body LED AA flashlight.