Let tjh flame wars begin

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hdwhit

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As mentioned in other posts, about a year ago, I received, as a gift, about 100 rounds of 9mm Parabellum brass. This was subsequently followed by more brass until I had 991 rounds. Since it seemed a waste to just throw this in the recycling bin and nobody that I knew reloaded, I decided to reload it myself. I also bought a 9mm pistol in which to shoot the reloaded ammunition.

Figuring that I would not long be involved in reloading the cartridge, I bought a 3-die set of reloading dies from a company that was a Lee "Master Reseller" and set to work. I had bought and used Lee "Speed Dies" (no longer made) for .39 Special and .45 ACP with good results, so I had high hopes for the 9mm Lee dies.

I set the dies up following the included instructions TO THE LETTER.

As noted in earlier posts, the Lee carbide resizing die often required extraordinary force to resize cases (even when they were lubricated) even though some were easily resized. This difficulty occurred regardless of whether I was using the Lee resizing lubricant, the RCBS resizing lubricant or Hornady Unique. The resizer also left vertical lines on the resized cases even after a through cleaning.

As noted in earlier posts, the Lee Powder-Through expander die either expanded the case so little that seating the bullet caused the case's sidewall to collapse or made the case mouth look like a Pilgrim's blunderbuss.

And as noted in earlier posts, no matter how carefully the bullet was aligned on the top of the case or how slowly the ram was raised, the Lee seater inevitably seated the bullet off-center leaving a bulge in one side of the case. Further, the sharp start of the crimp ring in the seating die regularly caused cases to hang up during the seating operation even though the die had been adjusted to not crimp the cases at all.

I worked on this for about six months and finally gave up. I bought a set of RCBS dies. All of the cases (so far) have all but "jumped" into the sizer which ran as smooth as silk with or without lubrication.

The expander dies allowed me to make changes in the diamter of the expanded case mouths at the rate 0.001 inch increments easily.

The seating die has a long throat to align the bullet with the precisely expanded case necks and allow the bullet to be seated without a bulge on one side of the case.

All in all, the problems with my 9mm reloads that I couldn't resolve by tinkering with my Lee dies were all fully resolved within the 30 minutes it took to set up my RCBS dies according to the instructions that came with them. The cases virtually "jumped into" the sizer die. The expander allowed adjustment in the amount of expansion within 0.001 inch and the cases didn't hang up on a sharp ridge at the start of the crimping throat.

I know the Lee enthusiasts are going to blame my problems with the Lee dies on my own incompetence. And that's fine. Despite nearly four decades experience reloading, I will accept that my problems are attributable to my own incompetence. But, when I accept that, the fact of the matter remains that in spite of that incompetence, I was able to set up dies from RCBS and resolve ALL of my problems within 30 minutes. Somehow, RCBS has developed a "fool proof" system for letting incompetents set up dies as accurately and precisely as experienced experts.

My only regret in all of this is that I didn't spend the extra $18 to get the RCBS dies in the first place.
 
I'm going to start reloading 9x18 soon so this info helps me. I will maybe consider the RCBS version of the mak dies over the Lee now, although I would need to buy a shell holder too...

-Safety is no accident, unless you accidentally leave the safety on when you intend to shoot.
 
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People who spend less will frequently accept poor quality because they're so excited about the low price. Then, when they spend a little more & get better quality, they learn (as you did) that they haven't saved any money at all; they spent more because they wasted money on the cheap product.

You'll find that (as with most things,) you get what you pay for. There is a reason Lee's loading equipment is cheaper....just as there is a reason a Charter Arms revolver is cheaper.
 
That's odd. Never had any trouble with any of the five calibers I reload with Lee dies. Did you get with Lee to see what they say about it? They have a reputation of replacing bad parts for folks, though I don't know that for a fact as I've not needed to do that.

I do run a little case lube into the sizer via the outside of the case every 25 rounds or so, but only with larger calibers (especially .45ACP)-- never needed to with 9x18 or .380. The powder-through does get sticky on the belling stroke, but only with new brass. I'm thinking tumbling the new brass first might help with that, but it hasn't been bad enough yet that I've bothered with that.

I've liked my experience with my Lee Turret well enough that I'm planning to move to one of their progressives next month-- probably a Load-Master. (Yes, I know there will likely be some setup tweaks necessary.)

Glad you found some dies you like, though.
 
I don't know, but I have loaded many thousands of rounds, at least 10, with Lee dies. Most of those 9mm. They never gave me much trouble. And my ammunition is top quality. For pistol rounds I can't see any benefit any spending more money on dies.

I also load 223, with Lee dies, but just for blasting away at whatever I see fit. I don't care about one hole at 200 yards or anything like that. Maybe the expensive dies have something to offer when used with precision rifle rounds?

Also, I believe that bullets seating "off center" or with a "bulge" is more of a brass issue, than a die problem. Try sorting your cases.
 
There is a reason Lee discontinued selling Speed Dies. As a new reloaded you wouldn't have known this. The dealer who sold them should have informed you. New reloaders frequently try to save money with out doing the necessary research and study and thus buy inappropriate purchases.
 
People who spend less will frequently accept poor quality because they're so excited about the low price.


Odd, I use a Lee die in my match ammo process. Does really well for its intended purpose. Gives very little runout and great accuracy at 600/1000yd (don't load much pistol ammo.) My point is, some Lee stuff is underrated IMHO.



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I've loaded thousands of rounds of 9mm on my Lee dies, never an issue. I also load .380, .357, .38, .44, .223, .243, 30-30 and 30-06
 
Funny, my lee dies make absolutely great ammo, winning me trophy after trophy in NRA bullseye matches.

It sounds like perhaps you are best suited to a different brand of equipment.
 
I reload all my calibers with Lee dies, 9MM, 38 special, 357 magnum, 45 ACP and 223. I don't shoot competition, but they have worked great for me. Tens of thousands of rounds loaded and shot.
 
I know the Lee enthusiasts are going to blame my problems with the Lee dies on my own incompetence. And that's fine. Despite nearly four decades experience reloading, I will accept that my problems are attributable to my own incompetence. But, when I accept that, the fact of the matter remains that in spite of that incompetence, I was able to set up dies from RCBS and resolve ALL of my problems within 30 minutes. Somehow, RCBS has developed a "fool proof" system for letting incompetents set up dies as accurately and precisely as experienced experts.

There are reasons that:

1. Lee only warranties their dies for, if I remember correctly, 2 years and
2. That Lee dies are less expensive than other brands.

What I have found is that Lee dies are OK most of the time and their Factory Crimp Die is an excellent product. I had my own Lee die problem recently. I was loading Accubonds over a compressed load of IMR 7828. I would seat the bullet and when the ram came down with the case, the bullet was left in the die. The problem was that the inside of the seating stem was very rough which caught the bullet fairly firmly when it was pushed hard over a compressed load. The problem was solved by chucking the seating stem in a drill and smoothing out the inside with some fine grit sand paper. If Lee had done the job right in the first place, no remedial action would have been needed.
 
I've had nothing but good luck with Lee dies, but I'm not going to flame you. Everybody tells me how great Hornady dies are but I've had nothing but trouble with them.
 
The only set of Lee dies I've had don't work.

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He is talking about Lee's old "SPEED DIES" and I hope not their current production.

Certainly there are better dies available but the Lee Speed Die is out of production and for good reasons
 
I guess if I followed your logic, I'd be shooting .380. 9mm, & .40, as I find tons of it at the range. You can always sell it to a gun shop or trade it at a gun show, you know.......

As for Lee vs. RCBS, I have both, and they both work fine. I do prefer RCBS, but Lee dies are OK.
 
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Its odd that I haven't had your same problems as I own quite a few Lee dies, even some complete sets as well.

In the end anyone's results except yours don't matter, only your results count when your having problems.
 
I have a lot of Lee dies, and a few RCBS sets too. Both are good for getting the respective job done that I purchased them for, but the lee stuff is kinda like an old Chevy, whereas the RCBS is more like a Lexus. Lee is basic, RCBS more refined. But not necessarily a LOT better, just nicer. Do your research for your specific application, every manufacturer has something unique to bring to the table...

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I have and use some Lee dies, but it took a set of RCBS dies to cure my .32 ACP problem. My favorite 9MM sizer is a Lee. I have scrapped all of their expanders, and most of their seaters. Lee dies work though. Any company can put out a bad die.
 
I've had a similar experience as the OP with new Lee dies. Bought my two boys LCPs for Christmas last year. Never loaded for .380 and because the little pistols are SD guns and not range toys, figuring shooting would be minimal as compared to our revolvers, I chose to save $20 and buy the Lee dies instead of RCBS like I regularly do. After only a few hundred reloads it was evident the Lee resizing die was not resizing correctly as I did not have to flare the cases at all(regardless of case manufacturer) to start bullets, and the bullets, even after using their FCD, were easily setback with minimal finger pressure. I contacted Lee directly concerned I may have a bad resizing die and was told this was a common occurrence with their dies in .380 and I needed to buy their .380 "undersized" sizing die, which cost almost as much as their complete .380 4 die set to correct "my" problem. Now that I have their "U" die, and I have to flare the cases, I have the same issue as the OP, either there is no flare or the cases look like a blunderbuss, and cases only have to have the slightest variance in length for this to happen, even in the same batch. Just yesterday loaded 100 rounds with brand new unfired brass and had issues, so it isn't a "mixed headstamp" problem. The included shell holder is also so sloppy that the case will sometimes cant in it when seating the bullet and is dented when entering the die at an angle. I too, like the OP wished I woulda bought RCBS in the first place. Again, since the .380s are a low volume endeavor for me, I'll continue to use them as with care and a little extra effort, I can still make acceptable ammo with them. For those that have had a positive experience with Lee dies, good for you. I have not.
 
I have many Lee dies but over the years have acquired Hornady and Redding. I favor the micrometer adjustable seating and crimping dies over the Lee ones. Some of the FCD's have been useful however.
 
for 47 dollars you can buy a rcbs rifle die set at brownells. that is less than the cost of two pounds of powder. if it's broke, fix it!

murf
 
I have the Lee dies in 9X18 Mak and have had no problems with them what so ever.
Also no issues with my Lee .32 S+W Long, .357, 9mm, .45, .223 or 7mm Rem Mag dies.
Maybe the OP just got a bad set that slipped thru QC.

Wondering if a support ticket was submitted to Lee to give them a chance to make things right?

My favorite 9MM sizer is a Lee.
I like my Lee size die much better than my Hornady one. The Hornady is a bit smoother but does not size tight.
Everybody tells me how great Hornady dies are but I've had nothing but trouble with them.
Sent the sizer back to Hornady as I felt it was not sizing tight enough, poor neck tension. They sent it back saying they polished it and it was fine. Still seems to not size as tight as the Lee die. Porr case neck tension on some brass.
(Brass is fine if run thru the Lee sizer)
 
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I load 9mm in 3750 round batches (case of MGB) with my Lee dies in a Hornady LNL progressive. I have Lee dies in at least 6 other pistol calibers.

Maybe someday I'll see these Lee issues come up. :)
 
I have 8 or 10 sets if Lee handgun dies and only had one problem. It was similar to the OPs problem, the powder through expander die would not flare the case in the 45 ACP die. I bought another one from Lee and it worked just fine. I could have probably gotten it replaced by Lee but for the price if the one die I didn't bother. It was also in sale lol. I wanted that die because it works well on my turret press and powder measure.

I do however use mostly RCBS dies for rifle loading along with a set from Hornady and 1 Lee set.

Everyone has their likes and dislikes. That is why so many companies offer reloading dies and sell enough I of them to keep making dies. As I go on I find myself buying replacement dies changing out a die I did not like that came in a set. (like a Lyman M Die)
 
Wondering if a support ticket was submitted to Lee to give them a chance to make things right?

When I contacted Lee, I was told I could send the die in on my dime and they would check and see if there was a problem, this was after they told me it was known to them, that their sizing die would not size all brass correctly. That was their way of making things right. So, it was either pay money to have them tell me their die was fine or spend money to get a die that would work right.....or both. I decided to just get the "U" die. Again, hindsight is 20/20. The "U" die works well and gives great neck tension. Somewhere, since it's a common brass issue and not an individual gun issue, Lee should make it known that it is probably gonna be needed and just offer a kit with it to start with. I now have more invested in a inferior die set than I would have if I would have bought RCBS at the start. The idea that I was saving money with Lee is gone.
 
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