Let's talk pinfires a a little

[Zaydok Allen]

Hello friends and neighbors,

Say I've just recently taken an interest in antique guns and I thought I'd post this in its own thread even though I threw it on the revolver pic thread.

I'd appreciate any info or possible sources of info anyone can give me on this. I recently bought this from a gent in West Virginia. I was told it is a English 9mm pinfire, from the 1850's or 60's most likely. The small dots on it are supposedly sterling silver , and I believe the brass colored inlay is in fact brass. I was told it was gold, but I doubt that. It is in working order but it looks to me as if it has had a bit of repair work. I may be wrong about that. A crown over the letter G is the only proof mark I can find that is located on the cylinder, and Google has not helped me much determining what that means as far as a manufacturer or year of manufacture goes.

If you are unfamiliar with the history of pinfires, take a look at this as it is a good read.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinfire_cartridge

Feel free to post pics of any pinfires you've collected.

 

[MartinS]

I can't give you any information on the thing but it looks impressive enough that learning about it would be worth doing. I've wondered, idly since I still wonder, just how reliable a pinfire revolver is. Rifles too. I'd say a bit of work went into your gun and I'll not stand in front of it.

 

[Mooseman]

assuming it's mechanically sound is there any way to get ammo for it?

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Well it indexes and locks up properly, but as far as being shoot able, I doubt it's a good idea. I have not found a source for ammo.

 

[celem]

Pinfire has recently re-interested me. See the following source regarding ammo:
http://www.hc-collection.com/Mobile/MBSCCatalog.asp?catid=335268

I say you re interested because when I was a kid there were these tiny little pinfire single shot pistols maybe only an inch and a half long and they shot tiny little pin fire blanks This would have been in the late 1950s. I had one and fondly recall shooting it.

 

[JRH6856]

Here's a place claiming to have ammo for sale. At the prices listed, it almost makes .22LR look affordable again.

 

[BobWright]

Had a magazine article awhile back outlining making and loading pinfire ammunition for an old French revolver. Interesting reading, and the thing fired!


As to orign, doubt that it is English, as they were using traditional cap-and-ball an early cartridges. (England was not bound by the Rollin White patents) The pinfire was popular with Frenc and Belgian gunmakers.

Bob Wright

 

[Zaydok Allen]

That's kind of what I've been wondering. All the pinfires I've seen have been French or Belgian, and the original design was by a French man.

Really, I'm just curious. I find the old archaic design fascinating since I love revolvers so much. I am slowly assembling a small collection of antique guns that will illustrate the progression of revolvers. And this is just a nice, working example.

I still need a working break top (maybe a Webley), a cap and ball (Colt), and a flint lock. I'll end it with my 460 magnum. From earliest designs forward to culmination.

 

[JRH6856]

Flintlock revolvers are rare, but there may be some out there.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Yeah, I have a feeling I can't afford one, but I can dream.

 

[Jim K]

The pinfire was known in England, but not popular, since English makers turned to center fire pretty early (1865), going directly from percussion to center-fire. They also pretty much bypassed the rimfire except for small bore.

I suspect a check of the cylinder of that gun will show an oval with the letters E L G, the Belgian proof mark.

Those were not bad guns; not to the taste of most Americans, they were reliable and reasonably powerful. In the U.S. Civil War, the Union bought some 11,200 12mm pinfire revolvers with 200,000 rounds of ammo, and purchased or contracted for a couple of million more rounds. One user of a pin fire revolver was "Stonewall" Jackson, whose 7mm is in a museum in Richmond.

Jim

 

[Zaydok Allen]

This is the only mark on the cylinder.

 

[WestKentucky]

I'm sure it would not be easy, but it certainly seems doable to produce a pin fire cartridge from a modern cartridge casing. By use of something like a cap held in place by a small clip or a single plastic cap like on a ring cap on a peg. Add a small guided firing pin to the side with a well fitted hole and you have ignition. Add powder and projectile...done. Wish it was truly that easy.

 

[WestKentucky]

http://freemycollection.com/?page=cartridges-for-sale
Not cheap

 

[kBob]

There is a Black Powder section on THR and pin fires came up recently. Including discussions on ammo.

Go there.

-kBob

 

[goon]

As kBob just said, you guys should check out the following discussion we just had about pinfires in the BP section...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=743132

 

[Jim Watson]

In the upside down view of Post #12, look straight to the left of the (Crown) G, out on the part of the cylinder with the square and dot embellishment, you can see a partial E/LG oval interrupted by the pattern.
Belgian.

 

[Ron James]

The Crown over the G is the inspectors mark { Belgium }. It can be any letter of the alphabet, depending on who the inspector was on that shift. I believe the engraving was done at a later date after the gun left the factory, perhaps even years later..

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Sure enough! I can't believe I didn't see that!

I bet you're right about the engraving. I'm glad to own it none the less. It's nice to have a better idea about it though.

 

[Jim K]

I missed it too, but it is there. The fact that the engraving is over the proof mark wouldn't necessarily mean it is post-factory, only that a finished gun was selected when an order for an engraved gun was received. That type of engraving was very common and often ran as little as $.25-.50 (or the equivalent) over the base price of the gun.

Jim

 

[AaronN322]

pinfire

Hi 460Kodiak,

Based on your proofmarks, your gun was made between 1853 and 1877.

Based on my experience it was probably closer to the second date. Metallic pinfire cartridges were just starting to take off around the early 1860s and really did not become common for civilians until probably the later 1860s. Then from that point until the 1880s everyone in Europe had probably 4 of them! (Then for the next 30 years they slowly became obsolete and very inexpensive.) Now pinfire shotguns on the other hand had already been popular for awhile.

Also, that was my website that was linked to a couple times up above. I do have a couple nice 9mm boxes right now, as well as empty ones or individual cartridges if you needed some to display with this. (The ones displayed on my website are not necessarily the ones I currently have in stock either.)

(It is also my image in the wikipedia link that you linked to) =)

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Hey welcome to the forum! Thanks for chiming in. Would you agree this appears to be a Belgian gun?

 

[AaronN322]

Yes the ELG is the definitive Liège, Belgium proof.