Letter to the public from an Officer

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Na. The worst is when you get pulled over and the cop says "Wait a second, aren't you (my last name)? You're in Sergeant's (my boss' last name) unit?" The cop then proceeded to call my boss over the radio, and my boss smoked me for about 15 minutes.
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Hehe my dad had the reverse story funny enough. Back in the 60's when he was in the Army Reserves as an MP he also worked as a cop. Well his Sgt. was really riding him hard about some stupid nonsense that I don't remember, but it was known that the Sgt. was a drunk and would go to the bar and get smashed every night. So my dad had one of his buddies in the town wait for him to leave the bar and pull him over......after he does my dad pulls up in the patrol car and "well well well......what do we have here???"........Needless to say the Sgt. didn't bother him after that night. :D
 
Great post. I have a lot of respect for the police, because they rarely ever get to deal with anyone other than the dregs of society.
 
If you don't know what the speed limit in your neighborhood is what makes you think it's 65?
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I was taught that if you don't know, assume it's 25 on side streets and 45 on rural roads.
 
leo question

Is there ticket quotas? I heard the number of tickets given out was a way to evaluate personnel. I know in very small communities the police department is used as a source of revenue.
 
Why....

Is there ticket quotas? I heard the number of tickets given out was a way to evaluate personnel. I know in very small communities the police department is used as a source of revenue.
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As a rent-a-cop, I can take a shot at this without fear of the full time guys on the board.... :)

There are quotas, and performance monitoring issues in some PDs....

Mostly the latter....

A local PD used to run a very profitable speed trap, too, but when they were forced to send their citations to a Municipal Court that could keep most of the fines, instead of the Mayor's Court, that mostly went away. They still patrol agressively, and there are some nasty tricks with speed limit signs still in place, but locals don't plan their trips "around" there any more.

A competent Officer will try to fill his quota (whether it's "Write 100 tickets or else!" or "You'd better turn in four or five a day.") with folks who really earn them. If management is competent too, they probably will target certain areas or intersections and worry more about visibility than paper.

(Most traffic cites should be educational, not punitive. The fine is supposed to make you remember what not to do. Sometimes the Officer will decide that a warning is sufficient too. Some Officers should be forced to take a friend of mine's not-quite-helped-by-Ritalin youngster to a toy store, too, but that's another story.)

Short answer: It depends on the PD.... Competent management will look at overall statistics. Others will just look at body counts.... :(

I'm reminded of a major PD in a large Western city which installed an electronic combination lock on the back door so the troops could get in without keys (which tended to wander off). Within a week somebody had scratched the combination into the paint on the door....
 
Good post.

I take issue with only two of the points you raised.

(1) Yes, I know cops don't ticket other cops. That doesn't make it right. It's wrong. The laws apply to everyone, equally.

(2) If I come home and find fire engines, ambulances and police cars lined up in front of my neighbors' house, I'm not going to be "curious" -- I'm going to be "concerned" -- maybe even "worried." Yes, I'll head over there, on the double. I won't get in anyone's way if I can help it, but I will want to know if my neighbors are okay and if there's anything I can do to help with whatever the problem happens to be. Don't allow your professional jaundice toward humanity in general blind you to the fact that some neighbors are more than just people who live in the house next door.
 
Cops know you pay taxes and that your taxes pay cops' salaries. Cops also pay taxes, which also pay cops' salaries so, hey, this traffic stop is on me. Now sign here; press hard your making five copies.

And a Variation On The Above --- Irate Offender: My tax money pays your salary, so you work for me! LEO: I pay taxes, too, so I figure I'm self-employed.
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Police officers are public agents. Whether they pay taxes, as private citizens do, is irelevant. What is relevant is that they are paid from public funds.

Irate offenders or dumb motorists making dumb statements doesn't change that. No, an officer doesn't work for me or for Ira T. Offender. But the officer certainly doesn't work for himself, any more than the government works for itself. Police work for the public at large -- the public trust -- which is not the same as the public majority, and they should keep that foremost in their minds. Simply benefitting the public good is not their job. This is not a democracy, and even if it were, current laws are not purely utilitarian. Police work to enforce the public good where it is legitimately perscribed by law, but in other cases they must enforce individual rights even when it does not serve the public good.

In a more philosophical sense, law enforcement officers do not work for their department, and they do not work to generate revenue. They are ultimately tasked with enforcing the Bill of Rights (insert generic 14th Am. incorporation argument here), even when doing so is anti-utilitarian and requires non-enforcement of state and federal laws. Sadly, that is often not reflected in reality, especially in cities.
 
Hawk:

(1) Yes, I know cops don't ticket other cops. That doesn't make it right. It's wrong. The laws apply to everyone, equally.
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This appears to be a "local" thing. The further West you go, the more likely this is. "Back East" there are places where anything short of a Felony is going to be ignored, and the odds are good that more serious activities will be handled quietly. In other areas you don't want to forget to signal a turn..... I know a guy, working LEO, who was ticketed by the Highway Patrol when he managed to drive between the wrong cones in a construction area. The HP guy knew he was LE, and that the ticket was probably going to be vacated, but he wrote it anyway. (The cones were improperly placed; the Judge tore up the cite.)

(2) If I come home and find fire engines, ambulances and police cars lined up in front of my neighbors' house, I'm not going to be "curious" -- I'm going to be "concerned" -- maybe even "worried." Yes, I'll head over there, on the double. I won't get in anyone's way if I can help it, but I will want to know if my neighbors are okay and if there's anything I can do to help with whatever the problem happens to be. Don't allow your professional jaundice toward humanity in general blind you to the fact that some neighbors are more than just people who live in the house next door.
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There's no good reason to not carefully scope out the situation, or fire up the barbie for that matter, but charging through the skirmish line (or the crime scene tape) is not a good idea. Other than hostage or barricaded suspect situations, there's probably nothing you can do that can't wait until things quiet down a bit. Taking care of the neighbor's kids or pets, putting some plywood over a broken window or door, etc. No reason why you can't talk to somebody and make the offer eventually. The whole idea is to not get in the way.

When I went to school for this (1967-1968), most of what they taught us in this area was "Protect The Scene." For the guys who were getting extra points for spelling their names right, that's pretty much the Eddie Eagle approach. "Don't Touch.", "Run away.", "Find and adult." (You had to be there....) If the PD or Fire folks need neighbor assistance, they'll ask. These situations tend to quiet down pretty quickly, at which point you can approach safely. The best time for that may be when the SWAT guys are walking back out, or the FD is rolling up their hoses.
 
Heh,

It wasn't so much me "rushing up to the officer" It's more like the guy on the other side of the apartment hallway opening the door wondering what's going on, and asking "do I need to be worried?".

The police were pounding on that door so loud I thought they were knocking on mine. Didn't know they were cops until I opened the door. Had a CZ IWB in my back. Didn't turn around. :uhoh:

Cops answer: "Noise complaint".

It was late at night, I was ready for bed, and really didn't want to go anywhere. I went to bed.
 
I had a crackhead living next to me, and he fit the description of many of the lowlives on COPS. Mullet, bandanna, no shirt EVER, looked like the living dead, that was him.

Anyway the local police were at his house atleast once a week, either for a drug bust or domestic violence. Often it involved a new girlfriend who moved in right away and then left a week later after said crackhead beat her.
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Why is it that creeps like that can have an unending supply of girlfriends, but I can't find one to save my soul from the Devil??? :D
 
Most traffic cites should be educational, not punitive. The fine is supposed to make you remember what not to do.
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Having grown up the son of a Deputy Chief in Dallas, I can attest to that one. It was 0300. I saw the red light. I saw no other traffic. I turned right without stopping... I didn't see the cruiser. The officer stopped me, and per my father's instruction, I did the whole routine. Dome light, keys on the dash, insurance and license in one hand hanging out the window, other one on the wheel. I even put out my cigarette. The officer greets me (rather politely, actually), and has a look at my license... Then he looks at me... Then at the cute redhead I was taking home... And then he got this REALLY evil grin.

"WELL I'LL BE DAMNED, BOY! I haven't seen you since you was *this* tall. Listen here, little lady, I saw this boy when his daddy brought him to the station the day he was born. He was just a tiny little thing back then, but we knew he was gonna grow up to be one helluva man. Looks like he did alright finding you there..."

This went on for ten... agonizing... minutes. This stupid ()*&$(&#^ just wouldn't shut up. I thought that if I jumped out of the car and took a swing at him he just might toss me in the cruiser and stop this. I was mortified, and the girl was struggling to breathe between bouts of hysterical laughter.

He finished his speech, pitched my license back in my lap, looked at me, pointed and said, "Don't run red lights." Then he walked back to his cruiser and drove off.

I will never, ever do that again.
 
here, from a murder trial which ended here [UK] last week in conviction of one David Bieber, who was also wanted in FL for murder, is a reminder of how quickly a routine traffic stop on a stolen car can accelerate into something far worse.
They turned on the the recorder in the squad car before it started:-
PC Roper : I'd think you'd appreciate if you were in Canada and somebody stole your car and the police arrested someone in possession of your car, you'd expect them to be questioned, wouldn't you?
Suspect: Yeah.
Roper: I see what you're saying, but you'd expect 'em to be questioned, I'm afraid. I'm not saying you are, but people do tell us lies, and obviously you've to explain how you got possession of a car reported stolen.
Suspect: Yeah.
Roper: That's down to the officers to ask you; that's why you're going back to station.
Suspect : So how long is this going to ... ?
Roper: Just try and relax for us, don't get all wound up, eh?
Suspect: I told you ... I mean I got, I need to take my medication.
PC Broadhurst: What medication are you on?
Suspect: Serazone and Alprazolam.
Broadhurst: What's that for?
Suspect: Anxiety disorder. (Pause) Claustrophobia.
(Tapping sound, noise of vehicles outside car, whistling)
Broadhurst: (Singing)
Suspect: Am I gonna be gone all night then?
Broadhurst: Sorry.
Suspect: I'll be gone all night.
Broadhurst: No.
Suspect: Until when?
Broadhurst: Don't know yet, mate.
A few moments later...
Roper: Do you wanna, er ... put cuffs on him?
Broadhurst: Up to you, d'ya wanna?
Roper: Yeah, double safety, mate.
(Sound of vehicle door opening, very loud whistling)
Roper: Stop hold there mate, just stop there.
Suspect: Right.
Roper: Cos we're transporting you, we're having to put handcuffs on you all right?
Suspect: No, (Pause) I got...
Roper: Claustrophobic.
Suspect: Yeah.
Roper: Well I'm sorry you can't sit behind us when we're er ...
(Sound of handcuff ratchet)
Suspect: Mate, lis... lis... Listen, don't, don't.
Roper: He's got a gun.
16.07.30 hours is the timing of the first shot.
(Gunshot 1)
(Loud screaming)
(Shots 2, 3, 4) (Screams)
"No don't, don't." (Pause)
"Please, please no." (Shot 5)
16.07.38 hours is the timing of the final shot (sound of radio communication)
 
I'm not attacking you I just want to understand....

Yes it's true, cops usually don't give other cops speeding tickets. ...---From List Copied by TheFederalistWeasel
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TheFederalistWeasel,

I'm not attacking you I just want to understand how one rationalizes not enforcing the law.

Do LEOs come out of the Academy with the belief that they are exempt from certain laws. Is it something they learn or are pressured into early in their careers? Is it done to defend ones self or ones family from retaliation?

What other laws don't apply to LEOs?

The reason I ask is because my nephew once asked me why a police cruiser didn't use his turn signal when he ran a stop sign. I think I told him that I guess he didn't see any Police around.:)


Respectfully,

jdkelly
 
I don’t ticket other cops; you really must screw up for me to take a cop to jail.

No we don’t come out of the Academy with a sense of entitlement in fact if anything you come out of the Academy with a clear understanding of just how fragile your State certification is and how quickly it can be revoked for criminal activity.

You are not pressured at least not where I’ve worked, professional courtesy is something you don’t command or ask for; if it is going to happen it will happen.

Many times I’ve gone to calls not using my lights/siren for various reasons and yes I did break a traffic law or two or three while responding, people don’t know the whole situation, I don’t expect them to, I think that’s why we have ride along programs, come see for yourself just how unique each response is and can be.

Now, that said I also don’t give tickets to Fire Dept or EMS Personnel, or Nurses and Doctors etc… basically anyone who sacrifices for others gets a pass with me.

Military personnel, same deal. I let a carload of camo-clad gents go about two weeks ago on US 80; they were headed to Ft. Benning from somewhere.

Stopped them for 79 in a 55, walked up to the car, D/L insurance etc… asked the young man driving if he was active duty or reserves, he said he was active duty Army, asked him for his ID, which he displayed.

Told him to have a nice day and please drive safely.

I also don’t give lawyers tickets, why you ask?

Why set your self up for a guaranteed court fight from hell.



On the flip side, good-looking women will get tickets from me in the blink of an eye, why you ask?

Most of your complaints will and do come from folks your let off on a warning, in fact all of mine have. Good-looking women who get the pass, some not all but some will tell others who will convince them or maybe they convinced themselves, the only reason I stopped them was the fact she was hot, notwithstanding the fact she was doing 65 in a school zone.

It broke my heart one night while working Atlanta South, made a traffic stop and the car was occupied by two very attractive W/F, both young, both very well built.

Driver worked for a popular strip club on the south side of ALT.

She got cited for the stop, plus she had no license on her so her friend was made to drive after she was tested roadside for alcohol. Her friend was also cited for not wearing her seat belt.


Don't believe me, ask any GA State Trooper, it was their study which showed this level of warning verses complaints.
 
JD:

Without defending the practice, would you want to write a guy for five or ten over who may be the one you need to pull your backside out of the fire next week?

Where this goes sour is when it's not just speed or a similar infraction, but is a DUI or something like that.

Funny thing, and this is IMHO, but it may be the trial lawyers.... Time was when you found a citized DUI, you locked up his car and drove him home. Or if you caught a friend's kid, you cleaned him up and got him home....

Today, that car you parked gets a scratch (Lord help you if you drive it for him), or the kid's hair gets frizzy, and you're in the courts for a year.... So you tow the car and take the citizen (or the kid) to the greybar, and keep another set of lawyers off welfare.... But if it's another LEO, you may be willing to take the chance.

Off-duty LEO's are supposed to obey traffic laws. On-Duty, there are some exceptions. Being human, they screw up sometimes. Other LEO's - particularly from their own or neighboring departments - are going to cut them a lot more slack.

As I've said before, as a rent-a-cop, I don't give tickets, I get 'em. But this still doesn't bother me. I've been out there.... I don't want to hear about LEO's stealing things (happened around here) and other forms of corruption, but getting stopped usually does the "education" thing.

Some years ago the OH Turnpike was cursed by a fluke in the new speed limits - wherever it crossed through a city the speed limit had to be 55. Otherwise, it was 65. Signs were posted, but were kind of "out of nowhere", and easy to miss. OSP, being truly :evil: , enforced the lower limit. One afternoon they caught a buddy of mine who was ex-MCSO and ex-DEA, and who'd missed the sign. They took him into some burg's SO or PD to post bond (that's not done anymore if you're an OH resident) and everybody in the building razzed him for getting caught. Then they razzed the OSP guys for bringing him in....

(He eventually paid the fine, btw. You have to hold his wife and children as hostages to get a Trooper to pull a ticket. That really is as it should be.)

(Note to OSP.... You're doing a difficult job. I may kid about it, but I still appreciate it.)

Weasel: I see that you've replied while I was typing this. I agree 100% If you happen to run into Bruce Bugg (he was working HazMat & Motor Vehicle enforcement at the office near ATL last time I heard from him) tell him I said hi. (Might be wise to be armed and prepared to run, but that's another story.)

Regards,
 
Thanks for the view.

TheFederlistWeasal,

Thanks for the information, it's an interesting look into to a world I'm not familar with.

Your story about the guys heading for Benning reminided me of a story.

The jist or which was four new Airborne troops in an old unregistired Comet just leaving the base get pulled over by a BIG BIG LEO. He leans his huge head into the drivers side window and says (straight out of the TV commerical) "you in a heap of trouble boy" cussed out the driver staired us all down and then told the driver "You get this !@## car back on post". He did!


Respectfully,

jdkelly
 
I saw a chance to ask.

SMMAssociates,

I was neither advocating nor defending the practice. I'm not a LEO so I can't really understand the dynamics of that situation. I've often wondered what the thought process was, and with TheFederalistWeasel's post I saw a chance to ask.

Respectfully,

jdkelly
 
Art:
Kids are easy. Mine once got fussy about his spinach. So, "Hey, son, if you don't eat your spinach, you can't go to bed." Turned out that he actually sorta liked spinach...
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:confused: Can't go to bed or can (typo). Mine would be happy if I told them that they couldn't go to bed until they ate their spinach, they would probably sit there all night continuing to mess around. However being sent to bed at 6:30 on a summer's evening when their buddies are waiting for them to come back outside .... :evil: .

Greg
 
Greg, he knew about other kids being sent to bed early. I caught him with the reverse twist on the deal, messing with his mind. :) Rules must be enforced with consistency, but how they're enforced is another matter entirely.

Art
 
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