I just got an email from Weapons World, touting a brand of 9mm called Liberty that advertises a 2000 fps from a 50 grain round "Civil Defense" is on the box, I have never seen a 50 grain 9mm, have you guys? the lightest ones I saw were the Powerball in my glock that are either 90 or 100 grain +p's. These are also +p according to the ad, "I would have thought +p+, and then some, thoughts?
Liberty 9mm? 2000 FPS?
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wgaynor
Member
I never believe what is advertised on boxes. I also prefer big slow moving bullets. A 50 grain 9mm moving at 2000fps is not what I'd want for Self Defense.
Hondo 60
Member
A 50 grain .356" bullet would be awful short.
Nah, I'd have to see that 2,000 fps to believe it.
Nah, I'd have to see that 2,000 fps to believe it.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
No. It's not possible with a typical lead core 9mm bullet.
Those have to be a plastic sabot round with a .224" 50 grain bullet or an epoxy matrix fragmenting bullet like a Mag-Safe.
Myself?
I'd pass on buying any Magic Bullets.
Unless they come with a free Magic Twanger, and a fairy dust shaker.
rc
Certaindeaf
member
I'd rather have a bonded 125gr Underwood going 1450.
shooter_from_show-me
Member
I will stick with my Win. Ranger T in 147 gr ammo for my 9mm. All this stuff is is pretty much a hollow copper jacket with little to no core.
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gamestalker
member
Ya, I would have to say those are some type of frangible bullet.
I load a 90 gr. XTP with a charge of Longshot worked up to above maximum, and I'm getting 1450's fps. out of 3" - 4 1/2" barrels. It's hard for me to buy the 2000 fps claim, but I'm no expert, and certainly not with anything that has to do with a factory load.
GS
I load a 90 gr. XTP with a charge of Longshot worked up to above maximum, and I'm getting 1450's fps. out of 3" - 4 1/2" barrels. It's hard for me to buy the 2000 fps claim, but I'm no expert, and certainly not with anything that has to do with a factory load.
GS
sellersm
Member
Tactical Defense Solutions reviewed these bullets and it's pretty impressive results:
YouTube video of review
YouTube video of review
I run into the same crap with pellet guns, they will state a velocity but not state the weight of the pellet. Lead vs alloy I would opt for the heavier.
PS, You better wear your hearing protection 24/7 with this new super ammo.
PS, You better wear your hearing protection 24/7 with this new super ammo.
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Kachok
Member
Sounds like a gimmick, If I want to maximize terminal performance I am shooting a fast expanding deep penetrating 124 or 147gr. My personal defense loads are 147gr XTPs over Longshot moving just over 1,000fps, no way would I trade 2/3rds of my lead for twice the speed.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I agree, pass on the magic bullets and go with a 124/125gr bullet over a stiff charge of Longshot, HS-6 or W231.
Kachok
Member
I will be falling out of my seat amazed if a 50gr HP reaches the minimum recommended 14" of 10%BG. If there were a betting pool I would have all my money on "HELL NO!"
moxie
Member
Magic Twanger! We are showing our age.
sellersm
Member
Did anyone watch the video review I posted? I guess not...
Kachok
Member
I did watch the video, they did not have a BG test of the 9mm only the 40 and 45, neither one looked real impressive to me, I would much rather have the HSTs they tested for comparison.
I ordered a couple boxes, I have to see this stuff work. The utube video was unbelievable with a 4 inch entry wound. It flew threw Kevlar, "I forgot how many layers" but I do remember falling off my desk chair. If this stuff works as advertised, it will reduce the weight of my carry mags, by a lot .
If you ever loaded a mag for a G26 with 10 rounds of 90grain powerball and compared it to 147 grain or even 115, you know what I mean, the gun changes it's ergonomics because it decreases the weight, "that " much. Especially when carrying gun and spare mag all day.
I can't wait to see what it feels like with my M&P or Glock, it may have really change what I carry daily, if it works as advertised .
If you ever loaded a mag for a G26 with 10 rounds of 90grain powerball and compared it to 147 grain or even 115, you know what I mean, the gun changes it's ergonomics because it decreases the weight, "that " much. Especially when carrying gun and spare mag all day.
I can't wait to see what it feels like with my M&P or Glock, it may have really change what I carry daily, if it works as advertised .
KansasSasquatch
Member
Comparing the weight savings in a 15rnd mag, it only saves you 1.37 ounces compared to 90gr ammo. And 3.32 ounces compared to 147gr ammo. I personally can't see how that would make much difference. But I'm not you, so I guess I don't know how it'll effect you.
Considering the fact that I pocket carry, it makes a difference in weather the pocket looks normal or pulls down and appears to have a gun in it. This combined with a 17-20 oz gun like a shield, or a glock 26 really make a big difference.
I wouldn't have thought so until I swapped out a mag full of 147 grain with a mag of 90 grain, It made the gun a lot lighter.
try it yourself and you will be surprised what a few ounces can do. I have since carried Powerball 90 grain in my glock and it really cut the weight by quite a bit. I used to laugh at the fact that my ammo was heavier in my 380 than in my 9. And the Powerball is great stuff, I hope this Liberty is what it's cracked up to be, You will get the weight down to half of what the 124 or 147 grain rounds weigh with say 12 to 15 rounds of 50 grain ammo.
I wouldn't have thought so until I swapped out a mag full of 147 grain with a mag of 90 grain, It made the gun a lot lighter.
try it yourself and you will be surprised what a few ounces can do. I have since carried Powerball 90 grain in my glock and it really cut the weight by quite a bit. I used to laugh at the fact that my ammo was heavier in my 380 than in my 9. And the Powerball is great stuff, I hope this Liberty is what it's cracked up to be, You will get the weight down to half of what the 124 or 147 grain rounds weigh with say 12 to 15 rounds of 50 grain ammo.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I agree.
That's why I only carry one round in my 5-shot S&W J-Frame cylinder.
SO much easier on the pocket!!
rc
RetiredUSNChief
Member
What he said.
Assuming lead, that would make the bullet 0.175 inches long. Not a very stable bullet design at that diameter.
Which implies that the bullet must be made of less dense material in order to get a geometry that would be stable in flight. Possibly in combination with a pretty impressive hollow point.
Here's one review I found on it, full of blatant BS hype:
Liberty Ammunition’s USM4 UltraDefense® handgun projectile is a monolithic, hollow- point, lead-free handgun projectile that significantly outperforms traditional lead-based handgun ammunition across every metric. Liberty Ammunition’s handgun rounds have historically only been available to the Military because of their lethality, and have up until recently have been guarded by the Department of Defense under a Level III secret review. Now, after customization specifically for US Law Enforcement and Civilian Handgun Markets, the breakthrough performance projectiles are for the first time being made available to a broader target audience.
In recent independently validated live fire exercises conducted for members of the US Military and various foreign defense contractor leadership, Liberty’s USM4 demonstrated heretofore never witnessed performance. USM4’s 9MM, 45ACP, and 40 S&W projectiles achieved more than 2,000 fps velocity, making them the fastest known handgun projectile in the world. USM4’s velocity and unique design characteristics enables the projectile to overcome historical range, accuracy, and stopping power issues typically associated with handgun ammunition. In the performance demonstrations, USM4 achieved less than two inches of dispersion at 25 meters and greater than 12 inches of penetration in ballistic gelatin.
http://www.tactical-life.com/products/liberty-ammunition-usm4-ultra-defense-ammo/
There's a marketing link to USM4.com at the bottom of the article for more information.
Having served 20 years in the military myself, and currently trained in authorized deriviative classification, I don't believe I've ever heard of a DOD "Level III secret review". Perhaps someone else can enlighten me on this.
Personally, I like this exerpt from the USM4.com site:
In ballistic gel, this round has achieves 12 inches of penetration and a permanent wound cavity greater than 5 inches in diameter. This translates in to a faster, more powerful round capable of catastrophic wound damage with 16% less felt recoil.
Never mind that this "DOD" tested round would have the effective range of a hand-tossed rock, with that diameter and mass, and would probably suck penetration-wise through such things as clothing and minor obstacles.
But hey...I suppose the magic 2,000 fps will sell.
moxie
Member
The Chief is correct. there is no such thing as a Level III Secret Review. And I was a Classifier/Declassifier in addition to being Air Force Chief of Munitions Programs.
98Redline
Member
Level III Secret Review......is that anything like Double Secret Probation?
Certaindeaf
member
When I wanna get all jiggy I just use a gas check loaded backerds. Not really.
I'd imagine that round would be good for close range varmint vaporization but dead is dead and sometimes there are big varmints and perhaps not close.
I'd imagine that round would be good for close range varmint vaporization but dead is dead and sometimes there are big varmints and perhaps not close.
So does fmj. The fragmentation is immediate and doesn't penetrate much, wonder if that would give an appreciable increase in wounding. maybe if it was going 50% faster and had better sd... at which point it would be .223. As it is, I think you really have to believe in hydrostatic shock for handgun rounds to give this consideration.
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