Liberty Safes Gives Out Access Code

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Double Naught Spy

Double Naught Spy

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Imagine for a second that for some reason, the cops have a warrant for your premises and they see you have a Liberty safe and want access to it. You don't give them the code to the safe. You are remaining silent as you were advised. The cops are otherwise unable to open the safe and so they call Liberty and say that they have a warrant and would Liberty give them the code? Liberty gives them the code? Do you buy another product from Liberty?

They did this, as a matter of policy, for January 6 suspect. I don't care one way or the other about the particular situation and this thread isn't about January 6. January 6 just happens to be the event behind the warrant. Liberty was not served with a warrant. There was simply a warrant for the suspect's stuff and since there was a warrant, Liberty had no problem providing access to their customer's safe.

gazette.com

Gun safe manufacturer criticized for giving code of person's safe to FBI

A gun safe manufacturer is facing criticism from conservatives online after it provided the access code of a person's safe to the FBI.
gazette.com gazette.com
"Liberty Safe, the manufacturer, clarified that it had been contacted by the FBI in late August to provide a safe's access code for a person it was investigating, with the agency giving Liberty Safe proof of a valid property search warrant of this person. The manufacturer said its policy is only to provide access codes to law enforcement if there is a warrant that grants law enforcement access to a person's property." (color and bold face are mine) [color edited by admin to show up on a white on black screen]

When you buy a product from a security company, you don't expect that that company will compromise your security. If Liberty was served with the warrant, I would understand 100%, but Liberty wasn't served with a warrant, but was simply made aware that there was a warrant for a person (and property) who owned one of their safes and compromised that person's security as a result.
 
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Hartkopf said:
I believe some safes have a serial number that is documented at the factory with the unlock code. If this is the case, it doesn’t matter if the safe is a mechanical dial.
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Dont know about Liberty, but some mechanical safes allow the end user to change the combo. Just like your router, NEVER trust the factory codes....
 
A local locksmith could have drilled the safe open in under 20 minutes, from time of arrival.

But it would have cost $300 or so.


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Drill baby Drill!
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But your point is taken. A Corporation is going to supply whatever information the Government requests, as long as the paperwork protects the Corporation from private lawsuits, and it does not affect sales.

If you have a change key, and can find the instructions on the web, a mechanical lock will have a unique combination that the OEM company can't give out.

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And, electronic locks fail exponentially more than high quality mechanical locks. As locksmiths have told me, electronic locks are the gift that keeps on giving.
 
Double Naught Spy said:
The cops are otherwise unable to open the safe
Click to expand...
Not the case at all. Gomer himself could open anything Liberty makes in an eight hour shift or two with an angle grinder. Someone clever could could do it in 4 hours.

There's nothing sacrosanct about your gun safe that isn't already superceded (rightly or wrongly) by the search warrant.

The issue at hand here is the high handed, flagrant, intentionally obvious corruption of justice that is the "hunting of Republicans" as Scott Adams put it. Leave Liberty out of it; they did nothing wrong.

And if you don't want Liberty knowing your safe combo, change the lock.
 
But are we getting the entire story here??????

I have only seen links to YouTube videos and fringe news sights. No let me state that if Liberty gave out the code without a search warrant for the safe, then they are in the wrong. But again we don't know the whole story yet. They may have had a search warrant for the safe and if so, Liberty was obligated to give them the code.

And we have proven numerous times lately not to trust YouTube videos for factual information. Most will hype and sensationalize the story for ratings. Same with some online news sources.

I want t know if there was a proper warrant issued to access the safe by a judge before I pass judgement on Liberty.
 
I seem to recall an incident where the FBI asked Apple to crack a phone for them and they said no, is this somehow different? when I purchase a safe I purchase it with a mind toward security just as I purchased my home. My home however did not come equipt with a backdoor where the builder has the only key and has the ability to just hand it off to someone else.
 
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12Bravo20 said:
But are we getting the entire story here??????

I have only seen links to YouTube videos and fringe news sights. No let me state that if Liberty gave out the code without a search warrant for the safe, then they are in the wrong. But again we don't know the whole story yet. They may have had a search warrant for the safe and if so, Liberty was obligated to give them the code.

And we have proven numerous times lately not to trust YouTube videos for factual information. Most will hype and sensationalize the story for ratings. Same with some online news sources.

I want t know if there was a proper warrant issued to access the safe by a judge before I pass judgement on Liberty.
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I believe the warrant alone does not obligate the manufacturer to actively assist in the search unless it was explicitly ordered to do so by the court. There are probably jurisdictional issues there as well.

If there ISN'T more to this story, and Liberty voluntarily rolled over for a phone call without demanding a verified copy of the court order first, they deserve whatever they get.

If they were legally compelled to surrender the combo, it is what it is.
 
conan32120 said:
I seem to recall an incident where the FBI asked Apple to crack a phone for them and they said no, is this somehow different? when I purchase a safe I purchase it with a mind toward security just as I purchased my home. My home however did not come equipt with a backdoor where the builder has the only key and has the ability to just hand it off to someone else.
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Apple spent gazillions on lawyers arguing that giving .Gov access would compromise trade secrets. I don't think Liberty could go that route. They could still contest, but it would be expensive. The optics of at least appearing to support their customers' rights might be worth it, however.

Liberty may have juicy Govt. contracts they don't want to jeapordize as well, of course.🙄
 
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It’s not a matter of how long it would take to break into the safe or if they should have held out, or any other reason. You purchased a safe, because it was a “safe”. Back door codes given out, without a specific warrant is a betrayal of trust. That is the heart of the matter. As a network engineer, when I configure a network device, I clear all factory keys and certificates. If they can’t be cleared, I won’t buy or put into production.

Keep in mind, if you have a digital safe, and clear all factory codes (if they allow you), you could lock yourself out. A risk some might not be willing to take. If the maker has a back door it could prove Invaluable. But the expectation is still that the codes remain private.
 
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From what I understand it was a legal warrant. Follow the law, let the chips fall where they fall. Liberty could have delayed getting the safe opened, but not prevented it. Giving the codes to open it just kept it from being damaged to get it open.
 
tactikel said:
A gun safe is to keep a criminal from stealing your firearms. A law enforcement entity WITH a warrant will get access via code, pry bars, or torch.
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This is exactly right, right here. Going off of pure speculation (as we ALL are), do you REALLY think the combination would have stopped the government? Liberty saved the destruction of the man's safe, that's it. I understand the idea of the 4th Amendment, but the government had a warrant. Who's to say that the government didn't send a photo of the warrant to Liberty? Without the full story, it's all speculation, but it seems to me a lot of people are looking for a reason to hate a company that saved the demolition of a man's safe, and that's it. The government was getting into that safe with, or without, the help of Liberty.
 
12Bravo20 said:
But are we getting the entire story here??????

I have only seen links to YouTube videos and fringe news sights. No let me state that if Liberty gave out the code without a search warrant for the safe, then they are in the wrong. But again we don't know the whole story yet. They may have had a search warrant for the safe and if so, Liberty was obligated to give them the code.
Click to expand...

See below.

 
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