Like to hear your pucking advice!

gun'sRgood

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Joined
Feb 16, 2021
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908
I make 4kg of BP at a time to feed my cannons. At 6oz a wack it goes pretty quick. Other than my cannons, I a have a singe .50 flinter as my trusty side arm and for Christmas, my Wife bought me a make your own Kentucky Long gun. So I need smaller F values. I like something other than screeding so I made a pucking mold and have a 20T press. The pucks look great! Now what? I seem to recall a guy here, Brushhippy? [sic?] that told how he F'd pucks to desired grind but I'm not sure. If you guys have any grinding ideas, I'd love to hear them. A mortar and pestle wouldn't give consistent results and seems like a very slow idea. I think an aluminum sausage grinder might work? But then again, Don't know. Ideas?
 
Good morning. 40 years ago, a friend and I experimented to determine if we could make functional black powder. I will not explain our process but Once we had a properly dried puck, we hand corned or "ground" it against a tightly strung copper fly screen. This yielded a pile of varying sized black powder granules. Then, we sifted the pile on various sized Brass screens purchased through a scientific lab supply store.. This process is slow but yielded what we wanted.

Here are the screen sizes that we used for the different black powder granules.


Cannon – 6 mesh (3.35 mm)
Saluting – 10 mesh (2 mm)
Fg – 12 mesh (1.7 mm)
FFg – 16 mesh (1.18 mm)
FFFg - 20 mesh (.85 mm)
FFFFg – 40 mesh (.47 mm)
FFFFFg – 75mesh (.149 mm)

Be safe!
Dan
 
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Good morning. 40 years ago, a friend and I experimented to determine if we could make functional black powder. I will not explain our process but Once we had a properly dried puck, we hand corned or "ground" it against a tightly strung copper fly screen. This yielded a pile of varying sized black powder granules. Then, we sifted the pile on various sized Brass screens purchased through a scientific lab supply store.. This process is slow but yielded what we wanted.

Here are the screen sizes that we used for the different black powder granules.


Cannon – 6 mesh (3.35 mm)
Saluting – 10 mesh (2 mm)
Fg – 12 mesh (1.7 mm)
FFg – 16 mesh (1.18 mm)
FFFg - 20 mesh (.85 mm)
FFFFg – 40 mesh (.47 mm)
FFFFFg – 75mesh (.149 mm)

Be safe!
Dan
Yeah, thanks. 20 years of making cannons and the fuel for them. Part time machinist allows me to make puck presses out of scrap aluminum. Most screeding is just screening. Copper is so soft but I get where you're going. I really want to make F values as the constant. I don't see why aluminum grinding wheels wouldn't be safe. And I don't think I've seen a grinder with ceramic blades. But I'll go look. Thx. There's soooo much wrong with what is safe and what is not. I'd go with static electricity as a heat form that bugs me the most. Then again, metal against metal, as in steel pounding BP by steel. There are several million examples of this. AKA, The Civil War. All those muskets with steel ramrods and that's just one out of numerous was fought by similar gun forms. What % moisture did you achieve to call your pucks dried? For those who don't puck, these things come out like wind chimes. Thx.
 
Static electricity has no effect on bp. You can even tase it. Back in the day you had these huge powder mills that employed hundreds of people. The floors would have been covered in powder. All it takes is one spark in the right place. Most of the work is done with the powder wet so as long as you're careful the danger would be minimal.
 
@gun'sRgood , we did not take measurements of % dryness of the puck. What we did do was let the puck(s) sit and dry in an environmentally controlled room [A/C}] until it "Felt" dry or crispy. Then the puck was tested on the corning screen. If still "wet", it would not corn correctly but would be sticky. If sufficiently dry, it would corn easily and crumble into the pile below the screen. Then the pile would be screened for size. We used the fines & 5F for flash powder. 1F - 4F were shot in a rifle later. We re-corned the larger particals to fit into the Fines - 5F categories.

At the time (~1982), I did not have an official powder power testing device nor the clarity to field test (shoot a direct comparison test) against known powders like DuPont or GOEX. However, I did shoot it and, at least the samples that we made shot well in the rifle used. Antidotally, It shot similar to the GOEX I was using at the time. However, because of the quality charcoal we used, It did shoot cleaner (Less fowling) than the GOEX used at that time.

For small quantities, This is a simple as it gets. The result can be good or bad depending on the quality of your materials and how meticulous you are for following the basic steps to the letter.

I have plenty of powder for my meager shooting purposes but y'all are making me want to try our old experiments again......Maybe.....Maybe not!

Always curious,
Danaidh
 
Static electricity has no effect on bp. You can even tase it. Back in the day you had these huge powder mills that employed hundreds of people. The floors would have been covered in powder. All it takes is one spark in the right place. Most of the work is done with the powder wet so as long as you're careful the danger would be minimal.
Actually the floors of BP mills were immaculate as well as the rest of the mill. These people knew they were working with BP. Explosions of these mills was rare. As is with most anyone making this stuff. It's ignorance that gets folks hurt. This is one of the simplest chemical creations one can do. Heck, it's not even a different molecule. I find you to be a rare guy to understand that static electricity has no heat. Congratulations. I used to keep a pic of running a static electric spark through BP with zero results. I think most thought it was fake pic.
 
@gun'sRgood , we did not take measurements of % dryness of the puck. What we did do was let the puck(s) sit and dry in an environmentally controlled room [A/C}] until it "Felt" dry or crispy. Then the puck was tested on the corning screen. If still "wet", it would not corn correctly but would be sticky. If sufficiently dry, it would corn easily and crumble into the pile below the screen. Then the pile would be screened for size. We used the fines & 5F for flash powder. 1F - 4F were shot in a rifle later. We re-corned the larger particals to fit into the Fines - 5F categories.

At the time (~1982), I did not have an official powder power testing device nor the clarity to field test (shoot a direct comparison test) against known powders like DuPont or GOEX. However, I did shoot it and, at least the samples that we made shot well in the rifle used. Antidotally, It shot similar to the GOEX I was using at the time. However, because of the quality charcoal we used, It did shoot cleaner (Less fowling) than the GOEX used at that time.

For small quantities, This is a simple as it gets. The result can be good or bad depending on the quality of your materials and how meticulous you are for following the basic steps to the letter.

I have plenty of powder for my meager shooting purposes but y'all are making me want to try our old experiments again......Maybe.....Maybe not!

Always curious,
Danaidh
Awesome! Yeah, I wanted to challenge other makers of the BP to quality wars but the how's really got in the way. There are a few tester methods out there but again, the how's. I liked the cannon ball on a chain and the swing gauge for a pistol. I guess I'll just keep going with, "My BP can beat up your BP!" snicker... Thx for sharing.
 
Sure, thx, will do. I've really never considered pucking due to the lack of need. Now helping a guy learn and his desire to shoot little guns like side arms and rifles, I find myself wondering more about the craft. Tell me if I'm on the right track. I surmise that pucking is another form of forcing the nitrate into the charcoal? If dried prior to releasing pressure, I'd guess a faster burn? I use pharmaceutical grade everything and teach the same. I also make sure that it is known that the secrete to BP was rarely the recipe. Quality BP relies on the what and how the charcoal was made. This because it doesn't matter if you puck if you don't have a product worth pucking. So I tried my hand at pucking. I applied 20 tons to a 3" disk and got what resembles a sheet of black glass. Mortar and pestle to 4-5f. Dang! Guess i better load up my trusty .50 flinter and see what I can hit!
 
@gun'sRgood , we did not take measurements of % dryness of the puck. What we did do was let the puck(s) sit and dry in an environmentally controlled room [A/C}] until it "Felt" dry or crispy. Then the puck was tested on the corning screen. If still "wet", it would not corn correctly but would be sticky. If sufficiently dry, it would corn easily and crumble into the pile below the screen. Then the pile would be screened for size. We used the fines & 5F for flash powder. 1F - 4F were shot in a rifle later. We re-corned the larger particals to fit into the Fines - 5F categories.

At the time (~1982), I did not have an official powder power testing device nor the clarity to field test (shoot a direct comparison test) against known powders like DuPont or GOEX. However, I did shoot it and, at least the samples that we made shot well in the rifle used. Antidotally, It shot similar to the GOEX I was using at the time. However, because of the quality charcoal we used, It did shoot cleaner (Less fowling) than the GOEX used at that time.

For small quantities, This is a simple as it gets. The result can be good or bad depending on the quality of your materials and how meticulous you are for following the basic steps to the letter.

I have plenty of powder for my meager shooting purposes but y'all are making me want to try our old experiments again......Maybe.....Maybe not!

Always curious,
Danaidh


If you can pres your "puck" through a screen, it's not a "puck". A puck is meal that has been compressed to more than 3600 PSI, the suckers are like ceramic. Hence the reference to a Hockey Puck. A dry(<= 3% moisture) puck will "ring" like a piece of ceramic.
 
Good morning @Big Bore 44 and good folks here on the forum. I was only relating what a friend and I had done in the past because the OP, @gun'sRgood, asked about methods of creating sized granules.

The chemical mixture [it is only a mixture and not a solution or other because the 3 ingredients never blend together they only mix together] was pressed into a "puck". I did not go by anyone's definition of a specific pressure to form the "puck" but only by my definition of "Good Enough".

My "puck" is shaped like a Hockey "puck", looked like a Hockey "puck", but it is not a Hockey "puck"; it was a "puck" none-the-less. A Hockey puck is made of hard synthetic rubber. It does not ring nor does it resemble ceramic. Ceramic is made from clay or a clay-like material. It is fired in a furnace to make it what it is. Please do not fire a puck shaped object made from potassium nitrate, Sulfur and carbon.

Also, I stated that my "puck", once dried to my definition of dry, was corned (rubbed against the screen to grind) through a screen. It was not pressed through a screen. My method worked for me and more importantly, when shot and compared to Commercial manufactured black powder, it was mostly equal to the commercial black powder in power and burned more cleanly with less residue.

There are many ways to make black Gun powder. Not all work like we might want them to. One can mix the ingredients dry and still have a reaction. Using quality chemicals makes a for better result than using less than lab grade materials. I have also made usable Gun powder using the "GRANNY" method. Make your Potassium nitrate by filtering water through the soil from under the chicken coop (or out house) through hay in a cradle. Evaporate the niter water in the sun and repeat until one has a pure crystalline state of potassium nitrate. Then take your pocket knife and scratch or collect RED iron oxide (red rust) off of your rusted farm equipment (mind that it is red iron oxide only). Acquire a cup of purified sugar from your cane in the field through the evaporation and purifying method. Now mix the 3 ingredients dry (properly measured ratios). Add a proper amount of water to the dry mixture and stir to a consistent color and texture. Place the "putty" on a cookie sheet and let dry in the sun. When still somewhat pliable, cut into squares with your kitchen knife. Place back in the sun to dry more. When the squares are dried "Good Enough" in the sun, Corn the squares against a piece of fly screen into granules. Separate the fines from the other granules. Place a measured amount of granules in the barrel of your gun, load a patched ball and place the fines in your flash pan. Go out in the back yard and shoot a squirrel for supper. Technically this is a RED Gun Powder but it was "GOOD ENOUGH" for Granny and is good enough for me.

DISCLAIMER:
If you do not know what you are doing attempting to make gunpowder , Black or Red, stay away from it!!!! It can hurt your feelings if not properly handled !!!

Good living through Chemistry,
Danaidh
 
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I would not want to take a chance with static electicity around black powder. Static electric may have no heat as previous stated but it will damn sure ignite gasoline as I have had it happen to me. I have no idea of the volity differences between the two and certainly don't want to find out.
 
Good morning @Big Bore 44 and good folks here on the forum. I was only relating what a friend and I had done in the past because the OP, @gun'sRgood, asked about methods of creating sized granules.

The chemical mixture [it is only a mixture and not a solution or other because the 3 ingredients never blend together they only mix together] was pressed into a "puck". I did not go by anyone's definition of a specific pressure to form the "puck" but only by my definition of "Good Enough".

My "puck" is shaped like a Hockey "puck", looked like a Hockey "puck", but it is not a Hockey "puck"; it was a "puck" none-the-less. A Hockey puck is made of hard synthetic rubber. It does not ring nor does it resemble ceramic. Ceramic is made from clay or a clay-like material. It is fired in a furnace to make it what it is. Please do not fire a puck shaped object made from potassium nitrate, Sulfur and carbon.

Also, I stated that my "puck", once dried to my definition of dry, was corned (rubbed against the screen to grind) through a screen. It was not pressed through a screen. My method worked for me and more importantly, when shot and compared to Commercial manufactured black powder, it was mostly equal to the commercial black powder in power and burned more cleanly with less residue.

There are many ways to make black Gun powder. Not all work like we might want them to. One can mix the ingredients dry and still have a reaction. Using quality chemicals makes a for better result than using less than lab grade materials. I have also made usable Gun powder using the "GRANNY" method. Make your Potassium nitrate by filtering water through the soil from under the chicken coop (or out house) through hay in a cradle. Evaporate the niter water in the sun and repeat until one has a pure crystalline state of potassium nitrate. Then take your pocket knife and scratch or collect RED iron oxide (red rust) off of your rusted farm equipment (mind that it is red iron oxide only). Acquire a cup of purified sugar from your cane in the field through the evaporation and purifying method. Now mix the 3 ingredients dry (properly measured ratios). Add a proper amount of water to the dry mixture and stir to a consistent color and texture. Place the "putty" on a cookie sheet and let dry in the sun. When still somewhat pliable, cut into squares with your kitchen knife. Place back in the sun to dry more. When the squares are dried "Good Enough" in the sun, Corn the squares against a piece of fly screen into granules. Separate the fines from the other granules. Place a measured amount of granules in the barrel of your gun, load a patched ball and place the fines in your flash pan. Go out in the back yard and shoot a squirrel for supper. Technically this is a RED Gun Powder but it was "GOOD ENOUGH" for Granny and is good enough for me.

DISCLAIMER:
If you do not know what you are doing attempting to make gunpowder , Black or Red, stay away from it!!!! It can hurt your feelings if not properly handled !!!

Good living through Chemistry,
Danaidh
Nice read. I say go for it. Make a small batch and you'll be fine. It's BP not a flash powder. The issue of changing the ignition point may be of issue if your trying to make Granny BP. How to get sulfur out of pyrite was my go to, but that's far worse than breathing chicken poop. That's my only caveat. If you're a tree stump remover and BBQ charcoal kinda guy, I doubt you'll come close to blowing yourself up.
 
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