Load Data Help .41 Magnum

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Diode

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I have been shooting FMJ's in my .41 using Win296 powder and seems to be a good mix, but I got a great deal on some LSWC 215 Gr. bullets and while I have found some load data none have been with either win231 or 296. Does anyone have a load using the winchester powders? If the answer is a resounding no then gimmie what ya got. I'll move to a new powder if I must :barf:

jim
 
Diode, I thought I could help with data from an older Lyman manual. I was surprised that 231 wasn't listed.

I do have Winchester data for 231 and a 210 gr. lead bullet. The Maximum charge is all they list, but the pressure is pretty conseravtive at 28,000 CUP. That's about 30,000 PSI. All .41 Magnum data in manuals goes to at least 35,000 PSI, and recently, most have gone back up to 40,000 CUP. Much closer to the original pressure spec of 43,500 CUP.

Winchester's load for the 210 is 7.4 grs. and velocity is rated at 1125 FPS @ 28,000 CUP. With a start charge of 6.7 grains and working up, the 7.4 grain max. will be fine for the 215.

If you want to consider another powder, I have data for SR-4756, IMR-4227, Unique, Blue Dot, 2400, and HS-7 which is still available but being discontinued. AA#7 is a good substitue but charges will differ. My data with these powders goes up to a maximum of 37,000 CUP with 2400 yielding the highest pressure.

Personally, I like Blue Dot for full power cast loads in .41 Magnum and AA#9 for jacketed. But #9 and #7 will work well for cast loads as well.

You didn't mention the type of revolver, but just in case it is a Taurus Tracker, I'd use the data for 231.

M657, Blackhawk, Redhawk or Raging Bull, you're options are open.;)
 
I've loaded 215gr LSWC using 7.0grs of W231 and it makes a good modest power load and like anything I've ever loaded in the .41 mag its accurate. I'd be a little hesitant to use W296 with cast bullets unless you have some very hard ones as the velocity would have to be pretty high using the volume sensitive W296 in order to prevent a squib.

My .41 mag loadbook has RCBS 210gr cast SWC data that lists W296 at 19.0grs for 1187 fps and a max of 21.0grs for 1392 fps.

As mentioned you can use 210gr cast data with 215gr cast bullets, just work up.
 
CZ I did forget to mention the revolver, it's a Model 57, thank guys that's some cool options. I'll try a few of them and see which we like best.

jim
 
The original! Good luck, Diode. There is a "sleeper" if you do add a powder specifically for loading cast bullets: SR-4756. Unlike most flake propellants that are double based like all of those from Alliant, 700-X and 800-X from IMR and most of the Hodgdon flake powders, SR-4756 is Single Base and does very well with cast loads in larger revolver cartridges.;)
 
CZ, It's a no dash Nickel finish. I'll look into that powder as well. We shoot fmj and lead in our .45's & 38's depending on our need for bang mood. :)
thanks so much, here is a pic I don't have good ones of it yet.

M57-41.gif
 
It's a beauty! The first magnum revolver I ever fired was a 4" Blue 57. Nothing has ever been quite the same. 5 1/2" and 7 1/2" Ruger Redhawks are what I shoot, but I'm working a deal for a 6" nickel 57. Gotta have it!;)
 
Is SR-4756 common enough that I will find load data using it? So much to learn so little time.
jim
 
I would be cautious using hot (at or near factory max) rounds in it. It will literally fall apart. I had 2 of the 57s, 1 was a -1 and the other a -2 and had to send them both back to S & W , the cyclinders and timing get loose and one of them actually streched the frame.
 
CZ57 may know another reason, or may correct me entirely, but I have been always been told that since single base powders generally burn cooler they are better with lead since they do not burn the base as bad. :scrutiny:
 
Diode, the Lyman manuals should provide you plenty. The Pistol & Revolver III is definitely worth having since it includes data for the newest powders with more handgun cartidge recipes.

Walkalong, you're on it. I believe the single base powders can be a bit more uniform in burn characteristics as well. Without the addition of nitroglycerine, though, they sometimes don't produce that extra punch provided with the addition of nitro. Unless top velocities are required, that extra punch may not be necessary. A good example is SR4756 and 800-X. They are similar in burn rate, but 800-X has a greater energy potential. Not always a good thing because at higher pressure, 800-X has been known to be somewhat eratic. Ball powders start out as Nitrocellulose and differ by the amount of nitro impregnated into the nitrocellulose. Accurate used to show the amount of nitro content for a given powder. They may still do so, I haven't picked up a load booklet in several years. Typically, powders with faster burn rates contain a higher content of nitro. There are exceptions. AA#2 has less nitro added than AA#5. Sometimes the physical size, or density of flakes/granules can alter burn rate. Y'all have probably seen me mention that Power Pistol is a larger flake variant of Bullseye. That is how they get the slower burn rate. I know it's not as simple as I'm describing it, so check your resources for in-depth explanation.

I'll quote the SPEER manual for the definition,
"Modern terminology for the straight nitrocellulose powders is "single base". Those with a significant percentage of nitroglycerine are called "double base propellants.;)

SR 7625 is useful also, and can be very clean burning if that's a real issue for anyone.
 
I have a pound of American Select; I may give that a try for my 9mm cast bullet loads. If I recall correctly, A.S. is over 97% nitrocellulose, with just a small amount of NG for a plasticizer. I bought it on sale and was going to use it in .38 Specials for my house gun, but the flash was too bright when I tried it in some target loads with copper-plated bullets. I haven't gotten back around to trying it again yet. I do remember that it was disturbingly clean burning.
 
Yeah, Bob, it's hard to to avoid flash with double base flake powders. Most common ball powders are also double base, but seem to be more adaptive to flash retardants. Density must also play into this. Some of the lowest flashers are very dense. AA#5 is 18% nitro but is typically low flash. #7 flashes even less, but it is denser and nitro content is down to 12%.

AS is worth a try for your 9mm cast loads. I have a friend who's using Solo 1000 and raves about his cast loads in 9mm. 1000 is single base. None of this is any secret. I know a good many magnum revolver shooters who love 4756 for cast loads

Diode, I forgot to mention the SPEER manual for data. Mine is loaded with 4756 data, but it's the #11 from the mid 80s. I haven't seen the #14 yet, but from what I've heard, it's excellent. I ordered the Lyman P&R III for my brother in law to get him started into reloading in case y'all have seen the thread. I was sure I'd heard some guys were using Trail Boss for jacketed loads in .38 Special. I know it's for cast, but it is very bulky. I guess I saw the loads on another forum.;)
 
All good info guys thanks! CZ, I actually have the Lymans second edition book and didn't know it. A friend who shoots and loads with me gave it to me months ago. Thus I have more questions, :) In the .41 Magnum section there is a 215 gr. "Linotype" bullet data that looks like a LSWC to me. I am a Printer and a Linotype is a machine used years ago to set what we used to call hot type or LEAD. Any info why it's called that?

Anyway that looks like the numbers I was looking for, it has SR-4756 and I can't to find some and try it.

jim
 
Diode, there are probably some older hands where you work that are better qualified to tell you how it picked up the name "Linotype" in the priniting business, but as far as what it means to the handloader, the alloy is 84% lead, 4% tin and antimony content is high at 12%. The Brinell Hardness, BHN, is 22. That's slightly harder than most commercial cast bullets that are around 18-19 BHN. If you can get enough quantity of it, you might want to consider casting. Typically, Linotype will yield slightly smaller diameters of the bullets that come from the mold. There are two alloys that are even harder, Stereotype (23) and Monotype (28). The harder the alloy, the smaller diameter it will be as it comes from the mold: density.

Some commercial alloys are harder than Linotype like the Oregon Trails/LaserCast. They rate their hardness at 26 BHN, or did last time I checked. You can use the Linotype data with commercially cast bullets and as you work up from the start charge, check for pressure signs along the way, you may be able to reach the same maximum loads depending on alloy, accuracy, how well the bullet is lubed to keep leading minimal as you reach max loads.

As zxcvbob pointed out, Herco can work well. Depending on the velocity you want to achieve, Alliant gives you 4 good choices: Unique, Herco, Blue Dot and 2400, all double base. Naturally, you could use Hodgdon Universal as a substitute if you prefer it over Unique. Herco should give you similar performance to 4756, but 4756 is single base and is finer grained for easier metering, so there may be a slight advantage there. I am running out of Blue Dot and I really like #9 for jacketed loads in .357 and.41 Magnum, although I'm going to try Ramshot Enforcer for jacketed loads. When my Blue Dot is gone I'll switch over to 4756 exclusively for cast loads in .357, .41 and .44 Magnum. Too many of the guys that use it, rave about it.

I know one reloader that uses 4756 for very heavy 230 gr. loads in .45 ACP. The 1000 FPS variety for hunting loads. I found out by asking about its use for that purpose (not at 1000 FPS, though) and he told me I had discovered his secret recipe!;)

You won't have any problem finding 4756.
 
Typically, Linotype will yield slightly smaller diameters of the bullets that come from the mold. There are two alloys that are even harder, Stereotype (23) and Monotype (28). The harder the alloy, the smaller diameter it will be as it comes from the mold: density.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure but I think you've got that backwards. Doesn't linotype (literally, "line-of-type") shrink much *less* than lead?

BTW, if you have any WSF powder, it's great for magnum pistol loads, but there's no reloading data available for revolver cartridges (I don't know why.) I start with Herco data minus 10% and work up from there carefully. WSF is very fine grained and meters well.
 
zxcvbob is correct. There is less shrinkage with linotype, which was the original goal of the chosen alloy. Stereotype and monotype were usually used for type that was going to be used over and over again, since the harder alloy would stand up to more use without deforming in the older printing presses. (I worked for a newspaper while going to college, and spent some time around those old typesetting machines.)

SR 4756 has been my cast bullet powder in the .41 Magnum for about the last 28 years. It's been my choice for cast bullets in .38 and .357 Magnum since about 1964 or 1965. It's a good powder for that choice.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
Bob is correct, I got it backwards. Excuse my dyslexia! I must have been having a near-senior moment even though I gave the basis for why I was being dyslexic: density!;)
 
Use at own risk:,
My loads are:
215 Lead: 5.3gr. AA#2
170 Sierra: 23gr. H110
220 Lead: 19gr. H110

The 215Gr. load was my bowling pin load.
 
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CZ, It's a no dash Nickel finish. I'll look into that powder as well. We shoot fmj and lead in our .45's & 38's depending on our need for bang mood.
thanks so much, here is a pic I don't have good ones of it yet.
Click to expand...

I'm hurt. That hour I spent with my trusty camera didn't produce any "good ones". Heck my worst pic is better than that junk you posted. That one doesn't do that purty gun justice.

BTW, good thread. You've all given him enough good info that kept us busy on a lazy Saturday afternoon.
 
Well, my last post was cut off by a power failure. Bob, I am fascinated with the potential of WSF. I've been discussing it with a fellow forum member. It is a real drag that none of the manual publishers have seen fit to do more exploration.

Your take in regards to Herco are completely solid. It's the foundation of your observations. 10% sounds good. I found some notes from a couple of years back where I'd determined (for myself) that Unique start charges would work for the lack of WSF data in magnum revolver cast loads. I've always viewed .41 magnum shooters to be a form of brotherhood. Maybe we could break new ground as a collective group in the development of good loads with WSF for all magnum revolver loads.

The powder manufacturing guys are looking in, I guarantee. Let's show 'em what we can do for them as self taught ballisticians!;)
 
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