Load for .38spl using 158gr FMJSWC

[RevolvingGarbage]

Hey guys, I'm having trouble finding a load for my .38 using 158gr jacketed semiwadcutters and either Bullseye or Unique powder. Not looking for a super hot load, just something to push these bullets at standard .38spl pressures.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

"158gr jacketed semiwadcutters"

I'm guessing those are plated bullets you're asking about. If that's true plated bullets are closer to lead than jacketed bullets and you should use load data from 158gr LSWC bullets. I'm sure you can find all the data you need for LSWC bullets.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

I'm about 100%sure these are true jacketed semi wadcutters. The package says ".357/.38 FMJ-SWC. They are fully covered in a solid jacket. Ive looked everywhere online for anyone who even makes jacketed SWC in .357dia. and i cant find any, which I suppose explains why data is so scarce.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

What is the brand name? If it's Berry's then they are plated. You really can't tell by looking at them, they look the same as jacketed bullets.

If they are real jacketed bullets there's no reason not to use load data for a JFP bullet. For the most part a JFP bullet and SWC bullet have a similar profile. If you start at the minimum charge and work your way up you will be fine. BUT, if they are plated bullets you really should be using load data for lead bullets because they are softer than jacketed bullets.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

The big problem is that I bought them from a hole in the wall shop locally (and yet, the only reloading supply store within 100 miles). They are in a baggie with the bullet type written on a sticker, but no mention of maker. up to this point I was taking the "FMJ-SWC" label to mean jacketed, but I guess if there really isnt any way to tell other than the packaging, then Im lost.

Ive loaded up just a handful to test so far, starting at 4.3grs of unique, up to 4.8grs. would it be wise to pull all of those and start over working from lead load data?

*Edit* I actually just checked, and in both my Lymans 47th and Alliant 2010 reloaders guide, my loads are still under the max charge, for a standard pressure LSWC load. I think this means I should be fine no matter whether these are closer to jacketed or lead in construction.

 

[FROGO207]

Can you call the store and ask who manufactured them? I think that the seller should at least be able to tell you. I am thinking Rainier or Berrys as the source. I have some jacketed Speer SWC but the lead and copper jacket are quite pronounced on them.

 

[EMC45]

I would say use 3-3.5gr. Bullseye and you will have a good loading for the .38 special.

 

[Sport45]

If the bullet is fully coated in copper it's more than likely plated. A FMJ bullet usually has the base exposed. The Jacket is a cup that has the lead bullet inserted and is then all swaged to final shape.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

Here's a pic:

Its hard to see but the bullet does have a cannelure. From what Ive been able to figure out online, these might be made by X-treme bullets, formerly West Coast bullets. They are supposed to have much thicker "jackets" than most plated bullets, would this change the way I should choose load data fro them? should I still simply use lead bullet data?

 

[rcmodel]

If there is no lead exposed on the base, or a seam where a copper cap was crimped under the jacket, they are plated bullets.

The lack of a real rolled-in cannelure also indicated they are plated bullets.
No way that bullet could be ejected from a bullet swaging die if the little tapered crimp groove were swaged in a jacketed bullet forming die.

The only thing I can tell you is to use mid-range jacketed bullet loading data.
Copper plated bullets are not as slick as grease lubed lead, so bore friction is higher then a lead bullet.

SO, you need to stay away from very light "starting load" or light load data for lead bullets for risk of a stuck bullet.

I think I would try 4.5 to 5.0 grains Unique, or 4.0 to 4.3 grains of Bullseye.

rc

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

Thanks RC, since the rounds Ive loaded already do fall mostly within that mid-range jacketed bullet data field, I'm thinking I will use them as my work-up, and pick which ever exact load between 4.3 and 4.8 shoots the best (and appears safe, obviously) and do the rest of these bullets up on that load.

 

[oneounceload]

and yet, the only reloading supply store within 100 miles

Not if you are in Orlando

Sieera made/makes a 180 gr and Speer made/makes a 150 gr that are similar to your pic. Don't know if Remington did as well. Sounds like he might have bought a bulk order loose and broke it down to smaller packages at one time

Added: Otherwise they look like the West Coast Bullet's (now Xtreme Bullet) 158 plated SWC

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

Not if you are in Orlando

The place I'm talking about is Space Coast Bullets in Melbourne, FL. I live right around downtown Orlando.

I looked online and asked around trying to find a dedicated reloading store, and the only one I could find was Space Coast. If you or anyone else knows of a different place (besides bass-pro or gander mountain etc) that stocks reloading stuff, I would love to know about it, especially if its any closer to Orlando.

As a side note, I know I called Space Coast a "hole in the wall", but that's only because the shop is tiny, as in a decent sized master bathroom tiny. For being so small, that place is packed to the gills with stuff. Basically anything you could or would want for reloading or shooting, that place has it all, and the people running it know their stuff.

 

[zxcvbob]

Ive loaded up just a handful to test so far, starting at 4.3grs of unique, up to 4.8grs. would it be wise to pull all of those and start over working from lead load data?

That range should be about perfect.

 

[y5e06]

sacrifice one.
cut it open to verify the jacket or plating. that will eliminate most of the uncertainty.
you own a hacksaw or even heavy wire cutters, right?

 

[snuffy]

Yup, west coast plated bullets. I have several hundred left of an order of 1K I got 5-6 years back. Haven't been able to get a real accurate load using them in several .357's, but I'd rather do work ups for my home cast lead.

From what I've read about the plated bullets, Ranier is the thinnest plating, Berrys is second, and WC/Extreme is the heaviest. Also extreme double strikes ALL their bullets,(meaning they're sized after plating.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

sacrifice one.
cut it open to verify the jacket or plating. that will eliminate most of the uncertainty.
you own a hacksaw or even heavy wire cutters, right?

Already have cut one open, honestly It looks just like if you cut open a bonded jacketed bullet to me. You have a copper outer layer, and a lead core.

Xtreme bullets plated semi-wadcutters seems likely to me, so that's what I'm going with. I will be sure to post results when i test my first small batch.

 

[Walkalong]

They look just like the X-Treme 158 Gr SWC bullets I have.

The X-Treme 158 Gr SWC @ 1.440 O.A.L. and 3.5 Grs of Competition with a WSP primer or 3.6 Grs Competition with a CCI SP primer shoots very well.

.1 Gr less of Clays also shoots very well.

700X does well too.

This is a light load that will give around 675 to 725 FPS from a 6" barrel. If you want to drive it a bit faster AA #2 is a good choice. Faster than that, Unique is a good way to go. They will hold up to shooting at 1150 to 1200 FPS with no problem.

This happens to be loaded in .357 brass, but it is what I had a pic of.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

Well I don't think I'm going to be pushing these bullets to 1200 FPS from my RG40

What I was thinking I wanted with these was a good general purpose, heavy bullet load, something that would give more "feedback" at the range than a target FMJ, and would have more punch and penetration than a 130gr hollowpoint for wildlife defense.

 

[Sport45]

and would have more punch and penetration than a 130gr hollowpoint for wildlife defense.

I don't know what kind of wildlife you are defending yourself against in Orlando, but plated bullets wouldn't top my list of choices. They are basically a soft, swaged bullet with a thin copper plating. They deform easily so I wouldn't count on them to penetrate any better than a good JHP. For penetration I'd expect a 158gr cast SWC to hold up better.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

Wildlife here would mostly mean wild pigs or dogs. I know these bullets aren't especially "hard", its more for the weight that I think they would be better than my current defense ammo. Its not likely that a 158gr hollowpoint would expand at standard pressure .38spl velocity anway, so I don't think the extra expense is justified.

 

[lwknight]

Wildlife here would mostly mean wild pigs or dogs.

Wild pigs or wild hogs?
A domestic hog can weigh 550 pounds at 2 years old. A wild that weighs 300 pounds might be 3 or 4 years old and have a well developed shoulder plate that a 38 spl would not even penetrate , let alone kill.
Just a word of caution there.
I might add that if I were going into hog country , a 158 grain .357 magnum with a non hollow point bullet would be minimum.
I have a friend that tried to kill a wild hog with a 9mm. He unloaded the gun on it at close range and did not put it down before it ran off. Probably to die in the brush where no one should ever go after a wounded hog.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

Getting sort of off topic here, but I mean wild pigs, and I can tell he difference. Ive run into them out in the woods on fishing treks, usually in packs of 2 or 3. These are either dark, spotted pink or black pigs, short hair and short tails, usually no larger than big dog sized. The last time I had an encounter, they saw me before i saw them, with about 40 feet between us.

They made a lot of noise and watched me while I slowly backed away, armed with nothing but a 6" fixed blade knife. I certainly feel like a .38spl with a heavy bullet placed properly would be better than just the knife if one had decided to come at me.