Loading 45-70 Black Powder

[wmgeorge]

I have my new stainless CVA single shot ordered and its on the way. I have some Trail Boss and 3F real black on hand plus some 405 Gr lead bullets ordered. I know about compressing the black and I was thinking of say 50 grains by volume and a greased felt wad on top and some Cream of Wheat to fill the case. Am I missing anything? I want a mild to medium load just to poke holes in paper with.

 

[King Medallion]

You must have black powder lubed bullets, such as SPG lube. Smokeless powder lube won't cut it, you'll have leading and fouling buildup after your 1st shot.

 

[wmgeorge]

I use Bore Butter on all my black powder shooting stuff.

 

[Chicken-Farmer]

Get yourself some Ballistol and make up a spray bottle of moose milk. Typical loading 70 grains of black powder, so you may need some filler for a compressed load. 50 grains should be a powder puff load for sure.

 

[Pete D.]

Not so much powder puff. The US Cavalry developed a "carbine" load for use on horseback which was a 405 grain lead RN bullet over 55 grains of BP.

 

[wmgeorge]

I am wondering if I need the 45-70 factory crimp die for any load? This is for the CVA single shot stainless I just purchased.

 

[Chuck R.]

I am wondering if I need the 45-70 factory crimp die for any load? This is for the CVA single shot stainless I just purchased.

I competed with; .45-70, .45-90, .45-100, and .40-70 all single shots.

I've never crimped a single round. As a matter of fact the .45-100 and .40-70- were "slip fit", I didn't even size the brass, just let the bullet sit on top of the wad after compressing the powder.

 

[PapaG]

The load I shot for years in a 7mm Rolling Block converted to 45-70 was as follows. Winchester case (I have one that has been fired over sixty times). I never sized nor trimmed it as I was shooting matches and reloading after each shot.
When loading for silhouette matches the batch was loaded the same as the single with the exception of about 3/8" of neck sizing.
Prime, Winchester large rifle primer. Five grains of Red Dot or DuPont Bulk Shotgun smokeless on the primer. 55 grains of Ffg DuPont black. You can use GOI. Disc cut from milk carton (waxed cardboard, not plastic). A 1/4" lube disc, I used Javalina lube. Another card. Bullet. Lyman 457124 sized to .458 and lubed with Javalina. (Alox/beeswax). Bullet slipped into case and tight against charge.
Shoots clean all day and produced 1.5MOA at 100 and a best of 3 5/16 at 200 for five shots.
Two wet, two dry and an oiled final.patch is all the cleaning needed.
I recently got a NEF 45-70 and am going to load some of these for it. Some cases required the black to be cut to 50 grains.
I liked the nose of the bullet to be in the rifling somewhat. I did some shooting with the bullet seated all the way in and wads to fill the case so the base was touching the charge but saw no increase in accuracy.
Good luck.
Or just get some SPG lined bullets, seat them on 55-60 grains of Black and blast away. You're not going to get 70 grains in there without a drop tube and some serious compression.

 

[whughett]

I shoot 45/70 full compressed loads, 2F Goex and a 405 bullet, off a bench rest. Recoil is, IMO, less than a 30/30 Winchester in a carbine.
I should note however that this Pedersoli is a 13 pound 28” heavy barreled rifle, so that mitigates much of the recoil.

 

[Chuck R.]

Or just get some SPG lined bullets, seat them on 55-60 grains of Black and blast away. You're not going to get 70 grains in there without a drop tube and some serious compression.

I always use a drop tube, and depending on the powder he may need compression to get a clean burn.

I only played with Goex, then Swiss and once I made the jump to Swiss I never went back. Goex needed compression, and the guys shooting Elephant said the same. Swiss required minimum, and was/is the most consistent powder going.

It's not a big deal, just part of load development and you use a compression plug to seat the wad anyway.

OP,

IF you PM me with an Email address I'll send you a copy of an article I wrote on loading BPCRs that was published in Single Shot Exchange "back in the day".

 

[MEHavey]

You can use a drop tube -- OR -- you can just vibrate it down in the case after filling... just as effective,
Either way, about ⅛" compression beyond that is a good point of departure.

.

 

[PapaG]

I shoot 45/70 full compressed loads, 2F Goex and a 405 bullet, off a bench rest. Recoil is, IMO, less than a 30/30 Winchester in a carbine.
I should note however that this Pedersoli is a 13 pound 28” heavy barreled rifle, so that mitigates much of the recoil.

My Rolling Block had a30” 1 1/8” full octagon barrel. It soaked up the recoil also. The H&R - NEFs, not so much. Had a “Buffalo Classic” for a brief while.

 

[Jim Watson]

.45-70 is not much fun for me. I started BPCR with a .38-55 and moved up to a .40-65 for assured knockdown of metallic silhouette targets. Loaded with Swiss 1 1/2 Fg through drop tube, compressed only about the thickness of a cardboard wad with a die, Bullet seated to touch wad. Fired cases decapped on the range and brought home in a jug of soapy water. Cases cleaned in a wet rotary tumbler with ceramic or steel pin media, oven dried. Sized, flared, and primed. Repeat.

I clean the rifle on the range with whichever aqueous mix is in style, redo at home.

 

[Chuck R.]

.45-70 is not much fun for me. I started BPCR with a .38-55 and moved up to a .40-65 for assured knockdown of metallic silhouette targets. Loaded with Swiss 1 1/2 Fg through drop tube, compressed only about the thickness of a cardboard wad with a die, Bullet seated to touch wad. Fired cases decapped on the range and brought home in a jug of soapy water. Cases cleaned in a wet rotary tumbler with ceramic or steel pin media, oven dried. Sized, flared, and primed. Repeat.

I clean the rifle on the range with whichever aqueous mix is in style, redo at home.

I know what you mean.

When I started with BPCRs I bought a lightly used C-Sharps 1875 in .45-70 with a 34" lightweight barrel. It was "OK" for what I was doing at the time which was CAS side matches. The .45-70 with 500+ bullets in a "sporter" weight BPRC sucked over long strings. When I started in with the long range and buffalo matches I moved to a Shiloh 74 32" #1 Sporting with a 32" barrel in .45-100. Great cartridge for long range and buff matches due to the lower round count, but overweight and completely unsuitable for silhouette. It would push a ram off the rail, then let it fall though. Never "rang" a single tgt with it, but also didn't do well with it. I think a lot of the felt recoil had to do with prone VS sitting though.

When I moved to silhouette, I bought a Ballard R&C 1885 Special Sporting High-Wall .45-90 with 32" barrel, which barely made weight. I possibly thought I was the next Butch Ulsher.. The recoil for 40rd banks frankly sucked, but I did shoot my way into AAA with it. Later I had them build me another 1885 Special Sporting .40-70Win (modified) with a custom chamber that the NRA approved due to it's similarity to the .40-70W and 40-82, same basic modification that was down to the .40-65.

The guys that designed the chamber/reamer designed it to utilize Starline .45 2.4" brass and shoot a 420grn Paul Jones Postell with all the grease grooves covered, basically slightly more speed than a .40-65, 1300FPS. With that I did well and shot my way into Master class.

I've still got the rifles and tools, added a Ballard 1885 Low-Wall in .22LR to mimic my .40-70 just to practice off-hand. I think the heyday of BPCRs is over now, unless they make a remake of Quigley Down Under, it seems to be a dying sport. A couple of us are talking about hitting the Quigley this year, So who know, maybe it will re-ignite the spark..