Loading gates and tubes

[Venom007]

Henry keeps their (far superior) front loading because it is the traditional way that their original 1860 rifle was loaded when they invented it in the Civil War. It is a tradition for them and they have ZERO plans to change it. I've talked with their customer service about it.

The front tube loading is ridiculously superior to the gate. It can be loaded quicker and unloaded far more safely than a gate, allows effortless cleaning of the mag tube, and is simpler and less snaggy than the gates. It is truly superior and I hope Henry never gets rid of it for the frankly stupid loading gates found on some other inferior guns.

 

[Venom007]

You bet your bippy the Russians issued the things. They were so short of Mosin Nagants they had to order rifles from the United States.


View attachment 799543


Incidentally, Americans carried American made Mosin Nagants when the US invaded the Russian port of Vladivostok.

339th Infantry Regiment
View attachment 799544

Many don't know the Mosin Nagant was not only an American made rifle, but also an issued American service rifle that saw combat usage by Americas... amazing pictures!

 

[DPris]

Venom,
You're a little bit off.

Henry today has no relationship whatever to the original Henry rifles, or BT Henry who invented it, and there was never a Henry company till this one started out in the mid-1990s.

And Customer Service may possibly not have been entirely.....accurate.... about zero plans to change it.
Denis

 

[chicharrones]

And Customer Service may possibly not have been entirely.....accurate.... about zero plans to change it.
Denis

That. Will. Be. Interesting.

 

[GBExpat]

My (1st of 2) 1983 .44mag Marlin 1894S, with its Williams 5D rear aperture sight, woven nylon sling and paracord-wrapped lever ring weighs 6lb6.5oz. A Henry Big Boy(?) lists an in the box weight of more than 2lbs over that (~8lb11oz IIRC).

That is the primary factor that has kept me from seriously considering buying a big bore Henry. Nothing to do with the fact that it does not sport a loading gate (which, btw, I still prefer ... possibly an illogical leftover from all of the cowboy stuff I watched in the 50s & 60s).

If I lived on a really big spread (both of my heavily-wooded farms come in at only 150± acres/ea) and my horse/jeep/truck was carrying the rifle, I might go for the Henry but since my shoulder will be providing transportation for the rifle, that additional weight is the real deal-killer for me.

Yes, the extra weight of the Henry tames the recoil better, but I have never been recoil-averse, so ...

 

[someguy2800]

1860 henry mag tube. You push the follower up with your thumb and the end of the tube rotates to the side. Cartridges drop in from the open end.



Henry big boy mag tube. The follower is inside a brass tube that telescopes out the end and rounds are dropped through a bullet shaped cutout.



These two designs share nothing in common other than being tube shaped.

 

[fpgt72]

Most people seem to talk about how it's such a big advantage to 'top up' through the loading gate.

A Big Boy holds ten rounds... what's so important about being able to easily 'top up' during plinking or hunting? Most people aren't buying Henry Big Boys for combat or defense. And I don't see what's important about quickly 'topping up' the tube while you're in the middle of firing a group, or after shooting one of your ten rounds at a deer.

It's another option and it has its own advantages as well.

This is why people buy them, they are on the shelf and you can still have fun with them.....but facts are facts, Historically what system won, Lever or bolt, black powder or smokeless, tube loading or gate, to go back to the "other" thread bicycle with one big wheel in front or the "modern bicycle....

And you know all systems I just talked about are still in use....and people still use all those products....and people enjoy the heck out of them....but history chose the winner and it is not the tube.

 

[fpgt72]

1860 henry mag tube. You push the follower up with your thumb and the end of the tube rotates to the side. Cartridges drop in from the open end.

View attachment 799571

Henry big boy mag tube. The follower is inside a brass tube that telescopes out the end and rounds are dropped through a bullet shaped cutout.

View attachment 799572

These two designs share nothing in common other than being tube shaped.

Nothing in common....oh for Petes sake.....they load from the muzzle end....that is a very common trait.

You are really fishing that hard....you can't hope to stand on that position...what do we see in the photos...pics of the dangerous end of the gun....you load by dropping boolits into the end where they come out...exact same way of loading cartridges into each rifle.....

good grief charlie brown.

 

[fpgt72]

Venom,
You're a little bit off.

Henry today has no relationship whatever to the original Henry rifles, or BT Henry who invented it, and there was never a Henry company till this one started out in the mid-1990s.

And Customer Service may possibly not have been entirely.....accurate.... about zero plans to change it.
Denis

None at all, just like springfield has no relationship with the "real" springfield.

He is way off in all his comments.

Oh wait I am on his ignore he can't defend his positions as well.

 

[Jason_W]

Is it possible to load the Henry with the action open?

 

[someguy2800]

Nothing in common....oh for Petes sake.....they load from the muzzle end....that is a very common trait.

You are really fishing that hard....you can't hope to stand on that position...what do we see in the photos...pics of the dangerous end of the gun....you load by dropping boolits into the end where they come out...exact same way of loading cartridges into each rifle.....

good grief charlie brown.

Those two are nothing at all alike. If you can't see the difference your either blind or dense.

 

[eastbank]

the 1860 lever action went out of style pretty quick, with the advent of the 1866. the 1866 desing took care of most of the faults found in the 1860,s.

 

[DPris]

Jason,
The Henry centerfire handgun-calibered leverguns are essentially modified Marlins.
Like any Marlin or Winchester/clone levergun, you can direct-chamber-load through the ejection port or frame top with the action open.

As with any conventional Marlin, you can immediately drop a round into the open side ejection port & close the action on it for the fastest follow-up shot if you need one, after running the mag dry.

Same deal with the Winchester design- you just drop a round in the top of the open action and close the lever.

It's been done this way for well over a century & a half.
You can keep up a fairly good rate of fire loading this way, using the gun as a single-shot if you don't have time to fully reload.
If you need a fast shot on an empty magazine, you waste time by loading it through the gate & then cycling the action.

It CAN be done with the older 1860/1866/1873 toggle-action guns, but takes some fiddling.
Denis

 

[chicharrones]

My (1st of 2) 1983 .44mag Marlin 1894S, with its Williams 5D rear aperture sight, woven nylon sling and paracord-wrapped lever ring weighs 6lb6.5oz. A Henry Big Boy(?) lists an in the box weight of more than 2lbs over that (~8lb11oz IIRC).

That is the primary factor that has kept me from seriously considering buying a big bore Henry. Nothing to do with the fact that it does not sport a loading gate (which, btw, I still prefer ... possibly an illogical leftover from all of the cowboy stuff I watched in the 50s & 60s).

If I lived on a really big spread (both of my heavily-wooded farms come in at only 150± acres/ea) and my horse/jeep/truck was carrying the rifle, I might go for the Henry but since my shoulder will be providing transportation for the rifle, that additional weight is the real deal-killer for me.

Yes, the extra weight of the Henry tames the recoil better, but I have never been recoil-averse, so ...

Sounds like the weight of the brass receiver versions. The later introduced Big Boy Steel rifle and carbine in .44 Mag weigh 7 lbs. and 6.6 lbs., respectively.
https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/henry-big-boy-steel/

 

[chicharrones]

Is it possible to load the Henry with the action open?

Jason,
The Henry centerfire handgun-calibered leverguns are essentially modified Marlins.
Like any Marlin or Winchester/clone levergun, you can direct-chamber-load through the ejection port or frame top with the action open.

As with any conventional Marlin, you can immediately drop a round into the open side ejection port & close the action on it for the fastest follow-up shot if you need one, after running the mag dry.

Same deal with the Winchester design- you just drop a round in the top of the open action and close the lever.

It's been done this way for well over a century & a half.
You can keep up a fairly good rate of fire loading this way, using the gun as a single-shot if you don't have time to fully reload.
If you need a fast shot on an empty magazine, you waste time by loading it through the gate & then cycling the action.

It CAN be done with the older 1860/1866/1873 toggle-action guns, but takes some fiddling.
Denis

I think he is asking about the action being open while loading a front loading magazine tube.

 

[DPris]

Ah.
Pardon me.

Of course the Henry magazine can be loaded through the tube with the action open.
No safety issue involved.
Why would it NOT be possible?

I'm still missing the issue, I guess.
Denis

 

[Slamfire]

I have had cartridges eject through the loading gate on my 44 Magnum Marlin 1894. Trying to load the last rounds, the spring pressure gets high, and it is difficult to shove the last cartridge in. I don't recall cartridges ejecting in my 30-30 M336, but I don't doubt it. And, let me say, getting the last couple of rounds in the magazine, can be a thumb buster. I recall I took the gate spring out and removed burrs and a sharp edge on the receiver opening. Something in there was abrading my thumb.

Wabi Sabi: nothing is perfect, nothing is finished, and nothing lasts

 

[Jason_W]

I have had cartridges eject through the loading gate on my 44 Magnum Marlin 1894. Trying to load the last rounds, the spring pressure gets high, and it is difficult to shove the last cartridge in. I don't recall cartridges ejecting in my 30-30 M336, but I don't doubt it. And, let me say, getting the last couple of rounds in the magazine, can be a thumb buster. I recall I took the gate spring out and removed burrs and a sharp edge on the receiver opening. Something in there was abrading my thumb.

Wabi Sabi: nothing is perfect, nothing is finished, and nothing lasts

A lot of loading gates also have very sharp edges.

My next levergun will likely be a Henry. No one else makes one in .41 mag right now. That round has been intriguing me lately.

 

[Gary A]

I’ve been reading all the threads and posts about tubes versus gates. I have both. I do overall prefer the gate but there are some nice things about the tube, including unloading the rifle. When I load my Henry, however, I don’t seem to find my hand or fingers in front of the muzzle. Also, I don’t imagine ever removing the tube to top off a partially loaded rifle but that could happen, I guess. When I load the Henry, there is no round in the chamber so any concern about my fingers and the muzzle seems slight. I can see it could be an issue under certain conditions but knowing the rifle should minimize that. It is true that, run dry, a Henry is a very slick loading single shot which seems to easily accept and chamber any round that is thrown into the side ejection port except one inserted backwards.

 

[Jack B.]

The brass receiver,octagon barrel and 44magnum caliber is what sold me on my Big Boy. I could care less how you load. If loading speed was a real concern then nobody would own a single action pistol.

 

[eastbank]

the horse has died, no reason to beat it any more. buy and use what you want, no minds are being changed here.

 

[somethingbenign]

the horse has died, no reason to beat it any more. buy and use what you want, no minds are being changed here.

What was this thread about again? It certainly wasn't about the merits of each option. I'll have to be more careful in my titles to avoid confusion next time...

 

[chicharrones]

What was this thread about again? It certainly wasn't about the merits of each option. I'll have to be more careful in my titles to avoid confusion next time...

You mentioned a lever gun with both gate loading and front tube loading. It sounds like a great way to do everything. Load at the gate for "tactical" top-ups and dump the tube empty for quick unloading. The quick unloading is more necessary than ever with all the urban and suburban shooters we have these days (me included) that need to clear a gun in hurry for a called cease fire at the local shootin' range.

 

[mcb]

First I never realized side gate loading vs tube loading was such a hotly debated topic. Seems like there is room for either or both and even both on the same gun in someone collection if they desire it.

I know it is sort of sacrilege but one of the reasons I like the various safeties added to modern version of side gate loaded lever guns is for unloading. I never use these add-on safety when I am carrying the gun, hammer down is sufficient for me. But I like the option to engage the cross-block or firing pin block safety when I am unloading my lever gun. Make it a bit safer as I quickly cycle the magazine empty. YMMV

 

[fpgt72]

First I never realized side gate loading vs tube loading was such a hotly debated topic. Seems like there is room for either or both and even both on the same gun in someone collection if they desire it.

I know it is sort of sacrilege but one of the reasons I like the various safeties added to modern version of side gate loaded lever guns is for unloading. I never use these add-on safety when I am carrying the gun, hammer down is sufficient for me. But I like the option to engage the cross-block or firing pin block safety when I am unloading my lever gun. Make it a bit safer as I quickly cycle the magazine empty. YMMV

Sure there is room for both, as I have said on both threads, these guns are toys....we can have toys any way we want them. My point is that history chose the gate over the tube...some people can't get bast that history chose the gate as the better system. Some also have issues accepting that most would rather have the gate when it came down to it, for no other reason then that is the way John Wayne did it.

Same goes with the safety....If I have a round in the chamber this is what half cock is for, and is a safe way to carry it...I like it the "way it was" then again I shoot my trapdoor with black powder, so you can see what camp I fall into, even if it is a lever gun in 357 I want it history.