Local Leo enforce federal law?

[RandyRay41]

This may be a dumb question. But will the local Leo enforce say a federal law? For lnstance the fed domestic violence law ( which is absolutely ridiculous ). Under alabama law that is not a crime that banns you from possessing. If a person was stopped with a rifle and has a conviction for domestic violence will the local Leo arrest you on those charges or will he have to get fed authorities involved.

Wonder how many local Leo s will even car if you have a firearm since its not illegal in the state of alabama.

 

[JohnKSa]

If the officer knows you are breaking a federal law, you will almost certainly be arrested and held for the federal authorities.

 

[Dr_B]

How about this: Robbing a bank is a federal offense and any cop who catches you can arrest you for it. Kidnap someone, take them across state lines... federal offense. The FBI will investigate you, but if a cop catches you first you can be arrested.

 

[Davek1977]

If you have a domestic violence conviction, I wouldn't want to be caught with a weapon by any LEO on any of the 50 states unless I was found of orange jumpsuits, bars, and a loss of freedom. You can be held and detained by local officials, but the case would end up being tried in a federal court.

 

[gbran]

But feds don't want state or local leo's enforcing federal border or imigration law. Go figure.

 

[NavyLCDR]

For lnstance the fed domestic violence law ( which is absolutely ridiculous ). Under alabama law that is not a crime that banns you from possessing. If a person was stopped with a rifle and has a conviction for domestic violence will the local Leo arrest you on those charges or will he have to get fed authorities involved.

You might want to read Alabama law:

Section 13A-11-58.1
Improper transfer of firearm or weapon; providing false information to dealer.

(b) A person who knowingly solicits, persuades, encourages, or entices a licensed dealer or private seller of a firearm or ammunition to transfer a firearm or ammunition under circumstances which the person knows would violate the laws of this state or the United States is guilty of a Class C felony.

So, if the person with a domestic violence conviction is found to be in possession of a rifle, there is now probable cause to investigate whether the state law above was violated or not.

More in general, it is common law (citizen's arrest) that any person who observes a crime committed in their presence can detain the person they observe committing the crime until they can be turned over to law enforcement authorities with jurisdiction. The same is true for Federal violations - local law enforcement can detain the person until they can be remanded to the Federal authorities.

 

[Midwest]

How about the 1000 foot 'gun free school zone'? It is a Federal Law but have there been any publicized cases where LEO's anyone for having a firearm in their person and readily available (without a permit) within that zone?


By the way...does anyone have an idea how far 1000 feet really is? Someone took pictures of how 100, 250, 500 and 1000 feet look in perspective to each other. You might find this interesting....

http://www.prisonpolicy.org/zones/thousand_feet.html

"One author then stood on the school’s property line and took pictures of another author at various distances from the property. Each image at left is a closeup of the actual photograph at right. "



is a federal law, but have LEO's

 

[Tirod]

As far as the majority of LEO's go, a bust is a bust. If it's a good case, few would back off just because it was federal law and not local.

The elephant in the room getting ignored is why any one person would be noticeable in any of the situations. I used to live within a thousand feet of a school, nobody came door to door to inform me I might be in violation of the law. I could carry my guns out the door within sight of the school and children walking down the street to get to it, nobody cared. Local police don't go out of their way looking to create nuisance suits against the department - the risks for public officials are too high.

Some laws are made to be enforced after the fact - imagine the uproar if a local jurisdiction attempted to search homes within a thousand feet of a school to enforce the law. That did in fact happen looking for the Boston Marathon bombers, and I suspect the legal fallout is yet to hit the ground. Same during Katrina - house to house searches to disarm residents were stopped in federal court very quickly.

There is a very specific exercise of decision making that an LEO does in enforcing the law. It's called Officer Discretion, that extension of logical thought in determining if a citizen is actually attempting to commit a crime or just going about their own business. One good example is whether you get a ticket for speeding when you are a concealed carry license holder.

Let's be honest, how many of us got off with nothing more than a verbal warning? Nailed dead to rights on radar, "Hey, let's keep it down out there." the admonition. Frankly, I've come to the conclusion I was cluttering up their day, and have. Some.

If you are within a 1000 feet of a school, why would an officer even notice you? Wearing a long trench coat and hoodie with something long obviously hidden underneath as you glance about nervously walking toward the playground at recess? Why are you not at work like all your other neighbors? Goes to officer discretion - most of it is just common sense.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Some laws are made to be enforced after the fact - imagine the uproar if a local jurisdiction attempted to search homes within a thousand feet of a school to enforce the law.

Hopefully the uproar would be great since private property is exempt from the Federal 1000' school zone prohibition:

18 USC 922 (q):

(2) (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual
knowingly to possess a firearm
that has moved in or that otherwise affects
interstate or foreign commerce at
a place that the individual knows, or
has reasonable cause to believe, is a
school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not
apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of
school grounds;

 

[Twiki357]

It may be different in some states, but as far as I know, local law enforcement MAY, but generally are not required to enforce Federal laws. That being said, most states usually have laws on the books that mirror Federal laws. Then there are also states that have laws that are in direct conflict with Federal laws. In other words, it’s a crap shoot depending on the LEO and the location. 

 

[ChaoSS]

Already been said, but I'll sum it up.

1. LEO can detain and wait for federals to show up.

2. Many local laws mirror federal laws, and the local leo can charge you with local crimes, and let the feds do their thing, since you are now in custody.

3. In many instances, when local laws don't mirror the federal laws, they require compliance. For example, there may be a law that says that a gun may be carried if it is owned legally under local and federal law.

4. In some instances local LE is directly authorized to enforce federal law. I'm pretty sure that's how Highway Patrol enforces federal laws in regards to commercial drivers.

 

[Ranger Roberts]

Something that should be brought up is that LEO's aren't lawyers. In PA we spend about 27 weeks in the police academy. It's longer than most states academies. I know a lot of laws but there is no way to know all of them! If we are building a case against someone, generally speaking we call the district attorney and explain the case to him. He will advise us what the charges are going to be.

If I suspect that federal laws have been broken, you can guarantee that I will arrest you. I will charge you with what ever I can to hold you until the case can be turned over to the DA. That is something they will sort out while I move onto the next bad guy!

 

[NavyLCDR]

If I suspect that federal laws have been broken, you can guarantee that I will arrest you. I will charge you with what ever I can to hold you until the case can be turned over to the DA. That is something they will sort out while I move onto the next bad guy!

So, I am curious about your statement. You stop someone for speeding in a school zone and they present you with an out of state carry permit and inform you that they have a concealed handgun on their person. Do you arrest them for violating the Federal 1000' School Zone prohibition?

 

[pikid89]

the SO where i grew up made the news a while back for arresting a guy for constructive possession. Sold a "MP5K" pistol, and also sold a stock to a plainclothes deputy. No local ordinances or laws on SBR or constructive possession so they were out doing stings for federal laws

 

[armsmaster270]

Feds cannot enforce city or state laws, but city cops can enforce federal laws, state & city laws.

 

[GRIZ22]

Many states give Federal LEOs jurisdiction in state laws giving them police powers.

There are Federal court decisions that require Federal LEOs to "take appropriate action" if a state violation is commited in their presence.

US Marshals have the same authority as a sheriff anywhere in the US (see 28 USC chapter 4, section 564). IIRC this was known as the "Sheriff's Relief Act" in the late 1800s.

State and local LEOs have authority given them by Federal law to do a lot of different things. State and local LEOs assigned to Federal Task Forces (like JTTF under the Justice Dept). They are deputized or cross designated to enforce all Federal laws. Their are no issues with state,and local LEOs enforcing Federal laws.

The issue with state and local LEOs enforcing immigration and border laws (as someone mentioned) is most of them are not criminal but administrative violations. There is also the complexity of those laws themselves. If you find a Cuban hitchhiking on Route 1 on Marathon Key who tells you he just paddled in from Havana is he illegal? Can an individual bring pork products from Ireland?

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I'll repeat myself on this issue:

27 Mar 2013, morning news: http://www.timesnews.net/ "Drone legislation advances; U.N., gun bills fail in House subcommittee "

A bill in the Tennessee State Legislature introduced by State Rep. James Van Huss to bar state or local officials from infringing on the state constitutional right of the citizens of this state to keep and bear arms by enforcing a federal gun ban failed in committee.

State Rep. Vance Dennis argued against the bill, pointing out it is already against state law for state or local officials to violate the law or state constitution in enforcing federal law so Van Huss' bill simply "codified what is already existing law" and "It does not do anything". That is, it does not do anything new, so a new law is not needed.

 

[Ranger Roberts]

NavyLCDR: So, I am curious about your statement. You stop someone for speeding in a school zone and they present you with an out of state carry permit and inform you that they have a concealed handgun on their person. Do you arrest them for violating the Federal 1000' School Zone prohibition?

I think it really comes down to officer discretion. If you were speeding in a school zone, I don't think anything other than a speeding ticket is necessary. If you were cordial and admitted you messed up, you probably would drive off with just a warning. Now if I roll up and someone was standing on a street corner 50 ft from a school punching a street sign and screaming about bugs crawling under their skin, then they present me with an out of state carry permit and inform me that they are carrying a sidearm... different story...

The statement I made in an earlier post was directed more towards serious offenses not towards minor traffic violations. Sorry I wasn't more clear Commander, a lot of times I type this out on my phone and I lose my train of thought!

 

[NavyLCDR]

Thank you for a very reasonable answer, RR.

 

[AlaskaMan]

Feds cannot enforce city or state laws, but city cops can enforce federal laws, state & city laws.

Not exactly. 18 USC 13 allows for the federal assimilation of many non-federal crimes. Within certain fenceposts, many state crimes can be charged in federal court.

Additionally, many federal agencies have adoption provisions in the Codes of Federal Regulations to allow agencies to charge state or local law in federal court.

As far as non-federal agencies (ie state or local) enforcing federal laws/regulations...they can be detained for a "reasonable" period but arrested? Hope your liability insurance is paid up. Arresting for a federal charge has it's own rules which may be significantly different than arresting for a state charge. It depends on the Local Rules of the Court for the district. There really isn't a one-size-fits-all answer for this.