Lock n load AP questions

[blackd24]

I set up my press, in-line plate secure to the bench. I set up the priming system and made sure the timing was correct. I then installed the bushings and all of the dies except for the powder die (waiting on PTX insert). I ran some brass through and made dummy rounds to confirm set up. (This is 9mm). My target was 1.12 for seating depth, which I achieved when only running one dummy round through the press. When I ran a piece of brass in each station, the seating depth was 1.13. Each separate instance was consistent, just one hundredth longer when each station was occupied. I am using Lee dies.

Is this to be expected? I would assume there is some play in the shell plate when resizing and may shift to one direction as the resizing die grabs the brass. Station 1 is resize/deprime, 2 is powder measure/expand, 3 is powder cop, 4 is seater, 5 is taper crimp.

I would think if this is the case, I could never run just one piece through it my dies are set up in progressive mode, I.e. dialed in when there is brass in each station and expect the OAL to be 1.12.

Let me know if you have experienced similar results.

 

[Skgreen]

Yes, I have. If the sizing die bottoms out on the shell plate, it usually only affects the OAL
You can separate the first (and last) 5 rounds from the rest if it bothers you.

 

[Blue68f100]

All stations full makes a difference. What your seeing is pretty normal, but normally only changes around 0.005" with high quality bullets. When setting up the LNL I start with 1 die at a time, till I'm happy then add the next station and work around. Once satisfied I will run 1 brass through as a check if good, I start full AP. You will learn how much to allow to comp for on the seating die. Without the sizing operation going in there is very little change in OAL.

 

[9mmepiphany]

This is pretty normal due to the pressure/leverage of dies on opposite sides of the plate. I've found two ways to address this and have used both depending on what I'm loading.

1. I seat with a Redding Competition Seating die. OAL is adjustable with a micrometer and each tick mark is .001". I set the OAL with one case and then dial in an extra ten clicks when starting my loading run. When the last case drops from my case loader and I've sized it, I dial out the ten extra clicks.

2. I switch my dies around and run cases through twice. The first run is Decap, Prime, Size, and Expand (usually stations 1, 1.5, 3, and 4)...then I store them away until I want to load them.

When I'm ready to load, I'll install the Expander, Powder Measure, Powder Check, Seat, and Crimp. I've found that this gives me more consistent OAL and powder drops as the loading action is smoother. This is the beauty of the LNL, it allows easy repositioning of dies

 

[ImjinScout85]

As others have mentioned this is not unusual and I see the same thing until dialed in with brass in all stations. I tend to see a difference of .003 to .005 during a loading session and I think a lot of this is due to the variations in the bullet more than the press. I can have 5 or 6 in a row that hit my OAL but then I can get one that my be .005 shorter, and that is why I tend to think the bullet tolerance comes into play.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I tend to see a difference of .003 to .005 during a loading session and I think a lot of this is due to the variations in the bullet more than the press. I can have 5 or 6 in a row that hit my OAL but then I can get one that my be .005 shorter, and that is why I tend to think the bullet tolerance comes into play.

I usually avoid that by loading RMR Match Winners

 

[Walkalong]

This is pretty normal due to the pressure/leverage of dies on opposite sides of the plate. I've found two ways to address this and have used both depending on what I'm loading.

1. I seat with a Redding Competition Seating die. OAL is adjustable with a micrometer and each tick mark is .001". I set the OAL with one case and then dial in an extra ten clicks when starting my loading run. When the last case drops from my case loader and I've sized it, I dial out the ten extra clicks.

2. I switch my dies around and run cases through twice. The first run is Decap, Prime, Size, and Expand (usually stations 1, 1.5, 3, and 4)...then I store them away until I want to load them.

When I'm ready to load, I'll install the Expander, Powder Measure, Powder Check, Seat, and Crimp. I've found that this gives me more consistent OAL and powder drops as the loading action is smoother. This is the beauty of the LNL, it allows easy repositioning of dies

I do # 2, so re-adjust the seater in reverse fashion from #1, as I also do not size during loading on mine, I use pre-sized/hand primed cases as well.

When using station four to seat and station five to crimp and am not seating/crimping together, I adjust my seater in station four .005 higher to start, then start adding cases, and seat a bullet in station 4. Once that is seated, and it is headed to station 5 for the crimp, I adjust the seater down .005, then pull the handle again, flaring a case, seating a bullet, and crimping a round. This flexes the press a bit, which is why the seater now has to be adjusted down .005 more (Funny how it's almost always right at .005). I have no press flex from sizing, since it was done prior to loading, but I do get a little from crimping.

Not sizing during loading makes things go much smoother, giving a better feel for the flaring, seating, and crimping operations.

 

[Walkalong]

I usually avoid that by loading RMR Match Winners

That (Flat point bullet), no sizing during loading, and a flat seater stem give little to no OAL variation.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

That (Flat point bullet), no sizing during loading, and a flat seater stem give little to no OAL variation.

That's for sure.
My Redding precision mic seating die seats RMR MPRs from the Ogive instead of the end of the bullet, so they look like they are all over the place when checking OAL with dial calipers. That threw me for a few minutes when I first used it.
But yeah, flat point bullets are a pleasure to use with a flat seating stem.

My lnl-ap acts the same way the others have described so your press has nothing wrong with it.

 

[blackd24]

That’s good advice. I’ve read that you should decap off of progressive presses to keep the primer dirt out.. but if you decap, why not resize in the same process?

Maybe I’ll get the single stage going to decap and resize the brass before it goes on the press.

 

[blackd24]

Not sizing during loading makes things go much smoother, giving a better feel for the flaring, seating, and crimping operations.

I assume since you prime off of the press, it doesn’t matter how or where you start your dies. But I would be limited to leaving station 1 open, correct? Since priming happens after station 1.

 

[jmorris]

I would suggest trying lubed brass. Yes, you don’t need lube to size 9mm, I know this but try it, just once.

If you do, note that the effort you need to impart on the handle is significantly less, think about how many times that force you are imparting to the press components after all of the mechanical advantage. Now quantify the results with your calipers.

Other than that, set up every station with the press fully loaded, unless your going to load only one round at a time, don’t set the machine up that way.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I prime all my brass on my LNL-AP and have not had any problems from it in 13 years. Just blow it out before you start loading and Yes, I deprime off my press with a Lee APP to keep the dirt off my press.
It is a recent purchase though, a couple months ago. Other than that I would deprime on my LNL-AP and before I started to load, I would take the sled out of my priming mechanism and blow it out good with air.
I've never had any problems priming and still don't after the 13 years of running it.

 

[Blue68f100]

I prime on my LNL-AP all the time. I even use it to deprime brass for SS wet cleaning, universal die. When I do this I remove the seating primer punch from the base. This allows all of the debree to fall free, I just vacuum it up afterwords.

 

[Walkalong]

My Redding precision mic seating die seats RMR MPRs from the Ogive instead of the end of the bullet,

I took out the seater stem, welded it up, machined it flat, bought a new stem in case I needed it for some bullets, but so far the flat stem stays in there. Would have been almost as easy machining a whole new seater stem. One could just fill it with epoxy and file it as well.

 

[Walkalong]

I assume since you prime off of the press, it doesn’t matter how or where you start your dies. But I would be limited to leaving station 1 open, correct? Since priming happens after station 1.

Using pre-sized and hand primed cases? Not if you can move the powder dispensing to another station, and with the LNL linkage system for the measure, you can, expand in station one, drop powder in station two......

 

[Master Blaster]

What 600 yard benchrest rifle are you shooting that 9mm out of? .

For progressive presses you should be doing everything on the press. Variation of 01 is fine as long as they pass a case gauge.

 

[blackd24]

Using pre-sized and hand primed cases? Not if you can move the powder dispensing to another station, and with the LNL linkage system for the measure, you can, expand in station one, drop powder in station two......

i would be using only resized cases. I plan to prime on the press. I guess I could expand it station 1, then prime, then powder drop, etc. but I purchased the PTX expanders to work with the powder measure so I was planning on using those.

I normally use one shot lube for all pistol cases, but didn’t while I was just running dummy rounds. Maybe I’ll give that a try and see if the difference I’m seeing goes down. It’s not a big deal if 1 station is open.

 

[lordpaxman]

I would think if this is the case, I could never run just one piece through it my dies are set up in progressive mode, I.e. dialed in when there is brass in each station and expect the OAL to be 1.12.

That’s my experience as well, and I also shoot for 1.120”. I used the PTX as well.
When the press is empty and you’re starting, seating isn’t an issue, it’s at the end when you want to finish. I allow cases to be FL sized, but pull them before priming as the last cases are working their way through to the seating stage. It seems that FL size station is pretty key to having the seating step be consistent. Then those 3 or 4 sized and deprimed cases are set aside and used to start the next session.
When I want to use the progressive in single station mode, for load development, I adjust the seater just a bit. I have witness marks to know where to set it back to, and my log book has the required rotation to adjust for .010”. Good luck.

 

[RealGun]

The sizer and seater should be in opposite stations, so that resistance is in better balance. If not keeping the carousel full, there will be variation, which I find of little concern and not so significant with revolver ammo...more tolerant guns. Some of the replies here are in the context of not using a case feeder or even loading progressively in a true sense. Some are also chasing decimal places, perhaps for rifles. A progressive makes some compromises, and precision rifle shooters load single stage.

 

[BBarn]

For handgun cartridges, the only thing I do pre-AP is de-prime and clean the cases. I do all the rest on the AP, using carbide dies with no lube, in one operation. That's why I bought a five-station progressive.

Station 1 - size
Station 1.5 - prime
Station 2 - expand/bell
Station 3 - powder drop (no fiddling with a PTX)
Station 4 - seat
Station 5 - crimp

I also do as Walkalong suggested and adjust the seater a bit for the last few loads to achieve closer OALs when there is no case in the sizing station.

I use multiple case activated powder drops and powder measure metering inserts to make changeovers quick and easy (for six different cartridges plus several load combinations). I still use a single stage for various smaller batches.

To each his or her own.

 

[Soonerpesek]

I also do as Walkalong suggested and adjust the seater a bit for the last few loads to achieve closer OALs when there is no case in the sizing station.

Can't you just put a case in that station...?...so you wouldn't have to mess with the seater....

 

[RealGun]

Can't you just put a case in that station...?...so you wouldn't have to mess with the seater....

Yeah, don't feed and load your last case.

 

[BBarn]

Once sized, a case doesn't offer much resistance. You'd need four cases to finish out. I don't concern myself with it too much, and sometimes don't bother with an adjustment. 0.005" or so difference in OAL isn't going to appreciably impact my handgun abilities.

 

[Shak3s1977]

I would suggest trying lubed brass. Yes, you don’t need lube to size 9mm, I know this but try it, just once.

If you do, note that the effort you need to impart on the handle is significantly less, think about how many times that force you are imparting to the press components after all of the mechanical advantage. Now quantify the results with your calipers.

Other than that, set up every station with the press fully loaded, unless your going to load only one round at a time, don’t set the machine up that way.

I agree with the case lube. I've read Hornady One Shot is garbage lube, and maybe it is for sizing rifle cases (never lubed rifle except for 45-70). For a light coating on pistol brass? Oh heck yes. My Dillon 550's run so much smoother with a quick spray on pistol cases. I don't think I'll ever go back.

Also my Dillons show the same type of OAL variations. It used to drive me crazy, then I read about measuring from the ogive. I don't and that is why there are variations. Usually the most drastic when the shell plate isn't completely full of cases. I'm now at the point, if they are under my length or close, I send em.