Locking scope turrets are a thing, but locking bolt handles aren't?

[troy fairweather]

Do you unload pointing the gun at your buddy or something, I never understood the argument about how it's unsafe to unload if the gun is not on safe. Point the gun at the ground when unloading, just because something has a safety doesn't mean you can wave the muzzle all round.

I prefer a 3 position safety of 2 position with a button to open the bolt.

 

[9x56MS]

I am a still hunter and I must be doing something wrong. I have never had a turret move or a bolt open or my floor plate pop open. I think I figured out what I am doing wrong! I carry my gun in front of me in both hands. I just thought that’s what hunters were supposed to do. Although it is kind of hard to shoot anything with your gun slung over your shoulder

 

[LoonWulf]

I am a still hunter and I must be doing something wrong. I have never had a turret move or a bolt open or my floor plate pop open. I think I figured out what I am doing wrong! I carry my gun in front of me in both hands. I just thought that’s what hunters were supposed to do. Although it is kind of hard to shoot anything with your gun slung over your shoulder

Its even harder when slung across your body and over a back pack. From a slung position i can get my rifle in action pretty quick, from across my back i usually have a good excuse to pass on stuff lol.
These days I spend alot more time with my gun slung because i hunt areas with a pile of walking and few areas where snap shots are common.

 

[Walkalong]

Most of our hunting around here is walk to a stand, or carry a climber in, shinny up, then pull up an unloaded rifle. So we don't "need" locking bolts.

For those walking in tough terrain who need to keep the gun loaded, a locking bolt is excellent to have. For those in combat 100 years ago who had keep a loaded rifle ready while hiking, climbing, crawling, etc, a locking bolt is a must. Why do you think so many old bolt guns have them.

 

[rbernie]

I carry my gun in front of me in both hands.

And that’ll work for a spell, but not when you need to cross a fence, or steady yourself while you slide down a ravine, or when you climb out of a ravine, or any number of a million situations in which using both hands to hold the gun just won’t work.

I don’t understand why it’s so hard for people to conjure that not everybody hunts in the same terrain, or in the same way.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I am a still hunter and I must be doing something wrong. I have never had a turret move or a bolt open or my floor plate pop open. I think I figured out what I am doing wrong! I carry my gun in front of me in both hands. I just thought that’s what hunters were supposed to do. Although it is kind of hard to shoot anything with your gun slung over your shoulder

I’m a still hunter, spot and stalk hunter, jump shooter, stand hunter, you name it. And there are times when I need to travel on foot over some rough country with a slung rifle to get the place where I begin to hunt.
I’ve slid down scree shoots, I’ve caught a foot in snow covered brush and tumbled a ways down an avalanche slide. I’ve had horses try their best to scrape me and my rifle off on a tree.
I absolutely won’t carry a rifle strapped to a pack without the bolt Locked down. I’ve most definitely had non locking bolts come open while traveling with a rifle slung or strapped to a pack. And more often than not I’m far enough away from civilization that filling an action or dirt or packing a muzzle with mud or snow would be a serious problem.

There’s nothing better than hiking multiple miles and thousands of vertical feet to go get another rifle of fix the one you’ve got.

 

[9x56MS]

I do understand that people hunt differently depending on a million unforseen circumstances. If a man feels he needs a locking bolt and turret locks then he should get them and use them. For me and my method of hunting I just have no need for them. Doesn't mean that I don't think anybody should need them. My Mannlicher has a locking bolt and all my scopes have covers over the adjustment knobs but I never make use of them while hunting just at the range.If I offended any one that was not my intent and I apologize to those who took it that way.

 

[troy fairweather]

I've had my Remington bolt open twice in one day, my back pack was opening the bolt. This happened before I even got to the gate of the cow pasture about 50 from my truck nice mowed grass. So you don't have to be climbing mountains of falling down one to have a bolt open.

Another 700 was about opened by grape vines, I caught that time early.

This was my fault but another 700 fell with the gun on my back, bolt opened and turrets ripped up the frozen ground. Wouldn't of happened I guess if I was not using a deer as a sled to get down a steep hill lol.

Had prickers one time open the bolt on a 98 mauser, it had a empty Chamber with 4 in the anyone day on my and decocked since I was dragging a deer. One day with my Siamese mauser I had the bolt stop catch on my jacket when slung, I was younger and over did it with the grease on some parts and the stop stuck open. If the bolt opened I I didn't know I could have lost the bolt.

Just because you never had something happen doesn't mean it won't happen, like a guy saying I've never been in a car accident or a burning building so it can't happen to me. It good to be prepared, it's cheap insurance.

 

[rbernie]

Wouldn't of happened I guess if I was not using a deer as a sled to get down a steep hill lol

Dude - I would’ve paid good money to see that.

 

[troy fairweather]

Dude - I would’ve paid good money to see that.

Haha I had pictures of the aftermath but lost them when my card corrupted. I got pretty good speed hill is at least 45° and 300' slope.

 

[d2wing]

Ok you win. I am convinced that you need them. No problem. Sorry that having an opinion was offensive.

 

[9x56MS]

I've had my Remington bolt open twice in one day, my back pack was opening the bolt. This happened before I even got to the gate of the cow pasture about 50 from my truck nice mowed grass. So you don't have to be climbing mountains of falling down one to have a bolt open.

Another 700 was about opened by grape vines, I caught that time early.

This was my fault but another 700 fell with the gun on my back, bolt opened and turrets ripped up the frozen ground. Wouldn't of happened I guess if I was not using a deer as a sled to get down a steep hill lol.

Had prickers one time open the bolt on a 98 mauser, it had a empty Chamber with 4 in the anyone day on my and decocked since I was dragging a deer. One day with my Siamese mauser I had the bolt stop catch on my jacket when slung, I was younger and over did it with the grease on some parts and the stop stuck open. If the bolt opened I I didn't know I could have lost the bolt.

Just because you never had something happen doesn't mean it won't happen, like a guy saying I've never been in a car accident or a burning building so it can't happen to me. It good to be prepared, it's cheap insurance.

Just another reason I have never owned a 700. That and their stocks have never felt just right to me. Don’t mean to stir up those who love them. They are accurate and if you love yours I am happy for you. They just didn’t do it for me. Good hunting.

 

[rbernie]

Ok you win. I am convinced that you need them. No problem. Sorry that having an opinion was offensive.

Having an opinion is not offensive - it's useful to the discussion. On the other hand :

I am old enough to remember when nanny devices were for sissy's.

Calling folk sissies for holding a different opinion is not very High Road - either be adult enough to deal with the pushback, or don't make such inflammatory statements in the first place.

 

[d2wing]

Ok, I take that back. Nanny devices aren't just for sissies. And I am sorry for being so cranky. 'Tis for safety that we give up our freedoms has been on my mind. Or something Ben Franklin said. I took this post to mean that certain designs should be banned since there are options like my Tikka.. A slippery slope.

 

[d2wing]

Having an opinion is not offensive - it's useful to the discussion. On the other hand :
Calling folk sissies for holding a different opinion is not very High Road - either be adult enough to deal with the pushback, or don't make such inflammatory statements in the first place.

And no. I do remeber being old enough to remember that and how people talked when the government started to regulate things.

Having an opinion is not offensive - it's useful to the discussion. On the other hand :
Calling folk sissies for holding a different opinion is not very High Road - either be adult enough to deal with the pushback, or don't make such inflammatory statements in the first place.

I didn't mean it that way. I did not mean to infer that anyone on here was a sissy. I do remember what people said about it when the government started safety mandates.

 

[Varminterror]

For me, there’s a clarification to be made between locking bolt models and locking bolt models which must have the safety deactivated to unlock.

I wouldn’t discount a rifle model just because it didn’t have a locking bolt, but admittedly, I strongly consider discounting models which require the safety to be deactivated to unlock the bolt.

Remington 700: 2 position safety, which for the last ~30 years does not lock the bolt when on safe, such the action can be cycled while the safety is on.

Winchester 70: 3 position safety to allow the action to be cycled while the safety is on.

Winchester XPR: 2 position which does lock the bolt when safety is on.

Ruger M77 MkII and Hawkeye: 3 position safety to allow the action to be cycled while the safety is on.

Ruger American & Precision Rifles: 2 position safety which do not lock the bolt, such the action can be cycled with the safety on.

Tikka T3: 2 position which locks the bolt when the safety is on.

CZ550: most 550’s have a 3 position safety which allows the action to be cycled while the safety is on.

Savage 10/110 and variants: 3 position safety to allow the action to be cycled while the safety is on.

Savage Axis: 2 position safety which does not lock the bolt, allowing the action to be cycled while the safety is on.

Howa 1500/Weatherby Vanguard: 2 position Safety which does lock the bolt (most production, I understand some early 1500’s were 3 position safeties, but I have not encountered one personally).

Browning AB3 & X-bolt: 2 position safety plus a bolt unlock button which allows the action to be cycled with the safety on. (Old A Bolts had a 2 position safety which did lock the bolt, phased out for the new AB3 design).

T/C Compass: 3 position safety which allows the action to cycle with the safety on.

So of 13 models, 10 lock the bolt, while only 3 do not. Coincidentally, of the 13, 10 models can be cycled with the safety engaged, while only 3 cannot.

From that list, the Rem 700, Savage Axis, and Ruger American are the 3 which do not lock the bolt. I’ll never again buy a Remington 700, but I can be certain I will buy and build 700 clones which do not include locking bolts - preferentially in fact. I have no interest in the Ruger American (save for mild interest in the Precision version), nor in the Axis. So non-locking versus locking becomes largely moot for me.

However, alternatively, I do not care for the fact the Win XPR, Tikka T3, and Howa 1500 (Weatherby Vanguard) must have the safety deactivated to administratively unload the rifle.

But honestly, I don’t decide my rifle purchases based on either parameter (locking bolt or safe unload). Several of my rifles either don’t have safeties at all, or almost never have the safety activated. I equally don’t care for tang safeties in any model, especially a 3 position tang safety - I simply can’t operate them effectively without breaking position. Frankly, any bolt mounted flag safety requires me to break my grip on the rifle, which I find unfavorable. But I build and buy rifles with much more consideration given to other features. Frankly, I weigh manufacturer business and political history more heavily than I do the safety and bolt lock features.

 

[Txhillbilly]

I guess I need to throw my Custom action rifles in the trash since they don't have locking bolts.
Having a bolt accidently open has never happened to me in all the years I've hunted. Maybe I'm lucky, or maybe it's something that really doesn't happen enough to warrant gun makers to be that concerned with.

 

[troy fairweather]

I think we can compare guys that had bolts open and ones that didn't like guys that can change the oil in there truck with a white t-shirt on and never get a drop on them. Guys that have bolts open are the guy that ruins a shirt before the hood is even open. Meaning some have better awareness on what there body does subconsciously.

I can't get a white shirt out of the dryer before it's dirty, I worked with a guy always wore white shirts, he could go under a truck on the creeper and do a full service and never get anything on him.

 

[Walkalong]

It’s pretty simple to me, if you are going to be climbing, walking rough terrain, and need to keep a round in the chamber, you should lean heavily towards a locking bolt. If not, not so much.

Remember the old adds about gun safety and not climbing over a fence with your gun loaded, either set it down and climb over, or unload it? Smart safety tip, especially for new or young shooters, but some hunting isn’t done that way.

 

[Varminterror]

About 30yrs ago, an uncle showed me his “trick” for locking a Rem 700 non-locking bolt. He had a bootlace tied around the stock grip neck, with a loop knotted in one end of the string. It just slipped over the knob of the bolt handle, and would lock the bolt while hiking.

Personally, I lash my rifle on my pack with a cargo panel which covers the bolt handle such it can’t be opened. When I’m hiking with the rifle in hand or slung, I usually carry across my chest instead of across my back, and I carry with the bolt pointed away from my pack. Side-mount sockets make for a much more comfortable ride than belly mounted sling points, and prevent a lot of those incidental swipes and smears which would unlock my bolt... up and down and ‘round and ‘round, any of them work fine. There is so very much more to a rifle which is far more important than a bolt lock.

 

[Nature Boy]

the guy that ruins a shirt before the hood is even open

*nature boy raises his hand*