Locking up in NYC? (Gun safe)

[max3]

Hey everyone, this forum seems like a knowledgeable bunch of folks, so I wanted to ask you all about storage and safes to keep your weapons in. How do you decide what kind of storage you want to use? How much money should I pay for a gun safe?

Let me give a bit of background information. I'm not what some liberals would call a “gun nut” - although I have nothing against firearms enthusiasts at all. In fact, it was the recent uptick of crime and attacks in my area that finally made me “bite the bullet” and purchase myslef a Glock. It isn't anything fancy or rare, but I have to admit that it is a fine, functional thing – holds good, shoots good. I like it. Anyway, I realized that if the Obama administration gets their way, it might become much harder for me to protect myself and my family. So I did it now.

The thing is, I've got some valuables in my home that I want to secure, and I don't think a handgun safe is going to cut it. So I was thinking of getting a bigger, proper safe. Work requires me to travel a lot, and I'm going to be in New York City next week. Since I have a sturdy, strong truck I figured that I might as well buy a safe there – in such a big city, people will definitely want to lock up their valuables and the competition should be pretty high between locksmiths and safe retailers. Overall it should provide a good deal, you know? After a Google search I found a place called Precision Lock and Safe, which seems quite legitimate and reputable. Your input would be much appreciated, though.

Since I have very little knowledge of and experience with safes, I thought maybe asking people here would be a good idea before going and purchasing something that might set me back several thousand dollars. Should I get a safe with a keypad or a dial? I need to store paper documents that have both financial, sentimental, and legal value – I'm assuming that I should invest extra on a fireproof safe? Our family home is pretty small, so I'd have to buy a pretty compact safe, too, but I definitely don't want one that could be carried away... Maybe it would be best to install a wall safe?

Anyway, thanks for reading this loooong text, I didn't mean to make it so long. Any and all advice will be appreciated!

 

[a1abdj]

Your paper documents should be stored in a safe which carries a UL fire rating, which rules out every gun safe out there. There are some safes that offer a UL fire rating along with a decent level of burglary protection.

By a separate gun safe for the guns.

 

[docsleepy]

If you need to protect paper documents, you might put in a container of water, that is open somehow, and it will absorb heat creating steam, keeping the temperature inside the safe below paper ignition temperature for a while.

 

[ugaarguy]

Max, I've always liked Cannon safes for their warranty, and excellent value for the price. Academy Sports is a big box sporting goods retailer that's mostly in the Southeastern and central states. They sell a pretty nice 24 long gun Cannon for $620 - http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/can...pid-321851?color=Black&N=626381016+4294965690. That's a very competitive price and gives you a point of price comparison.

For your paper documents just get briefcase or mini file cabinet sized fire rated document safe like the ones made by Sentry. Academy's website lists better prices on those than even Office Depot.

So, before you go to NYC I'd check prices through whichever national and regional sporting goods chains are local to you.

 

[splattergun]

A quick search on gunsafes.com shows fire rated gun safes to be rather common (we don't want our guns burnt up, do we?). If it's still a concern beyond what's available you might put a fire rated document box inside your fire rated gun safe.

NYC sounds like a rather expensive place to drop in and buy a gun safe. Is there no other LGS, big box store or factory outlet near you?

 

[a1abdj]

The problem with "fire rated" gun safes is that for the most part, they are not that resistant to fire.

 

[Midwest]

You might be better off buying in New Jersey as gun safes are exempt from sales taxes.

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/30709-nj-gun-vault-sales-tax-exemption/

http://law.onecle.com/new-jersey/54-taxation/32b-8.51.html

New Jersey Statutes - Title 54 Taxation - 54:32B-8.51 Short title; receipts from sales of firearm vaults, tax exempt

Legal Research Home > New Jersey Laws > Taxation > New Jersey Statutes - Title 54 Taxation - 54:32B-8.51 Short title; receipts from sales of firearm vaults, tax exempt

54:32B-8.51. Short title; receipts from sales of firearm vaults, tax exempt
1. a. This act shall be known and may be cited as "The Secure Firearm Storage Act".

b. Receipts from sales of firearm vaults providing secure storage for firearms are exempt from the tax imposed under the "Sales and Use Tax Act", P.L.1966, c.30 (C.54:32B-1 et seq.).

L.1999,c.254.

.

 

[uglysteve]

My and most gun safes is/are UL Fire rated. Mine happens to be rated to 2 hrs at 1400 degrees.

Just like anything, you get what you pay for. How much burglary protection do you want? That all depends on how heavy gauge the steel on the cabinet is. You can get the relatively cheap models which have 14ga rolled steel doors and cabinets and which can be opened with a fair amount of determination and hand tools. Or you could get a Graffunder safe which is 1-1 1/2" thick solid steel all the way around, weighs a ton (literally) and costs $11,000.


I would recommend a compromise such as the American Security or the Fort Knox safes. They have thick steel plate doors, greater wall thickness and better fire resistance. You will spend at least $1,500 on a safe with these features. Plus add the fact that the AmSec warranty is tough to beat, and you've got a great safe that won't break the bank.

 

[a1abdj]

My and most gun safes is/are UL Fire rated.

There are currently no gun safes on the market that carry a UL fire rating. I'm aware of only two models from the distant past that did have UL fire ratings.

I open burned gun safes on a fairly regular basis. Don't believe the sticker on the door.

 

[ugaarguy]

There is the ETL approval, which meets or exceeds UL ratings, that Cannon and a few others carry.

For those interested here's a link to Cannon's fire ratings - http://www.cannonsafe.com/fire-protection.html.

Intertek-ETL isn't a fly by night operation either - http://www.intertek.com/marks/etl/.

Not all RSC's are created equally, as with just about every other product we buy.

 

[Sam1911]

I open burned gun safes on a fairly regular basis. Don't believe the sticker on the door.

Hands-on experience is a very valuable teacher, no?

 

[ugaarguy]

The problem with "fire rated" gun safes is that for the most part, they are not that resistant to fire.

That's definitely a sobering picture. However, it tells us very little. What is the make and model of that safe? What was the fire rating in time and temperature? What laboratory certified that safe? How long was the structure ablaze before fire crews arrived arrived and extinguished the flames? Those are all very important factors in assessing why that safe failed in that situation.

 

[a1abdj]

There is the ETL approval, which meets or exceeds UL ratings

ETL is a known and respected entity. Their certification is not as difficult to obtain as UL, which is why you are starting to see some manufacturers (even on the real safe side of the industry) going that direction.

This doesn't mean that their ratings don't mean what they say. It simply means that UL is that much tougher. A UL rated product really is tested at worst case scenario conditions.

Truthfully, I don't see a need for gun safes to be fire rated. Gun safes should be used for guns. Even if the safe performs as advertised, damage to firearms is still very likely. If you have other stuff that requires specific types of protection, they make other types of safes for those purposes. Different tools, different jobs.

That's definitely a sobering picture. However, it tells us very little. What is the make and model of that safe? What was the fire rating in time and temperature? What laboratory certified that safe? How long was the structure ablaze before fire crews arrived arrived and extinguished the flames? Those are all very important factors in assessing why that safe failed in that situation.

The problem is that I have many of these sobering pictures. Sure specific conditions play a serious role, as does the manufacturer and rating of the safe. However, statistically, these safes do not tend to perform as advertised because most of them simply can't. There are all sorts of design issues at play, and most gun safe manufacturers don't know the first thing about designing a safe.

 

[Walkalong]

Fire protection in a safe or RSC is a complicated subject, one I do not pretend to fully understand even after reading many threads here, as well as reading the subject matter linked to in those threads. The more you read, the more complicated and confusing it gets, IMHO.

My final answer was to run a water line and install a sprinkler head above my Sturdy "safe", despite the "fire protection" supplied in it.

 

[hso]

One of the all too common comments seen after a fire is the lining material (essentially drywall) gives off enough water to steam the contents of the safe and ruin the firearms in the "safe" even when the owners can get them the next day. We've seen a lot of pics of ruined guns even when they weren't burned because of this. Discussions about fire rating have pointed out that certain ceramic liner material won't turn the safe into a steam bath, but that material is more expensive to use.

 

[CB900F]

Max3;

Please don't be misled by the statement in this thread concerning the cost of a Graffunder. Yes, it's certainly possible to buy a Graffunder safe at something like that price point, but there are Graffunder's available at far lower cost. Which is not to say that Graffunder is in competition with Cannon, they aren't. Cannon, and companies offering the same type of unit sell RSC's, or Residential Security Containers, not U.L. rated safes. The minimum build at Graffunder is a B rated safe, not an RSC.

Please do PM me if this is of interest to you.

900F