Looking for Advice & Counsel

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SC Shooter

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I am an experienced shooter, but have never gotten involved in percussion weapons or black powder. I am interested in changing that, and would appreciate some comments on the best way to get involved. I have been doing a fair amount of reading and studying, but now it's time to get some advice from experienced users with regards to what to purchase and what to start with. All comments and suggestions will be appreciated.
 
It all depends on what you like to do. Shoot targets with rifle or pistol? Long range or shorter? Shoot skeet or trap? Where you start depends on where you want to end up. If there is a local black powder group in a gun club, talking with them would really help you decide what you want to start out with. Here I normally let the curious try out some of my various bp guns to see what floats their boat.
 
Thanks for the input. Basically I want to start with percussion revolvers, and go from there into long guns. I probably will stick to range shooting. Long range goal will be to get into collecting originals once I get proficient and more knowledgeable.
 
Welcome to the addiction. As advised earlier if there is a group or person start there and try a few of the gun they have.
If not Caballa's has the best prices at the present time and with lots of the guns they include starter packs. You will have to buy powder FFFg and caps (#10 for most of what they sell). You will need cleaning supplies but most can be scrounged from home items.
Clean up the gun when you get it and spend some time playing with it. Do not dry fire cuz you will screw up the nipples. Then off to the range to try it out. You will be shocked at how accurate 150 year old tech works. I always out shoot my modern guns using cap and ball. And most of all have FUN!
 
Thanks for the input. Basically I want to start with percussion revolvers, and go from there into long guns. I probably will stick to range shooting. Long range goal will be to get into collecting originals once I get proficient and more knowledgeable.
My advice for revolvers is to cut some wax a little smaller than the bore(s) of cylinders and press one over each ball when finished loading. Having more than one cylinder fire does not help your flinch!
 
Cabela's 20% off today!

Take a gander at Cabela's December 11th (only) sale on black powder revolvers with free shipping---today only for the 20%:

http://www.cabelas.com/browse.cmd?c...P20131211&seg=EPP0ESO&cnt=10707&ctb=MAINFEAT1

Myself, I'd go for that steel-framed Pietta Model 1858 New Army Police .36 Caliber Revolver for $250.00. It's a fine way to get started, and Cabela's usually has the best prices. You'll have a ball!
 
FWIW, I recently started with cap & ball revolvers and have a Uberti Rem 1858 and a Uberti Colt 1860. One of the reasons I chose Uberti was my totally satisfactory experience with their SAA and Win 1873 replicas that I've used for CAS.

Because of concerns about black powder storage, I began with Pyrodex P (30gr loads) powder and pellets, .44 cal WonderWads, Hornady .454 round balls and Remington #10 caps. I have used T/C Bore Butter and T/C cleaning products with excellent results and have had no issues of corrosion or rust after my first 5 range sessions. I will be trying GOEX, homemade wads and Gatofeo No.1 Lubricant in the spring.

I have read all that I could find on the subject and found Gatofeo's recommendations, in particular, superb. I would also recommend following Mike Beliveau (Duelist 1954) for his writings and YouTubes. Their experience and advice have provided the mentorship I needed.

BP shooting, even with Pyrodex, is terrific fun and gives you a much greater appreciation for what our forebears went through back in the day. I will likely get a second of one of these revolvers and try BP for CAS, though I may just start with BP cartridges first.

Have a great time with it!

Harry
 
Gentlemen & Lady: thanks so much. Your input is exactly what I was hoping for. I already have my latest Cabela's catalogue pages with their Cap & ball revolvers circled and on the kitchen counter. Of course a $200 Pietta is going to cost me $1,000 jewlery Christmas present, but hey an ivestment is an investment. Thanks again.
 
For your first BP revolver I'd suggest a Pietta 1858 Remington clone.

The Colt open top clones are nice but they come fresh from the box with a pretty common error in the design or execution of the cylinder arbor. They all seem to be a little short so that the wedge does not lock the barrel to the arbor correctly. It's pretty easy to fix this issue if you're at all handy with some basic metal working. But you can avoid this by going with a full frame Remington clone over an open top Colt clone.
 
Allow me to muddy the water a bit.

The reproduction revolvers offered by Cabela's and other outlets can be great fun. I presently have 6 of them. But they can also be frustrating as new guns because many exhibit poor arbor fit, poor bolt to notch fit, and frequently suffer from incomplete deburring on internal parts. Most of us also prefer to replace the factory nipples with aftermarket nipples to reduce jams caused by blowback through large vent holes.

I urge you to consider buying a used Ruger Old Army. They will cost 3 to 4 times as much as one of the new Piettas or Ubertis, but if you decide you do not like blackpowder revolvers, you won't lose a dime on resale. You will be lucky to get 50% of your investment in an Italian gun back on resale.

The advantage of going with a Ruger Old Army as a first percussion revolver is learning with the safest, strongest percussion revolver ever made. The ROA is wonderfully accurate and reliable, and just never experiences a cap jam or broken hand spring.

You will be more likely to enjoy your introduction to percussion revolvers with this safe, trouble free gun than with the Italian guns as they come from the factory.

If you are more into frustration, then by all means disregard my advice!

Good luck in any case.
 
The only issue with the Ruger is that they are long out of production and finding a nice used one can involve a bit of a search.

For a little more money than the Pietta you could consider a Uberti Remington. I've been using two box stock Uberti Remingtons for about 3 years now for black powder cowboy action shooting and general target fun. They've both been 100% reliable right out of the box. It's distinctly likely that the Pietta Remingtons would perform with the same reliability given the reports posted on THR. The stock nipples are OK once you find the right size and brand of cap to fit them.

Caliber to choose? I like the .44 option. The recoil from 30gns of black behind a .454size ball swaged into the cylinder is on par with a stout 38Spl or possibly a .44Spl. But it's a slower sort of THUMP! than the BANG! from smokeless.
 
The ROA is the gold standard. You'll never lose money or enjoyment with one.

If you do not want one of those, the Remington New Army 1858 copies are the most forgiving replicas to shoot for a new shooter. It's the design that the Ruger Old Army was inspired by. Easier disassembly than any Colt clone, no opportunity for the manufacturer to give you one with a short arbor (don't worry about what that is right now, but trust me: If you buy a Colt copy you'll need to learn about it and how to fix it). They are easy to load, easy to clean, shoot well, and are a pleasure always.


Which 1858 copy? Well... you basically have Uberti or Pietta.

Traditions, a common discount store trade name, is a Pietta. Cabelas sells loads of Piettas too.

Uberti's are sold under the Cimmaron name, but also under their own name, as imported by Taylors and Stoeger. Quality is identical for Cimmaron or Taylors imports.


Advice:

I'm a Uberti guy: The Piettas are OK, and getting better, but the general concensus is that the Uberti's are a grade better in quality. For certain they don't suffer from the garish "shoot with black powder only, made in Italy" markings on the side of the barrel like a Pietta. And in a 1858 the Pietta grip is mishapen as compared to an original. The Ubertis are closer to being correct.


In addition you need caps, balls, powder (try to buy the real stuff please!), a powder measure/flask combo with a 30 grain spout, and maybe some bore butter. Then go shoot! You'll figure out anything else you need on your own.

A VERY pleasing finish for them is the "Original" finish, which replicates a well used revolver, and makes your normal handling marks just blend in. I always suggest it. You can do a good job of antiquing them yourself with a washrag and some vinegar, but the factory aged ones look grear right out of the box.


Willie

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I would urge you to buy a single shot muzzle loading pistol first to learn the black powder experience. I have three pistols and four rifles of the muzzle loading variety and have yet to desire a revolver. If you have any mechanical or woodworking skills I would urge you to consider the Kentucky Pistol kit from Dixie gun works. Mine is in .45 caliber, was very rewarding to build and even more fun to shoot. It is very accurate to boot.
 
Bullslinger has a good point. We're telling you how to build a watch and you just asked what time it is.
As I understand it you are a modern gun shooter who is tempted into the realm of historic shooting. The first question you must ask of yourself is if you are ready for the slow and tedious pace of muzzleloading. That question is best answered with a rifle. A rifle is cheap and simple and answers the question as to whether you enjoy bang,bang,bang, bang, bang,bang, versus bang...........................................................................................................................................................bang.
Granted a percussion revolver gives you, at the most, 5 shots per cylinder it will require at least 10 minutes to load the next cylinder.
A lot of modern gun shooters aren't satisfied with the muzzleloader pace.
In a nut shell 50 rounds shot to a muzzleloader is a good day at the range. 50 rounds to a modern gun shooter is less than a quarter hour.
 
The first couple of times around it may take 10 minutes. But with a little practice it's not hard to get down to about 5 to 6 minutes to reload a C&B revolver.

Also if you're loading right at the bench and shooting right away there's nothing at all wrong with loading all 6 chambers.
 
I have to agree on the opinions about the Ruger Old Army. There are of course some great repro percussion revolvers around but nothing that comes close to the ROA as far as quality and accuracy.
Sadly, the pistol is no longer made and the existing ones are demanding a premium price.
However, I also own an 1858 Remington replica by Pietta and I really have no complaints about it.
 
Not to worry, Bullslinger. Afteer a career in Engineering and Construction, I have learned to sort out the data.
 
Because interest today is in CC guns, home protection, and military weapons I don't see the big guys going after a limited market like us. I can imagine the smaller companies trying it, companies like Kel-tech maybe North American would see the value in producing a large SS C&B revolver since they produce a C&B mouse gun.
 
Like you I am a experienced shooter and reloader with modern smokeless powder firearms. I do have limited experience with muzzle loading rife and had a C&B revolver once so I already understand the basics. Basically forget everything you have learned about smokeless powder ammunition. Blackpowder shooting is easier, more fun and a slower pace of shooting.

When the Banic of 2013 hit I decided to get back into blackpowder as powder and guns were widely available. The good news is there are a lot of different types, calibers and sizes of reproductions out there. Cabelas website is a good start. I was going to get a 1851 Navy but the grip was little smaller than I am use to so I went with the 44 cal. 1858 Remington. The 8" barrel Remmie is almost more of horse pistol. For my next C&B revolver I am going to get the 1862 Poiice in 36 cal. It is non-period correct with it's six shot cylinder (original Colts had a 5 shot cylinder) but I like the lighter weight and balance of it and it will make a great carry pistol.

Unlike my first C&B revolver Pietta's quality has improved greatly and is a excellent choice. I'm not sure that Uberti revolvers are better enough to justify another $100.00.

The good news is regardless of which model you choose they all load the same. As I am sure you know unlike with smokeless powder you cannot blow up your revolver with a overcharge. The worse thing that can happen is you won't be able to seat the ball down all the way in the chamber and you will send unburned powder downrange. But you will quickly learn the reduced loads are more economical on powder and more fun to shoot.

Frankly I have never been impressed with the Ruger Old Army. It is heavy, oversize and always has been overpriced. For the same cost you can buy 2 or 3 C&B Uberti or Pietta revolvers.

My only other comment is use real 3F blackpowder not the subs.
 
Go on youtube and watch all the videos on shooting black powder guns as you can. After i watched about every video on youtube i felt i could do it.

I think i came here first and asked about loads and just went and tried it.

I was bad i couldnt hit a thing for the first severl times out. Took me forever to load i had no system and it took me several times out to the range till i even started hitting anything.

It was and still is a blast!
 
Precisely why I don't own one. Given their popularity and demand, why did Ruger discontinue production? Will they ever make them again?
Good question! It seems like Ruger is more interested in producing defense stuff like compact and full size autos to appease some factions while disregarding the folks that MERELY wish to shoot. What's next on Ruger's poop list? I hope that it ain't the Ruger #1!
 
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