Looking for Winchester 1886 information.

[DMH]

Tang photos

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0npPZ_br20I/T3c5SVQPBTI/AAAAAAAAAB0/qxcMEn7gaRY/s640/IMG_0857.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1kbqHY2Ta8M/T3c5SncDchI/AAAAAAAAAB8/d9wzgPSjm-o/s640/IMG_0858.JPG

Hope that helps. The case hardening colors on the hammer look real good, seems like they must have redone the hammer with new case color. There are no numbers on the bottom of the receiver, so rules out a newer receiver with original lower tang installed. The rear sight is an origial Lyman no. 38 I can not find any good information on the Marbles 26m front sight. From the photos can someone tell me if this is 1/2 or 3/4 magazine? It holds 5+1

David

 

[Jim Watson]

I think the finish may have been the other way 'round. The case colors on the hammer were likely in good shape so the refinisher left it alone and blued everything else. I think a rifle with color case hardened hammer would also have had the same on the lever... which is now blue.

The "Climbin Lyman" no 38 rear sight is a period piece made 1907-1943. But Marble's still makes the No 26M front bead so it is hard to date, although probably going back to the rebuild.

 

[Old Time Hunter]

David, it was manufactured in 1897 based on the serial #. This is right at the beginning of the Nickel Steel era for using smokeless. You can assume that the barrel has been replaced, or during the re-bluing the marks were polished off. It is an extremely nice looking piece either way and would hate to damage it in anyway.

 

[murdoc rose]

I can see why you chose to bring it home. Odd the things that happen to guns over the years.

 

[DMH]

Thanks for all the input, it helps me out a lot. Can anyone comment on the long ramp on the front sight. I remember reading somewhere about the originals being a shorter front ramp and I believe they were symmetrical (front to rear). Where as this one is Longer and the ramp facing the rear sight is longer (not symmetrical). Do replacement barrels have proof stamps?

David

 

[Jim Watson]

The front sight ramp is an aftermarket part like the barrel and sight blade.
It might well be a Marble's ramp itself.

Replacement barrels do not have proof marks. Proof testing is not required by law in the USA as it is in Europe and an independent American gunsmith is just not going to bother with the rather tedious procedures to run a safe and controlled proof test.

 

[DMH]

Thank you Jim. I did not know that.

David

 

[CraigC]

Nice! Looks like whoever did the work did a fine job. I would load it with standard pressure cast bullet loads and not worry about it.

...chambered in 45-90 or 50-110. which really aren't available anymore.

Everything is available to the astute handloader. Starline has new brass is available for both those chamberings.

 

[Jim Watson]

That is for now.
This rifle was probably rebarrelled and perhaps caliber converted then.
In my youth, an '86 in any caliber but .45-70 was largely a novelty unless in such nice condition as to interest a collector.

 

[DMH]

I shot it again this weekend using Ultramax 405 Gr. 45-70 and This ammunition has far less recoil. At 100 yards it shot 1"-2" lower than the Hornady 325 Gr. which would make sense due to lighter weight of the bullet and bullet design. Also higher velocity. My plan is to just sight it in for the 405 lead bullet. Thinking about H-4198 or H4895 powder. Should I use Large rifle primer or large magnum rifle primers? I was thinking Large rifle primer. So hope that this weekend I will be assembling some of my own test rounds. As far as the rifle, I am waiting for a George Madis Winchester book I found used on line. I am also waiting for the Cody letter, was told 4 weeks and that was a week ago. I bought the rifle to hunt with and that is still my plan. I want to say that I'm impressed with how helpful people on the high road are, I have found old posts from RCModel and Float Pilot that have been very informative. Everyone who responded to my questions I respect their inputs and value their time the took to help.

Thanks tons!
David

 

[DMH]

Well just an update if anyone is interested. Received letter from Cody Firearms Museum and the Rifle left warehouse on September 13th 1898 with order number 5347 and was in 40/82 caliber. So as others had suggested it was re-barreled in the 45/70 caliber and re-sighted with the Lyman 38 and marbles 26. So I'll enjoy shooting it and use it for the intended purpose. Thanks for the input and help. I'll post some targets in two weeks. I've been loading rounds with AA-5477 and 405 grain lead cast Red River Bullets. I noted the same bullets were available in .458" and .459" diameter. I have not slugged this barrel, but I will. It has been shooting very nice, I have not fired any more of the jacketed rounds through it, but just wondering if anyone thought if I should still avoid shooting the jacketed bullets.

Thanks David

 

[Float Pilot]

Does it have deep groove rifling or shallow groove rifling? How is the bore... Since it was re-barreled sometime or another, the type of steel in the current barrel may remain an unsolved mystery.

What type of groups are you currently obtaining?

40-82 was an EXPRESS black powder cartridge. It was meant to get a fairly light bullet going as fast as it could using black-powder. I think the original Winchester factory loads were 260 grain bullets going around 1,450 fps. About the same as a 44 magnum pistol......The brass is a little longer than the 45-70, but used the same head size.

Even though you have a new barrel, don't get carried away with hot-rodding your loads since the receiver, bolt and locking lugs were made for less pressure.

Since the barrel takes it out of the collectors market, I would personally not mind shooting some 300 or 350 grain jacketed bullets through it upon occasion if they shoot better than lead. Unless it has real deep grooves which suggest a barrel made for lead slugs. Trying some gas check bullets would be interesting....

PS:::: If you use AA-5744, I have found that it seems to work better with magnum primers. If not it seems to leave a little more unburned powder.

With the 45-70, some rifles are picky about what type of bullet crimp you use. I have a roll crimp die, a Lee Factory Crimp Die and a Taper Crimp die. I have a three or four 45-70s and a 45-90 kicking around here and they all seem to like a different crimp for maximum accuracy...... Weird.....

 

[DMH]

FloatPilot, The rifling grooves look shallow. The groups at 100 yards is 7" this is from sitting at a bench and holding the rifle. No bags or rests. I have only had this rifle out three times and a total of 20 rounds. Thanks for the advise on powder and primers. So far I really am enjoying this 1886.

DMH

 

[DMH]

My attempt at some better photos.

DMH