Low felt recoil 9mm help
- Thread starter Straight Shooter
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mickeydim468
Member
I saw above the mention of the Ruger P series and others by Ruger. I am going to have to chime in with a +1 on this. I just bought a P95 Ruger. This thing is a dream. Solid steel slide on a poly lower. It's built like a tank and that heavy steel slide absorbs a lot of recoil. I definitely would not buy before at least trying one first. I love mine! I could shoot it all day if I could afford the ammo! 
Mikey!
Mikey!
I have a HK P7 and you can see me shoot them back to back on YouTube. The M&P has slightly less felt recoil and muxxle flip is nearly identical between the two. The P7 has an edge in accuracy and safety but the M&P has takes the win in capacity and weight.
The people saying polymer guns kick more are in my opinion dead wrong. The polymer absorbs a lot of recoil in spite of its reduced weight. The Glock and M&P also have a relatively low bore axis compared to many of its steel counterparts.
The people saying polymer guns kick more are in my opinion dead wrong. The polymer absorbs a lot of recoil in spite of its reduced weight. The Glock and M&P also have a relatively low bore axis compared to many of its steel counterparts.
Random Discharge
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Recoil = M*V Why 147?
I know you posted you wanted to use 147gr ammo, but if your goal is recoil reduction I suggest dropping to the 115 gr. ammo. Recoil is related to bullet mass times bullet velocity (plus powder mass * jet velocity, and more firearm weight smooths it out). Look at the velocities on 115gr and 147 gr. rounds, do the math, and see for yourself. Charge weight is small enough on 9mm that you can pretty much ignore powder for the comparison as it will add about the same recoil to both weight bullets, but if you want to compute that effect too, I recall the jet velocity to use is around 4000 fps for rifles. Might want to research that though, as it may be less for pistol rounds.
I know you posted you wanted to use 147gr ammo, but if your goal is recoil reduction I suggest dropping to the 115 gr. ammo. Recoil is related to bullet mass times bullet velocity (plus powder mass * jet velocity, and more firearm weight smooths it out). Look at the velocities on 115gr and 147 gr. rounds, do the math, and see for yourself. Charge weight is small enough on 9mm that you can pretty much ignore powder for the comparison as it will add about the same recoil to both weight bullets, but if you want to compute that effect too, I recall the jet velocity to use is around 4000 fps for rifles. Might want to research that though, as it may be less for pistol rounds.
I've owned a Glock 17 for about 3 years, and it served as a primary carry gun for those three years until I bought a 1911.
A good friend has a Glock 23, while another has a Glock 21. Shooting all three back-to-back, I can honestly say that there was very little difference in felt recoil -- all very manageable and pretty tame. (WWB in all cases, 9mm was 115 gr, .40 was 180 gr, and .45 was 230 gr).
The 1911 has a different recoil than the Glock, I'll call it "crisper." Not harsh or painful, but different. It seemed to me that the Glock had a bit more muzzle flip, while the 1911 seems to "push" more.
Perhaps if you're having trouble with your hand, the problem lies there instead of the gun?
A good friend has a Glock 23, while another has a Glock 21. Shooting all three back-to-back, I can honestly say that there was very little difference in felt recoil -- all very manageable and pretty tame. (WWB in all cases, 9mm was 115 gr, .40 was 180 gr, and .45 was 230 gr).
The 1911 has a different recoil than the Glock, I'll call it "crisper." Not harsh or painful, but different. It seemed to me that the Glock had a bit more muzzle flip, while the 1911 seems to "push" more.
Perhaps if you're having trouble with your hand, the problem lies there instead of the gun?
TurboFC3S
Member
Any full-size 9mm is going to be low recoil ... I'm sure you know that already. Since you're a 1911 fan, why not just find a 9mm 1911? If you want something different, the best shooting budget 9mm I can think of would be an EAA Witness Match. They have great triggers and accuracy for around $500, and it's a full-size steel gun that soaks up recoil. If comfort in hand is a priority, and it sounds like it might be, the HK P30 and P30L might be the best feeling 9mm's in the World.
unless i'm mistaken, i'm pretty sure the OP isn't looking for a full sized pistol for CCW
the HK P-7 has:
1. a full 4" barrel in a very compact package which usually limits competitors to 3-3.5" barrels.
2. it's fixed barrel is mounted very low in the frame (doesn't need to drop to unlock) and contributes to excellent accuracy.
3. the gas-delayed system limits slide movement (perceived recoil) until pressure drops (locked until bullet has left the barrel)
4. bullets move in a straight line from the mag into the barrel (no ramp to go up)
if you were looking to go with a shorter barrel, i'd recommend the Kahr or the Springfield EMP
TurboFC3S
Member
You're right, I missed the CCW part ...
I've shot a P7, but don't own one. I agree that it would be a great and unique choice. HiPowers were mentioned as well, and they're another good choice. There are lots of 3" and 4" 9mm 1911's out there too, if you're partial to that platform. EMP's are fantastic guns, but a bit pricey.
I've shot a P7, but don't own one. I agree that it would be a great and unique choice. HiPowers were mentioned as well, and they're another good choice. There are lots of 3" and 4" 9mm 1911's out there too, if you're partial to that platform. EMP's are fantastic guns, but a bit pricey.
rtn
Member
Glocks are different
You're right: Glocks don't feel right, especially if you're used to a 1911. That was the case with me, but after a few hours you get used to it.
I go back and forth between my 1911 .45 and my Glock 19 with no problems. Give it a second try. G19s aren't pretty, but they're reliable shooters.
You're right: Glocks don't feel right, especially if you're used to a 1911. That was the case with me, but after a few hours you get used to it.
I go back and forth between my 1911 .45 and my Glock 19 with no problems. Give it a second try. G19s aren't pretty, but they're reliable shooters.
Coltman 77
member
Why not check out a Browning Hi Power?
Especially since you are familiar with the 1911 platform.
Especially since you are familiar with the 1911 platform.
...andd so we're back to full sized guns.
can anyone point out a full sized, steel framed 9mm which has more felt recoil than a Browning Hi Power?
can anyone point out a full sized, steel framed 9mm which has more felt recoil than a Browning Hi Power?
I'm no ballistics expert, but I've heard sketchy things about 147 gr bullets. I think the 9mm requires its velocity in order to produce its stopping power. I'm not convinced that the lethargic 147 gr bullets will act the same as the slow-moving .45ACP. Plus some handguns do not cycle the 147 as well as the 115/124...but YMMV.
the original design weight of the the 9mm bullet was 124grs
the advantage of the heavier 147gr slug is the longer bearing surface which helps accuracy
the advantage of the heavier 147gr slug is the longer bearing surface which helps accuracy
Coltman 77
member
You know, I don't even notice the recoil when I shoot my Hi Power.
The smaller pistol you choose, usually, the more "felt recoil" you'll have.
I'll suggest another small pistol though for the OP.
The Walther PPS, whose recoil I consider very mild.
The smaller pistol you choose, usually, the more "felt recoil" you'll have.
I'll suggest another small pistol though for the OP.
The Walther PPS, whose recoil I consider very mild.
3" barrel
that's what make the P-7 so special...less recoil
The hipower is not really a full sized weapon in the sense of most full sized autos. The slide is WAY slimmer than most modern autos and is "commander" length. It conceales nicely and carries very well. The difference between carrying it and my M&P 9C is actually not that big. If you where a button down shirt caryin it would be no problem at all.
maskedman504
Member
CZ 75 D PCR
US$ 651.00
Ammunition
Ammo 9 mm LUGER
Magazine capacity 14
Rate of twist 1:9.7 in
Dimensions
Weight 1.7 lbs (27.2oz)
Overall Length 7.2 in
Barrel Length 3.9 in
Height 5.3 in
Width 1.4 in
HK P7
Caliber: 9mm
Capacity: 8 rounds
Dimensions
Type: Sub-Compact
Weight: 27.51 oz (780g)
Length: 6.73" (171 mm)
Barrel: 4.13" (105 mm)
Wow the HK P7 is expensive.
And it is discontinued.
Straight Shooter
Member
I consider anything 4" bbl or smaller (overall length of 7"ish or smaller) concealable. Basically a Commander size pistol.
Some of the ones you guys have recommended like the SIG P229/226 look very promising. I'm checking out all of your recommendations, thanks again for your help.
As far as ballistics, the reason I was thinking about the 147gr is because from what I've read so far (correct me if I'm wrong) the 115gr works best for SD when used with a +P or +P+ load and the 127gr seem to be better for SD when used in a +P load. The 147gr seems to work well (expansion/penetration) with a standard load and it has more mass.
Again this all goes back to recoil while keeping expansion/penetration in mind. I'm expecting the +P and +P+ rounds to have a higher recoil. The problem is that all of the ranges around me only have 115gr standard loads. So I'm going to need to shop around to find the different variations to settle on a round that works for me. I may be over analyzing this but as I stated I've never really spent any time learning the details of the 9mm before. I have always shot a .45.
I've gotta say. The .45 is a much simpler caliber. 230gr standard load HP, simple
Some of the ones you guys have recommended like the SIG P229/226 look very promising. I'm checking out all of your recommendations, thanks again for your help.
As far as ballistics, the reason I was thinking about the 147gr is because from what I've read so far (correct me if I'm wrong) the 115gr works best for SD when used with a +P or +P+ load and the 127gr seem to be better for SD when used in a +P load. The 147gr seems to work well (expansion/penetration) with a standard load and it has more mass.
Again this all goes back to recoil while keeping expansion/penetration in mind. I'm expecting the +P and +P+ rounds to have a higher recoil. The problem is that all of the ranges around me only have 115gr standard loads. So I'm going to need to shop around to find the different variations to settle on a round that works for me. I may be over analyzing this but as I stated I've never really spent any time learning the details of the 9mm before. I have always shot a .45.
I've gotta say. The .45 is a much simpler caliber
. 230gr standard load HP, simple
gc70
Member
A 9mm gun might be the short-term answer to the symptom, but a visit to an orthopedic surgeon is probably the best route to determining the cause and treatment of the problem.
interesting comparison of the CZ 75 PCR and the H&K P-7.
so the P-7 has a longer barrel in a package which is about a half inch shorter and a quarter of an inch less tall.
the LE import P-7s on the market were running about $575 (grade "B" condition, the LNIB grade "A" were a bit over $600)...the only better buy are the LE import Sig P-6/225 which are running about $300
so the P-7 has a longer barrel in a package which is about a half inch shorter and a quarter of an inch less tall.
the LE import P-7s on the market were running about $575 (grade "B" condition, the LNIB grade "A" were a bit over $600)...the only better buy are the LE import Sig P-6/225 which are running about $300
more mass usually means more recoil. in .45 terms, think 230gr ball vs. 185gr SWC
check into the 147gr loads again, the non +P loads are usually sub-sonic and aren't known for reliable expansion. while 115gr loads are pretty much the standard for cheap practice, the +P loads are pretty much standard for SD. my preferences are the Speer 124gr Gold Dot is a +P loading and is outstanding. my non +P loading selection is the Federal 115gr BP
Your info's about 2 decades out of date. Modern ammo does just fine at low velocities. Especially Golden Sabers. Extremely consistent, and those bullets do better at lower velocities. Now, if you absolutely insist on using ammo that hasn't been redesigned since the 80's, like Silvertips, old style Hydra-Shoks, etc., then... even in those cases, velocity won't help you, since those old obsolete designs absolutely choke on heavy clothing. Light jacket, T-shirt, undershirt, and they refuse to expand at all, no matter what velocity they're driven at.
Use anything from the last decade, Golden Saber, Gold Dot, HST, SXT, etc., and you're fine. If anything, the heavier, slower loads are usually more consistent, and typically have larger expanded diameters and slightly deeper penetration.
As for "more recoil," that's not true at all. 147 gr at 990 fps has "as much" recoil, on paper, as 124 gr at 1180 fps. In reality, the 147 gr will have a slower kick, more like a push than a snap.
oneounceload
member
Another fan of the P7 - simply stated, it eats everything and is the most accurate handgun I have ever owned and shot, target revolvers included
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