M1 Carbine experts required

[Newton]

I picked up an M1 Carbine at a gun show recently, the little beauty just called out to me. All the research I normally do before a purchase just disappeared and well, I took a chance - simple as that.

Here's what I got and what I found when I took it apart.

The gun was sold as a Universal, when I disassembled it, the receiver was stamped Iver Johnson. I paid $395 out the door including tax and NICS.

The sight ramp just flops around, it looks as if the tiny return spring is missing, I jammed a small piece of black cardboard under the rear lip and it's as good as new. When I took the bolt out, I found an improvised oil soaked "shock buffer" at the back of the receiver which I removed. What concerned me a little was that a small portion of the bolt's rear end has been heavily peened but I can't see how it could have happened, part of the hammer maybe, I don't know.

The gun doesn't appear to have seem shot a lot and was advertized as such, the stock is like new and is constructed of an attractive paler wood, the bore looks new and the bluing on the feed ramp is unworn. I also picked up an original GI manual, cleaning kit and 2 original 15 round magazines still in wax cloth wrapping.

I live only 5 miles from Fulton Armory who specialize in the carbine and Garand, and they offer a full range of 'smithing starting with a $75 safety inspection and cleaning which I'm giving some thought to.

Visually the gun looks essentially new with the exception of the wear on the bolt rear and the other minor points mentioned.

I would appreciate any advice on how best to proceed.

Thanks

Newton

 

[Dave Markowitz]

I'm no M1 Carbine expert, but I do have some experience with them. AAMOF, I just got an Underwood made in 1943 from Ron in PA.

The Iver Johnsons are considered to be better than the Universals but not as good as GI Carbines, qualitywise. Also, the Universals are not true M1 Carbines and very few, if any parts will interchange. OTH, IJs will take GI parts.

I had an IJ Carbine back in the 1980s which had to go back to the factory due to peening on the bolt lugs. I believe that the bolt was not properly heat treated and was therefore too soft. It sounds like yours may be a bit soft as well.

I would call Fulton Armory and see if they'll look it over. You may need a new bolt. It might also be worthwhile to replace the op rod spring with one from Wolff.

HTH.

 

[3 gun]

The rifle you have is not mil spec so I don't know that FA would work on it. An Iver Johnson is a better rifle than a Universal. The easiest way to tell the difference is to look at the op rod and gas pistons. IJ copies the GI rifle, even allowing part to interchange in many cases. The Universal uses a press fit gas piston unit and an op rod with a cut out for the bolt. Read thru your manual and compare. An IJ will match very closely, the Universal won't.

Replacing the rear sight is something you can do, if you have a few simple tools and work with care. Having the work done should only add a few dollars to the cost. I'd guess in the $25-$50 range for a total. I'd take a picture of the rear of the bolt and keep an eye on it. Fit and finish wasn't high on the list on these rifles. Without seeing the bolt it's hard to tell if what you have is normal but it sound fairly typical.

For here in Ohio you paid a little to much for an IJ. Most run around the $325 mark. Still you're way below the cost of a GI rifle in the same shape. They make a nice shooter. I had one to save the good GI one from the wear and tear of plinking.

 

[Jim K]

Hi, Newton,

I am sorry to say this, but IMHO you paid way too much for that IJ. It would have been worse had it actually been a Universal.

You could probably have gotten a decent GI carbine for that or a bit more and had not only a good gun, but one with some historical value.

I strongly suggest you not spend any more money on it; leave it as is and use it for trading material if you find a good carbine (GI) or something else you want.

Jim

 

[Keith]

How best to proceed? Buy 5 boxes of .30 Carbine ammo and go to a location where you can line up beer cans and mow them down. Have fun!

There is a very good up-side to owning a carbine clone. They are every bit as fun to shoot and you don't have to worry about losing any historical or collector value. Since you paid a tad too much for this one you'll just have to shoot it more to get your moneys worth!

Keith

 

[Newton]

Keith

I picked up 150 rounds of UMC .30 Cal for $30 even and I intend to do just that as soon as this darned snow clears.

Now I just have to empty some beer cans

Newton

 

[telewinz]

The Iver Johnson is a fairly good copy of the GI version. IJ uses castings alot where as the WW2 versions were forged. Not that they had a choice, casting wasn't an option back then but due to the demands for high rifle production I'm sure they would have reverted to cast parts if they could. If you read the printed history available on the carbines you will note that quality and premature parts breakage was a common problem with only Underwood getting the nod from the defense inspectors for their good, consident manufacture. Several GI carbine makers came real close to losing their contracts because of the poor quality they were putting out. These "collector rejects" show up on the range all the time and their poor performance is assigned to the fact that they must be "parts" guns. Check Larry Ruth's History of the Carbine. Its well documented and even has an article on the Iver Johnson and Universal carbines. I've seen several Universals go around here for $325 and up so I don't think you paid too much for the IJ which is a much better carbine, better than some of the wartime issue carbines.

 

[larry408]

The Universal uses a press fit gas piston unit and an op rod with a cut out for the bolt.

3 gun, If you will check you will find out the you are talking about the newer version of the Universal Carbine. The older version will take USGI parts.

 

[3 gun]

I'd never heard of, or have seen a Universal rifle with GI parts. Must not be a large number of them or their owners know a good thing when they have it. I'll have to keep an eye open for one of these rifles. I need another shooter to help take the burden off the USGI rifle I'm using to teach new shooters with now.

 

[larry408]

3 gun,
The Universal you are talking about has 2 recoil springs. If you can find one with only 1 spring it will take USGI parts. On the older Universal's they made the receiver and used surplus USGI parts in it. The serial number on mine is in the 22,xxx range.

 

[Keith]

3 Gun.

I too have one of the older Universals with one recoil spring and mostly USGI parts. It runs like a champ.

Keith

 

[3 gun]

Sounds like you guys know a good thing when you have it! I know my carbine is one of my favorites. Just hope I can find an inexpensive GI or copy before the outdoor season starts up.

 

[telewinz]

Get the M888, mine works great!