M1 Carbine necked down to 22 cal

[George Dickel]

Back in the early 60's my friend's uncle, who tinkered with guns, took the M1 Carbine case and necked it down to 22 cal. Somehow he obtained or modified a 22 cal barrel to replace the 30 cal on the carbine. Was this something he thought up or was it fairly common? I'm not even sure what you would call that round.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I think that was a .22 Spitfire. Common enough to have a name given to it and there were conversions done for it.

 

[Pat Riot]

Apparently it was called the .22 Spitfire. I recall people talking about this round but I have not had any experience with it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Spitfire

A friend talked about doing this in the late 90’s thinking he had a new idea. I have heard of other similar cartridges being made using the .30 Carbine case as a “parent”. I recall there was another .22 made by someone other than Johnson (as mentioned in that link above)

 

[Varminterror]

The Johnson Spitfire was the only M1 Carbine I have really, really wanted to have in my life.

 

[kBob]

Power wise think hot loaded .22 Hornet but, hey, semi auto usable in high cap magazines.

Johnson advertised his 5.7 Johnson as the perfect survival rifle for South and Central America and given the USAF use of the .22 Hornet in survival kit guns he may have had something.

while a 40 grain Hornet bullet was standard loads could be made with the 35 grain then on the market for the Hornet and the 1/14 twist would supposedly stabilize the 50 grain .222 bullets of the time.

I think the fact that .30 carbine surplus ammo was then cheap and plentiful killed it as it was at least as expensive as any other new made round and reloaders, especially reloaders that modified cases to make new calibers, were thinner on the ground than say today in 1963.

-kBob

 

[JWF III]

Just 1 of my many “Grail” guns. I’ve wanted one for a long time. Had a line on 1 several years ago, but drug my feet too long. It was sold before I could get down to the store, which was only about an hours drive.

Wyman

 

[LoonWulf]

Someone on here is running a .22 spitfire/5.7 johnson (reminds me of the 3.5 floppy jokes)
I cant cant for the life of me remember who tho.....

 

[Demi-human]

Eidetic Memory Activate!

@hdwhit, are you around?
Did you get the sizing die hashed out?

Now, where did I leave my glasses last night?...

 

[Speedo66]

Could have modified all those left over M-1 Carbines to Spitfires and saved the cost and headaches of the M-16.

Is it time to don the flameproof suit yet?

 

[briansmithwins]

5.7x28 is a decent carbine cartridge if you’re looking for something commercially loaded.

It was originally designed for the FN P90, which was intended as a PDW much like the intention of the M1 carbine.

BSW

 

[Sistema1927]

Maybe I am getting senile, but wasn't there someone who was modifying M1 Carbines to .22 Spitfire, and then had ads with outrageous graphics, showing things like boaters shooting sharks?

 

[TTv2]

Back in the day it seemed everything was getting necked down to .22 for some reason. .32-20 became .218 Bee, .30-30 became .219 Zipper, .357 became .22 Jet, .222 became .221 Fireball (but that does have some merit if used in short barrels as a means to reduce the case capacity to improve performance) and even today we have the .22 TCM, which is a .223 shrunk down to fit in 9mm 1911 magazines and does get some impressive velocity from a 5 inch barrel.

Very few have really offered anything more than what was already available. .22 Hornet had been around since the 30s and could do a lot, but if you wanted the bullet heavier and be faster, the .222, .223, and 5.56 did that.

The appeal of forming a common case down to accept .22 has been around for a long time and it was a novel idea back in the day, but today it's rather silly considering what else is available. Really, the only thing that hasn't been tried that would be interesting is necking 9mm down to .22 and that's solely because of all the 9mm brass available at every range.

 

[Demi-human]

Really, the only thing that hasn't been tried that would be interesting is necking 9mm down to .22 and that's solely because of all the 9mm brass available at every range.

I don’t think there’s enough neck to do that with. Maybe there’s enough to neck down to .30, we can call it the .327 Sig.

 

[Armorer 101]

Great Scott, I am old enough to remember the advertisements for the 22 Carbine conversion kits. The contents of the kit was the .224 barrel and the dies. You just switched barrels and used regular Carbine mags. Seems like the company selling the kits was out of CT.

Also seems like the American Rifleman had articles about the cartridge and the conversion, years back. Most of the conversion interest was with $50-100 guns at the time.

 

[rust collector]

I remember the Mel Johnson ads from Popular Mechanics and the like. I thought those cut down M-1s were the bees knees (early PDW) but the marketing was a bit over the top and standard carbines ran $25 through the mail back then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melvin_Johnson

 

[Texas10mm]

Really, the only thing that hasn't been tried that would be interesting is necking 9mm down to .22 and that's solely because of all the 9mm brass available at every range.

It's been done. 22 TCM 9R

 

[Pat Riot]

Went looking for ads for the 5.7 Johnson carbines.

Found these here: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/carbine-ads-in-shotgun-news-19601975_topic2550.html





Found more here: https://www.johnsonautomatics.com/spitfire.htm

 

[Speedo66]

Maybe I am getting senile, but wasn't there someone who was modifying M1 Carbines to .22 Spitfire, and then had ads with outrageous graphics, showing things like boaters shooting sharks?

Here's a link to an ad for sale on Ebay, sharks included: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1963-MEL-J...600039?hash=item547f83d8e7:g:eb4AAOSwi0RXxLi7

Looks like he also developed his own cut down stocks with wire folder.

 

[MosinT53Hunter]

I have this one I bought off of Gunbroker cheap. Guess no one at the time wanted to deal with it, even the seller wasn't 100% sure what caliber it is in.

Its a USGI Inland receiver with a Winchester Model 77 22. lr barrel soldered on. Its an interesting configuration, but I have not shot it, nor think I will in the future. It had the parts on it to make my Universal Gen 1 working again.

 

[MosinT53Hunter]

Maybe I am getting senile, but wasn't there someone who was modifying M1 Carbines to .22 Spitfire, and then had ads with outrageous graphics, showing things like boaters shooting sharks?

I have seen the ad your referring too, I have one of the ads in my collection of old American Rifleman from the1950's. Its advertising the "new" 5.7mm Johnson rifle round and wirestocked M1 Carbine to take on your boat or plane for protection.

 

[rust collector]

It's been done. 22 TCM 9R

Although it resembles a necked down 9mm, the 22 TCM is actually a shortened 223 or 5.56. The 9R variant just pushed the bullet a bit farther into the case to ease feeding in the 9mm conversions.
It is a fun cartridge that I wish would be used in a carbine or high quality bolt action rifle.

 

[rodinal220]

I have one I built up years ago with a barrel from GPC and a spare receiver/parts. Its a neat little cartridge and too bad it never took off as its a perfect fit for the little carbine. Make sure you check what size barrel you have, .224 or a 223, this can cause pressure problems if you use the wrong size bullets. There are barrels made in both sizes floating around out there so slug your bore.

http://johnsonautomatics.com/messageboard/index.php?/topic/2116-update-to-57-mm-users/

http://www.johnsonautomatics.com/spitfire.htm

 

[TTv2]

It's been done. 22 TCM 9R

That uses the same case as .22 TCM, which is 5.56/.223

 

[Gordon]

Here is one for your stimulus checks and ammo and brass are also available on Gunbroker
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/864569965

 

[Speedo66]

Here is one for your stimulus checks and ammo and brass are also available on Gunbroker
View attachment 909889https://www.gunbroker.com/item/864569965

Was the serial number removed on that one?