M1 Garand Problem

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The_Armed_Therapist

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I have an M1 Garand that was bought through the CMP. Before anyone suggests it, know that I am well aware that the CMP will do what they can to make this right. However, I'm just not yet convinced this is necessary. Plus, I enjoy working on things myself.

So... Two shots have been fired through this thing since it was bought. In each instance, the round fired, but the bolt did not return to chamber the next round. The bolt would be jammed completely shut. I would use a screwdriver as a lever to forcefully open the bolt; it could NOT be manually manipulated. At this point, the round would be extracted. BUT, part of the rim of the brass was ripped off in the process.

The chamber looks relatively clean, but I'll be doing a thorough cleaning just in case. The extractor looks fine, as far as I can tell. The Op rod and spring seem OK. I will also clean out and double-check the gas system.

However, aside from these relatively standard things, I genuinely have no idea what the primary cause for this is. There are no bulges or anything in the ammo. It is the Greek surplus stuff. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Years ago, I took an M1 to Ordnance at Fort Polk, LA. The tech looked in the chamber with a chamber reflector, and called the Colonel. He let me watch as he used a Ruptured Cartridge Extractor to remove a case -- the head was pulled off, leaving the rest of the case in the chamber.

He looked into the chamber again, and said, "Well, I'll be %^%$#!" and used the Ruptured Cartridge Extractor to remove ANOTHER headless case.

Another look into the chamber, more cussing, and he extracted a THIRD headless case.

To say that I was impressed is an understatement.:D
 
I had the same problem with a garand. The chamber looked clean but wasnt, it took many cleaning to get it to where the brass would eject.
You need to thoroughly clean the chamber with solevant and a chamber brush.
As suggested also inspect chamber for a piece of brass. The chamber could be badly pitted for which there is no fix
 
I would start, as suggested, with cleaning the chamber using solvent and a chamber brush. When it really looks to be clean, clean it more. Try and get a good look in the chamber also. Something caused that stuck case in there.

Ron
 
Your not firing full over the counter 30-06 loads are you?

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk
 
Give CMP A Call

I had a problem with one of my service grades ~15 years ago - it was doubling - and called them up. I was put through to one of the armorers and we talked it through - he sent me another small part just in case, but the main thing was he was knowledgeable and helpful. If your rifle was sold as a rack grade, it could well have chamber issues; if you're not sure, I would recommend giving them a call. Won't cost you anything & might get you going in the right direction.

(The reason mine was doubling was because I was using grease on the hammer hooks. He advised me to use only a very light amount of light oil, like Rem Oil, and haven't had an issue since. It also explained why my M14 doubled 20 years before that...)
 
After thououghly cleaning and inspecting the chamber i would see how it feels to cycle rounds by hand to see if the chamber / ammo combination is too tight. Then i would drop a loaded round of Greek ammo in a Wilson gauge and measure it with calipers. Then fire a round of that greek ammo thru a bolt action over a chronograph. Lastly fire another brand of Garand safe ammo in the garand.
 
However, aside from these relatively standard things, I genuinely have no idea what the primary cause for this is. There are no bulges or anything in the ammo. It is the Greek surplus stuff. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Go find some new commercial ammunition made for the Garand. That Greek stuff is old and some of it is so old that it is unsafe. Gunpowder does not get better with age, one issue is that pressures climb with old gunpowder. Shooters don't understand why, primarily because shooters believe ammunition is immortal. When shooters have issues with old ammunition, they typically correctly report the problems, but their assigned causes to the high pressures are usually spurious. Kind of like the 19th explanations for yellow fever coming from the "vapors".


HXP at Perry . . .

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=115939

HXP 77 was the culprit. I won't shoot that stuff. A whole bunch of heavy bolt handle lifts in the 03 matches when it was issued at Perry. I have fired a lot of HXP 70, 72 & 73 with no issues at all, 03's and M1's.

Tombguard, What Ceresco is implying is that while HXP 77 ammo exhibited frequent and sometimes severe issues (excessive bolt lift force, dismounted op rods, duds, hangfires, etc.) there is the concern that other lots will have the same issues but with perhaps lesser frequency. If a manufacturing process doesn't have robust QC practices, more issues are lurking out there like snakes in the grass. I am not saying that you should avoid HXP ammo - I'm just saying that one should be aware that systemically the issues might extend beyond HXP 77 ammo

In the 2007 Perry matches it was '88 dated ammo that gave a lot of 03A3 fits on opening. I keep the saved round I had in rapids beside the silver medal I earned with 29 rounds. Believe me when I tell you it was locking those bolts up TIGHT. (As in roll out of position and beat them open.)
Click to expand...


Stiff Bolt Handle on SC 03a3
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=92269&highlight=high+pressure+greek
Took my SC 03a3 to the range a week ago, shooting fairly good groups at 100yds (~2MOA) with unsorted HXP. Had a problem though - occasionally the bolt handle would be VERY difficult to lift open. Never had that before with new production ammo, other sessions with HXP, and never had a problem when dry-firing (snap caps, etc). Didn't break anything evident, and everything APPEARS to function correctly. The brass all looks like I expect (There is some minor pitting in the chamber which shows on the brass, but does not effect extraction), it just felt like I needed a hammer or a crow bar to lift the bolt handle sometimes (but not always). Any ideas as to what is going wrong

Typical HXP problem. It will often be hard to chamber some rounds as well. I had 3 saved rounds in 2006 at the Western Games 1903 match when round 7 could not be extracted from the chamber and no one had a BFH handy. A wooden mallet later helped extract the round. That was in a pristine M1903 Remington with a perfect chamber. All other ammo I feed it functions perfectly. I have a 1903A3 that also has issues with HXP. About 10-20% of some lots are very long in the shoulder. I have a couple rounds that won't chamber in a 1903 at all. It almost looks like I put a No-Go gage in the chamber.

If it is only when you shoot HXP new ammo that is your problem and your answer. It's a problem that has existed with a great many bolt guns since the very first day that CMP began selling HXP ammo and has been much discussed in this forum and others for several years (and see, even today). It was a common complaint among shooters for years at the regional CMP Games and the Nationals when CMP was issuing HXP as the required ammo to use. As I stated before, in 2006, if you walked the line in every relay of the 1903 match you would see shooters having to slap bolts closed and struggle to get bolts open. Many saved rounds in rapid fire were the result and the reason for the many complaints for several years.

I doubt there is a single thing wrong with your rifle or anyone's rifle that is experiencing this problem with HXP in bolt guns. If other ammo feeds and extracts without problems you have the answer already. The long and short of it .....no pun intended....is the ammo, not the rifle. HXP brass is some of the greatest re-loadable brass out there but, it often sucks the first time around through a bolt gun. Nature of the beast.
Click to expand...

Try some new Garand specific ammunition, like Federal American Eagle, the stuff that says for M1 Garand use https://www.midwayusa.com/product/9...ngfield-m1-garand-150-grain-full-metal-jacket and tell us if the extraction issues go away.
 
Stuck case head? Run a bore snake from the muzzle end toward the chamber and see if a partial case comes out. Do it a couple of times. It just sounds like a stuck case head or bad ammo.

kwg
 
There is nothing wrong or unsafe with the Greek HXP. The issue at Perry had nothing to do with the Garand but the 1903. "Some" shooters experienced problems with rds being to long in their 1903. This is not the OPs issue
 
There is nothing wrong or unsafe with the Greek HXP. The issue at Perry had nothing to do with the Garand but the 1903. "Some" shooters experienced problems with rds being to long in their 1903. This is not the OPs issue
Click to expand...

The shooting community just does not seem to get it. That old surplus ammunition is on the market because some trained military Ammunition Technician, Ammunition Logistician, http://www.alu.army.mil/alog/issues/JulAug06/insen_munition_tst.html, or Navy Munitions expert, http://www.insensitivemunitions.org/ went through that pile of ammunition. Per his/her test procedures that old ammunition was determined to be too unreliable, too unsafe, too dangerous to keep in inventory.


Army Not Producing Enough Ammunition
http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/archive/2003/May/Pages/Army_Not3866.aspx

Regardless of what the Army decides to do with its industrial base, the fundamental issue does not change: the Army needs to produce more war reserve ammunition, Naughton said. Time is running out, he said. “Most of the ammunition in the stockpile today was built 20 years ago during the Cold War buildup.” Most rounds are designed to have a shelf life of 20 years. “We are outside the envelope of the shelf life on 40 percent or more of our existing ammunition. The rest is rapidly approaching the end of its shelf life.”
Ammunition does not “go bad” overnight, after it reaches a certain age, but “once it’s over 20 years old, the reliability rapidly degrades,” said Naughton. Within a few years, it will become increasingly difficult to shoot it. “You can predict that you’ll lose 7-8 percent of the ammo after the 20-year mark.”*

To replace the obsolete rounds, the Army would have to produce 100,000 tons of war reserve ammunition a year for the next seven years. Past that point, it would need 50,000 tons to 60,000 tons a year to sustain the stockpile. That represents about “half the level of the Cold War buildup,” he said.
Click to expand...

* I think what is meant, 7-8 percent per year after 20 years.


So this old, unstable ammunition hits the civilian market and all the little boys and girls think, "Wow!, I am getting a bargain!, Day old bread!!" :p In the fairy tale, Jack received magic beans for his cow, but that was a fairy tale. In real life, old surplus ammunition is a mixed bag. I have lots of accounts of firearms blown up with old surplus ammunition. Notice how much of the surplus ammunition on the market dates back from the 1970's and 1980's? This is not a coincidence.

So my advice, when I read of pressure problems in CMP rifles with old surplus ammunition, is to test the weapon with nice new ammunition, ammunition appropriate for the weapon, and see what happens. If the weapon functions flawlessly, then the old and nasty surplus ammunition is at fault.
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I took it apart, and completed a thorough cleaning of the bore, chamber, gas system, etc. Nothing seemed to be stuck in the chamber.

I'll be shooting it tomorrow morning to see what's up. If I still have the problem, I'll buy some new M1 Garand ammo to test. I've never had a problem with the surplus Greek stuff before.
 
Greek HXP was sold as surplus to CMP becuase they turned in their Garands and no longer had a use for it not becuase it is unsafe
 
I've shot a bunch of HXP ammo and have never had a problem. In fact, the CMP armorers swear by the stuff, so good luck if you tell them that that's the problem. Because it probably isn't.

Give them a call, they'll make it right. I agree it sounds like a problem with your chamber.

Laphroaig
 
The_Armed_Therapist said:
Stewbaby,

I have no idea. I'm holding it/working on it for a friend who is on assignment in the Army this summer. Is there a way to tell if that's the case?
Click to expand...
Pull the operating rod all the way back and lock it. Look at the gap under the rear upper handguard. You should see some barrel information on the now exposed barrel.
7MM%2008%20Barrel.png

What do you see?

Ron
 
No, it is not a special Garand. Typical .30-06.

OK, so...

Like I said, I cleaned the chamber pretty well, as well as the gas port. I shot 3 rounds of the Greek surplus with no problems. On the 4th, the shell did not eject; however, it did not "lock shut." The bolt attempted to chamber the next round, which just jammed up against the spent shell stuck in the chamber. I did not finish that clip.

Then I put in a clip of some Federal 150-grain ammo. Admittedly, I was not sure if it was ideal for a Garand--I just used what I had that wasn't 180-grains or so, thinking the 150 would be best. It shot the whole clip flawlessly.

At that point, an elderly lady next door came outside to work on her yard, and I didn't want to fire the M1 with her outside. (I shot this at a friend's rural home)
 
The_Armed_Therapist said:
I have an M1 Garand that was bought through the CMP. Before anyone suggests it, know that I am well aware that the CMP will do what they can to make this right. However, I'm just not yet convinced this is necessary. Plus, I enjoy working on things myself.

So... Two shots have been fired through this thing since it was bought. In each instance, the round fired, but the bolt did not return to chamber the next round. The bolt would be jammed completely shut. I would use a screwdriver as a lever to forcefully open the bolt; it could NOT be manually manipulated. At this point, the round would be extracted. BUT, part of the rim of the brass was ripped off in the process.

The chamber looks relatively clean, but I'll be doing a thorough cleaning just in case. The extractor looks fine, as far as I can tell. The Op rod and spring seem OK. I will also clean out and double-check the gas system.

However, aside from these relatively standard things, I genuinely have no idea what the primary cause for this is. There are no bulges or anything in the ammo. It is the Greek surplus stuff. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
Try some different ammunition before you condemn the rile.
 
joem1945 said:
Am I seeing what I think I'm seeing??? 7mm 08??
Click to expand...
Yeah, I got creative with that. Very good shooter. :)

@ The_Armed_Therapist, You really need to get the rifle out and do some serious shooting. So it did fire one clip of store bought commercial ammunition without a problem? But this time out it also had problem,s failing to eject?

Ron
 
Am I seeing what I think I'm seeing??? 7mm 08??
Click to expand...


Yeah, I got creative with that. Very good shooter.
Click to expand...

Gene Barnett marked his barrels that way, with the date, caliber, and usually twist. As the AR15 replaced the M1a on the firing line, Springfield Armory drew up a petition to allow 243, 7mm barrels on M1a's as "service rifles". The petition went no where. I don't know if it would have revived the M1a against the AR15 as the long range advantage of a 243/7mm-08 is more than washed out by the extra recoil in the rapids.

About twenty years later, a different bunch of bunnies on the NRA rules committee, and they make the AR-10 a service rifle, even though that rifle was never general issue to any Army.
 
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