eclancy
Member
Hi all,
...decide to adopt the M1 Garand Rifle?
Have fun.
Thanks again
Clancy
...decide to adopt the M1 Garand Rifle?
Have fun.
Thanks again
Clancy
M1/When did the USMC..
- Thread starter eclancy
- Start date
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cdbeaver
Member
My guess is 1942 or '43.
Vern Humphrey
Member
There were not enough M1s available early in the game to equip all our armed forces. The Marines bought M1s from the Army, and liked them -- in fact, they liked them so much that when the Army dropped the price, they asked Congress if they could use the surplus money to buy more, rather than turn the money back into the Treasury.
All first-line rifle-armed troops were equipped with the M1 by mid-43 (except, of course, for sinpers and similar specialists.)
All first-line rifle-armed troops were equipped with the M1 by mid-43 (except, of course, for sinpers and similar specialists.)
BowStreetRunner
Member
my guess is-
official adoption date: 1941
actual time for all frontline leathernecks to get them: ~1943
BSR
official adoption date: 1941
actual time for all frontline leathernecks to get them: ~1943
BSR
MrAcheson
Member
The way I heard it the Marines were quite happy with the 1903 Springfields they were using. Then they fought on Guadalcanal with Army GIs using M1s. Shortly thereafter the Marines decided that switching to M1s was a priority.
Snake Jenkins
Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2002
- Messages
- 57
I'm guessing '44. The marines already had the 1903A3 and the M1941 Johnson on hand in 1941.
Snake
Snake
Sunray
Member
"...bought M1s from the Army..." Bought. That's funny. As I recall a lot of Army guys lost their M-1's under mysterious circumstances on Guadalcanal. The official adoption, and it's one of the few questions not answered by Hatcher, was after Guadalcanal. I think it was late '42 or very early in '43. I'd have to rummage through my books. I've seen the date somewhere.
Detritus
Member
and
reminds me of a "paraphrase of a common excahnge", i saw during my reading over the past year or so. involves a Marine and a newly arrived rather cocky "doggie".
Soldier (to marine..): "hey Pops, you ought to toss that old relic and get you a GOOD rifle like Mine...."
Marine (who has been very quietly "stalking" this newly arrived soldier): " I follow YOU long enough, you won't need yours anymore and i'll Have one.."
the implication of course being that on guadalcanal all a marine had to do to get a garand was wait long enough and some poor army troop would "no longer be needing his".
Sunray
Member
Hi, Detritus. Isn't it daft that we remember bits and pieces of what we've read? I usually remember most of it, but haven't a clue from where, when asked. The really sad thing is that too many guys don't read at all. Hatcher's Notebook is a must read for shooters.
Badger Arms
Member
When I was at "Dissimilar Air Combat Training" in Oregon about a decade ago, the Marine mainitenance guys were eyeballing our tool boxes. Air Force, of course, nothing but the best. Turns out their structural maintenance guy was a pretty nice guy. Instead of stealing, I let him have some of my spares. Seeing how poorly these guys were equipped, made me sick. It's a wonder their Harriers could stay in the air. Only worse maintenance I've seen were the F-14 guys we had TDY to Elmendorf.
At any rate, the Marines have often been under-equipped throughout history. In this case, I don't think that is a fair comparrison.
At any rate, the Marines have often been under-equipped throughout history. In this case, I don't think that is a fair comparrison.
MrAcheson
Member
It comes from getting all their funding via the Navy. Interservice rivalry between the two pretty much demands than the Marines get the short end of the stick. Hence if the Marines and the Army can work together on a weapons system its almost always a good thing for them.
VG
Member
The Marine Corps conducted a Service Rifle trial concluding in December 1940, according to General Julian Hatcher's "Book of the Garand."
Test along with the M1903 Springfield were the Garand, a Winchester Semi-Auto, and the Pedersen rifle. The Marine Corps Officially selected the M1903 Springfield, while noting that the Garand was the best of the semi-autos.
The Marine brass were as completely hidebound as this appear. Most European Armies also shied away from the use of semiautomatic service rifles, the thinking being that they would result in prodigal ammo expenditure and were too complicated to be reliable.
The Navy and Marines even declined to contribute any funding to the development of the M1 prototype rifles, or "tool shop" rifles, though a few thousand dollars would have resulted in a much large quantity being built. So the Arsenal system duly set about tooling up to produce additional M1903 Springfields in support of the Marine Corps decision.
Anocedotes about the Garand were quoted by Hatcher, and others, from Marine Major J. George's book "Shots fired in Anger." Major George recounted how an Army patrol, accompanied by some of the Marines being relieved on Quadalcanal, were ambushed and opened up with their Garands. The Japanese apparently fled, and a few days later communications intercepts noted that new units had arrived on Quadalcanal "in which every man had a machine gun."
Major George also recounts the story of another patrol of how a Marine followed a GI closely, so that he could snatch up his Garand. Pressure by Marine grunts made the brass reconsider their decision. Marine Raiders were also equipped with Garands in part(Merritt Edson, as a distinguished marksman had been on the committee) and also reported tying them down with wire so that they would not be stolen.
The Marine Corps complained bitterly throughout the rest of the war that they were being given short shrift in delivery of M1's, although there is no evidence to support it. One result was that most servicemen were trained with M1903 Springfields, then issued Garands in theater.
It is wondrous that the poor Marines Corps was able to develop their own pixel camoflage uniforms despite being so impecunious. Army officers also tell their troops they're poor. Try telling soldiers you have budget to spend, and you get Special Forces travel vouchers!
Test along with the M1903 Springfield were the Garand, a Winchester Semi-Auto, and the Pedersen rifle. The Marine Corps Officially selected the M1903 Springfield, while noting that the Garand was the best of the semi-autos.
The Marine brass were as completely hidebound as this appear. Most European Armies also shied away from the use of semiautomatic service rifles, the thinking being that they would result in prodigal ammo expenditure and were too complicated to be reliable.
The Navy and Marines even declined to contribute any funding to the development of the M1 prototype rifles, or "tool shop" rifles, though a few thousand dollars would have resulted in a much large quantity being built. So the Arsenal system duly set about tooling up to produce additional M1903 Springfields in support of the Marine Corps decision.
Anocedotes about the Garand were quoted by Hatcher, and others, from Marine Major J. George's book "Shots fired in Anger." Major George recounted how an Army patrol, accompanied by some of the Marines being relieved on Quadalcanal, were ambushed and opened up with their Garands. The Japanese apparently fled, and a few days later communications intercepts noted that new units had arrived on Quadalcanal "in which every man had a machine gun."
Major George also recounts the story of another patrol of how a Marine followed a GI closely, so that he could snatch up his Garand. Pressure by Marine grunts made the brass reconsider their decision. Marine Raiders were also equipped with Garands in part(Merritt Edson, as a distinguished marksman had been on the committee) and also reported tying them down with wire so that they would not be stolen.
The Marine Corps complained bitterly throughout the rest of the war that they were being given short shrift in delivery of M1's, although there is no evidence to support it. One result was that most servicemen were trained with M1903 Springfields, then issued Garands in theater.
It is wondrous that the poor Marines Corps was able to develop their own pixel camoflage uniforms despite being so impecunious. Army officers also tell their troops they're poor. Try telling soldiers you have budget to spend, and you get Special Forces travel vouchers!
MrAcheson
Member
MARPAT is based on CADPAT, they did not develop the technology (although it is damn cool). Besides the Marines consider anything that differentiates them from the Army to be money well spent.
I think it is telling that while Seal Team Six was getting up to speed, they were firing more ammo than the entire Marine Corps.eclancy
Member
Hi all,
No one is there yet, but I got you all working. My books cover alot that Hatcher does not. if you have time check out one of my web sites.
http://www.garandm1rifle.com
Have fun
Thanks again
Clancy
No one is there yet, but I got you all working. My books cover alot that Hatcher does not. if you have time check out one of my web sites.
http://www.garandm1rifle.com
Have fun
Thanks again
Clancy
goalie
Member
Considering that it was peacetime, that wouldn't have been that big of a deal, as range qual would be the only counted rounds going downrange, and the stat cited in Marcinco's book didn't include stuff used on float or CAX type manuvers.. The Marine Corps is a lot smaller than most people realize.
VG
Member
And Marcinko is a lot bigger liar than most people realize....
Sir, you already answered this on Jouster, but you asked when they decided to adopt it, but quote the date of a letter for an order. Not to be a sharpshooter, but aren't those two different things?
eclancy
Member
VG,
Sorry you got me on that. I try to post to all the groups when someone gets the quiz. The file is dated as March 5, 1941. The files is from the Commandant of the USMC to the Chief of Ordnance, War Dept.
I hope this data helps.
Thanks again
Clancy
ps guys are getting hot at me because they can't answer the quiz. If you guys want just let me know and I will not post anymore.
Sorry you got me on that. I try to post to all the groups when someone gets the quiz. The file is dated as March 5, 1941. The files is from the Commandant of the USMC to the Chief of Ordnance, War Dept.
I hope this data helps.
Thanks again
Clancy
ps guys are getting hot at me because they can't answer the quiz. If you guys want just let me know and I will not post anymore.
VG
Member
To clarify, the letter you have is for their first order, correct?
One account I read of the deployment of the Marines to Quadalcanal states that some of them had Garands upon their initial landing. But they do not state a role or unit.
One account I read of the deployment of the Marines to Quadalcanal states that some of them had Garands upon their initial landing. But they do not state a role or unit.
Badger Arms
Member
Post multiple choice questions and we'll have more fun with them. Here, I'll post a few most people can get.
John Garand was born where?
a) Texas
b) New York City
c) Canada
d) Bethleham
The Clip on the M1 Rifle holds how many cartridges?
a) 10
b) 8
c) 30
d) as many as the magazine holds, silly
The M-1 rifle was NOT given to which of the following countries:
a) Korea
b) Haiti
c) Canada
d) Denmark
The M-1 rifle was inferior to which of the following designs:
a) M1941 Johnson
b) M1 Carbine
c) SVT-40 Tokarev
d) Anything designed by John Moses Browning.
How many magazines were considered standard issue for an M1 Rifleman?
a) 20
b) 12
c) 8
d) 1
Now, anybody can answer these questions. That's what I'm talking about.
John Garand was born where?
a) Texas
b) New York City
c) Canada
d) Bethleham
The Clip on the M1 Rifle holds how many cartridges?
a) 10
b) 8
c) 30
d) as many as the magazine holds, silly
The M-1 rifle was NOT given to which of the following countries:
a) Korea
b) Haiti
c) Canada
d) Denmark
The M-1 rifle was inferior to which of the following designs:
a) M1941 Johnson
b) M1 Carbine
c) SVT-40 Tokarev
d) Anything designed by John Moses Browning.
How many magazines were considered standard issue for an M1 Rifleman?
a) 20
b) 12
c) 8
d) 1
Now, anybody can answer these questions. That's what I'm talking about.
eclancy
Member
VC,
It's the order. I have soooo many orders and letters I call the data files or letters. The March 5, 1941 is the order. This is a small question but it needs to have an answer because now the BIGGER question can have an answer. When did the USMC GET M1 Garands. Which is not a quiz yet. But by having a known we can get closer to WHEN RECEIVED.
Thanks again
Clancy
ps if you guys want to help put a plug in for my books or CD. here's the site address.
http://www.garandm1rifle.com
It's the order. I have soooo many orders and letters I call the data files or letters. The March 5, 1941 is the order. This is a small question but it needs to have an answer because now the BIGGER question can have an answer. When did the USMC GET M1 Garands. Which is not a quiz yet. But by having a known we can get closer to WHEN RECEIVED.
Thanks again
Clancy
ps if you guys want to help put a plug in for my books or CD. here's the site address.
http://www.garandm1rifle.com
VG
Member
John Garand was born where?
a) Texas
b) New York City
c) Canada
d) Bethleham
The Great White North
The Clip on the M1 Rifle holds how many cartridges?
a) 10
b) 8
c) 30
d) as many as the magazine holds, silly
10 rounds of .276, 8 of 30.06
The M-1 rifle was NOT given to which of the following countries:
a) Korea
b) Haiti
c) Canada
d) Denmark
The Great White North.
The M-1 rifle was inferior to which of the following designs:
a) M1941 Johnson
b) M1 Carbine
c) SVT-40 Tokarev
d) Anything designed by John Moses Browning.
Ha, ha
How many magazines were considered standard issue for an M1 Rifleman?
a) 20
b) 12
c) 8
d) 1
Zero. But the number of clips specified in the Basic Load seems to have varied by unit. The 2nd Battalion Rangers carried 16 clips, according to the book "Rudder's Rangers."
a) Texas
b) New York City
c) Canada
d) Bethleham
The Great White North
The Clip on the M1 Rifle holds how many cartridges?
a) 10
b) 8
c) 30
d) as many as the magazine holds, silly
10 rounds of .276, 8 of 30.06
The M-1 rifle was NOT given to which of the following countries:
a) Korea
b) Haiti
c) Canada
d) Denmark
The Great White North.
The M-1 rifle was inferior to which of the following designs:
a) M1941 Johnson
b) M1 Carbine
c) SVT-40 Tokarev
d) Anything designed by John Moses Browning.
Ha, ha
How many magazines were considered standard issue for an M1 Rifleman?
a) 20
b) 12
c) 8
d) 1
Zero. But the number of clips specified in the Basic Load seems to have varied by unit. The 2nd Battalion Rangers carried 16 clips, according to the book "Rudder's Rangers."
Badger Arms
Member
Actually, each M1 was equipped with a single magazine. That was a trick question.
eclancy
Member
Hi all,
There is a ton of data on the USMC question. Some could have gotten into combat at an early date. We know that March 5 1941 was when the USMC wanted the M1 Garand. The next question could when did they receive them. Back then there were two groups in the USMC. Next quiz you might find of interest.
Thanks again
Clancy
There is a ton of data on the USMC question. Some could have gotten into combat at an early date. We know that March 5 1941 was when the USMC wanted the M1 Garand. The next question could when did they receive them. Back then there were two groups in the USMC. Next quiz you might find of interest.
Thanks again
Clancy
- Joined
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- Messages
- 22,510
OK, where was Garand born? I went there but guess what, no one heard of him and City Hall burned down years ago so there's no records of the family farm there. The old school he attended is still standing and I'm going to ask my buddy to see if there's records there.
BTW, EClancy, keep the questions coming.
BTW, EClancy, keep the questions coming.
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