M16 vs M4

[Sergei Mosin]

I'm old-school when it comes to guns - I like walnut and blued steel, bolt-action rifles and single-action automatics. I have traditionally viewed plastic and aluminum with deep suspicion, and the less said about optics the better.

But I've been thinking about getting an AR.

Made the rounds of the local gun stores today and handled some ARs for the first time, both in M4 and M16A2 configurations. I want something I can shoot in High Power matches, plink with at the range, and maybe use for home defense in a pinch. I don't have any desire for a National Match race gun or to hang all manner of lights and optics off it - iron sights for me. For those of you experienced with both types, what are the advantages/disadvantages of each?

 

[Nicky Santoro]

I'll start. The M4 will be a bit lighter. Sans optics, the A2 should be potentially a bit more accurate due to a longer sight radius. The A2 will have a softer recoil pulse which aids reliability. For HD the M4 is shorter and thus handier, especially inside the home. That being said, my preference is door#3, A1 configuration with the lighter pencil barrel and the shorter buttstock.
FWIW
YMMV

 

[bryank30]

If your going to be shooting in hi power matches then you better get a 20'' national match service rifle with the free float tube under the factory handguard, timney adjustable weight trigger and the A-2 style fixed stock, krieger barrel with hi twist 1-7.7 barrel. That rifle on a good sinclair benchrest and a protektor rear bag with bunny ears will walk away from a typical M-4 with its collapsible stock and shorter and less velocity barrel.

 

[firesky101]

I agree 20" is the way to go for hi power matches. If you go for an m4, and don't go with a real SBR, get the 16" barrel not the 14.5" with a permanent flash hider. No reason to give up velocity without versatility. I think you should look into a midlength upper as well if you go 16". Softer on the parts than carbine length.

 

[dprice3844444]

find out which company makes the cmp/nra approved ar-15

 

[Onmilo]

For High-Power or Service Rifle Match you will need a target grade 20" A2 upper and a lower with a good quality 2 stage trigger.
You can add a 16" upper tricked up tactical style for home defense & pleasure shooting.

 

[C-grunt]

For mostly target shooting the rifle will give you a longer sight radius as well as more muzzle velocity to help at range. Bravo Company makes a M16A4 clone that you can get for under 1k and will be top of the line.

 

[Welding Rod]

I would definitely get the 20". Personally I would probably get a Rock River Standard A2, maybe with a SS barrel.

I have one, but with a chrome lined barrel and it will shoot MOA no problem. This is with standard plastic handguards. The heavy barrel doesn't shift POI much when you sling up. I used it in a 200 yard high power match and did quite well.

The free float tubes are nice but add a lot of weight to the gun as well.... OK in a match, but not so desireable off the firing line.

I have a couple BCM 20" with government profile barrels too. They are fun to shoot and easy to carry, but it would be much harder to be competiitive with one in a match.

 

[ZGunner]

I've read very good things about the S&W M&P15 Sport, best bang for your buck as far as ARs go I reckon. A dissipator would have a longer sight radius with a short barrel. But if you're shooting in a match you'll definitely want a longer barrel. Happy medium would be a Stag Arms 3G.

 

[mortablunt]

I'd go for the M16 design because the M4 short barrel length compounds the 5.56 ammunition issues. The longer 20" barrel gives more accuracy and a higher muzzle velocity, which is an overall plus for 4 extra inches of barrel. Besides, everybody wants the 16" tactical M4 AR's. I think that the M16 style uppers have gone down in price since I first started keeping track of this stuff, though I could be wrong, seeing as I first became interested during the late days of the AWB.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

Thanks, all. I get the impression that the rifle-length AR is preferred for competition, the carbine-length AR for fun and as a backup HD gun. Does that sound about right?

 

[HoosierQ]

I cannot speak with nearly the experience as your other respondents here but I just bought an A2 style 20" iron sighted, fixed stock model as I too have an old school tendency. Had I wanted a carbine, I'd have gotten an M1 Carbine. Had I wanted a long range scoped rifle, I would have gotten a bolt-action, wooden stocked sporter, and had I wanted a big bore battle rifle, I'd would have gotten a Model of 1917. I still want all those things but I felt the A2 style rifle was the best for all around rifle functionality. Plus, having many friends with ARs in various configs, I find the darned things just a tremendous amount of fun to shoot...just crazy enjoyable really.

I always liked the A1 style as well and had I seen one of those, new, on shelf, I might have gone that way. I have no regrets with my purchase as is though.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

HoosierQ, which rifle did you buy?

 

[C-grunt]

Thanks, all. I get the impression that the rifle-length AR is preferred for competition, the carbine-length AR for fun and as a backup HD gun. Does that sound about right?

Basically yes.

 

[Pat M]

Buy the full-length AR for competition, and get an M4 upper at a later date. Swapping uppers takes about 30 seconds and requires no tools.

 

[Dr.Rob]

The collapsing stock is great for moving around in tight spaces, adjusting to different shooters and your amount of gear/clothing.

But it's NOT as stable as a fixed stock.

 

[Kurt_D]

Buy the full-length AR for competition, and get an M4 upper at a later date. Swapping uppers takes about 30 seconds and requires no tools.

Be very careful doing this... spare uppers have a tendency to sprout lowers and then you'll have a breeding pair and be up to you armpits in little ARs in no time.

Really though, this is a good idea. There's no cure for BRD anyway.

 

[madcratebuilder]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

THIS

They breed like rabbits!

 

[JShirley]

Carbines can be defined by barrel length or caliber. It is not incorrect to refer to all M16/AR15 family weapons in their original caliber as carbines.

 

[1911 guy]

If you're looking at shooting High Power matches, I agree. Go with the 20" barrel in a "Government Profile". That's about the only way you'll get the 1:7 twist. You'll need the twist because you'll be seating heavy bullets to max magazine length.

I'd opt for non-chromed bore if it's an option. I had a chromed bore NM rifle and it shot great. However, I've heard that non-chrome shoots just a hair better.

You'll want NM sights rather than the standard A2. The front blade is narrower, allowing for a finer bead and the rear drum has finer adjustment than the rough 300-800 meter.

Ideally, you'll be shooting practice matches and recording your rear sight setting at each position and range.

 

[henschman]

For a High Power competition rifle, I would get an upper from White Oak Armory. They are pretty much the standard when it comes to that.

You generally want a stainless steel, HBAR-profile barrel for Service Rifle competition. There is no advantage to a lighter gov't-profile, since weight isn't much of an issue in stationary positional shooting, and if anything, a little weight helps you. You want the fixed carry handle, not the removeable one. You want the free float tube that looks like the factory handguard. And you want NM sights. You also want a very high quality barrel. WOA gives you all of those things.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

Thanks for the advice. I decided a fun gun was more appropriate to my wants than a match gun, especially for a first AR, so I ordered a Windham Weaponry MPC.