M1903/03A3 Drill Coverted to .22

[41022collector]

Ok Boys and Girls, the last project, the M1 Garand converted to use M14 Mags and to .308 has been settled, it will be done and in my hands in a cpl months. In the meantime... Looky what we will do..... .

NOW... the next project, done in house will be, yeah, you guessed it.... The conversion of a M1903A3 Rifle to become a Bolt Action .22 Magnum rifle.

I have 3 - 03A3's that are almost exactly the same, so one will sacrifice itself to become a project rifle.

This will be done basically like the Reid Coffield series in Shotgun News vol 63 issue 11, page 22 "What can you do with a Drill Rifle." with a few creative changes. I will make mine .22mag 5 shot rather than .22lr single shot, some slight sight changes as well as adding a military style scope. The other difference is that this is not a Drill rifle (all welded up) where the forward ring has been ground or cut out, rod welded into the barrel and magazine welded. This is a full up 03A3 to be converted.

1. The first work will be to the bolt.
2. Remove the barrel (sell this barrel and get a Douglas .22mag barrel and add the 03A3 sights to it as well as the furniture)
3. Receiver work
4. Magazine work
5. Wood Work
6. Sight and scope work.

Now, for you purists.... sorry, I love projects. For those of you that like projects, I will create a step by step instruction with pics and measurments and simple blue prints on how to do this on an 03A3. Coffields piece gave fairly tight groups. I gave some thought to making it a .17hmrf or the 5mm and still may do so on a actual Drill Rifle later on.

I promise, I will pray to the 03A3 gods for forgiveness.

Here are my before pics. I will add the during and after pics as the work progresses and a range report after it is all done. YES, I understand this should be done on a welded up drill rifle, but I am old and do not have that much patience or time left.

After I am done with this piece, I am going to donate it to my local CMP group to auction off for their groups funds. So, I feel the ends justify the means.

 

[MagnumDweeb]

You going to be following the guy out of Shotgun News who has been doing the conversion or going your own way(he did his in .22lr). I thought about do it but I'm in law school, running a small business, getting ready to launch another one in December(yeah it takes that long if you want it done right), so my time isn't my own. I thought I could do it with a drill rifle(you can get them from Sarco for less than $175) and getting the necessary parts from other sources. I can't bring myself to chop up a working 1903, but a drill rifle that has been retired I can play Frankenstein with all day. If spare barrels weren't so ridiculous to get in 6.5x55 I'd want to try one in that caliber(looked at for a couple beatup Mausers I've acquired recently, but barrel prices made me just harvest the Mausers for spare parts, they only cost me $80).

Are you going with a kit or using a spare .22lr barrel, ripping out the mag guts all together or just pulling the spring and installing a rotary magazine, etc. etc. I love homebrewing. I wish there were more hours in the day.

 

[HarleyFixer]

Probably get more out of the auction if you leave it stock. BTW that is a good looking rifle. Sure hate to see you butcher it.

 

[Sam1911]

Sure hate to see you butcher it.

Amen. Best way to make a $150 rifle is to start with a $600 rifle and a "great idea."

Can't find an already bubba'd '03A3 sporter somewhere?

I know not everyone sees ownership of a pristine historic artifact as a kind of trust for future generations, but you could sell that to someone who does and make enough to cover some of the costs of your project rifle.

-Sam

 

[41022collector]

Ok One I did not pay $600 for it, I bought all three for $275 (that is approx $92 a piece) from Al Sirat Grotto (Big Six) rifle team, they are going to switch to M1A's. Most of the drill teams for Masons and Al Sirat & Scottish Right are moving to the M1A's. Many of those teams have some fantastic 30-40 Krag and P17's, ya just have to approach them to see if they will sell them. There is enough historical pieces around that doing this one truly will not hurt the herd. I am at least saving the orig barrel for someone else to use.

Two, I am doing the project just cause it is a cool project and one with some basic advanced shop equipment, the average Joe can do with decent results. Folks forget the fun gunsmithing at home projects of the 50's & 60's where many classics were made into fun pieces for many reasons.

Three, I am a full time smith (working part time in my retirement), have the equipment and the resources to do it right.

MagDweeb: Yes from the shotgun news article but different in scope and intent. I will be using a douglas barrel, reather then a cut and piece together the old barrel. The mag well and pieces parts will be reconfigured to accept 5 - 22mag. Estimated time is about 52 hours over a 2 month period. The mausers you mention are problimatic due to how the bolt engages, can be done, but you truly need to know how to set the .22 barrel back and reset the bolt face. All in all, many 03's have been converted to many things, but a .22mag just sounded like a fun time.

Honest guys, I understand your sentioments on old warhorses... but.... we all need projects, this one will be mine.

The two converted pieces I have seen, both went well over $900 on Gunbroker, so truly, I have zero fear of losing money for the CMP group I am in that I will donate this finished piece to.

Regards,
Mike

 

[41022collector]

LOL You call it butchering, I call it remodeling. It will look good when I am done, I promise.

 

[Joe Demko]

Why would you start with a good looking and functional rifle for a project like that? The Bubba is strong in this one.

 

[41022collector]

Joe, simply because most at home smith could not convert a Welded Drill Rifle. This project is actually from a 1963 Popular Mechanics series. It was often done by home smithys and I am just bringing it back. Don't cry for the loss of an 03, be happy it is not a VW or a Yugo after melting.....many old pieces do go to foreign melts, sadly.

Magdweeb, No this is not a kit, all home grown, but from an 1963 Popular mechanics project. I just added a few twists and with the advent of so many 03's being avail, seemed like a great come back project.

The popular mechanics project used a full up 03, not a welded drill piece.

Regards,
Mike

 

[RonE]

That is a very nice looking 03 A3 and will make a great platform for conversion to rim fire regardless of what cal you finally decide on. If you are going to leave the military sights on, I would suggest some sort of side mount for the scope.

Looking foreward to the project.

 

[41022collector]

RonE, yes there will be a side saddle mount just like the sniper version. I found a nice sniper mount at a gun show, but the rifle work needs to be done to make it fit. Yes, I am going to re-install the orig military sights, they will need some milling of course, but that is the easy part. Like I said, I will post the during project and final pics.

Mike

 

[jackdanson]

Hey guys, I just got an original 66 shelby GT, I think I'm going to put a prius engine in it, whaddya think!?



Heh, hey it's your money and gun, do what makes ya happy.

 

[41022collector]

Jack exactly on the my money and piece... but one huge difference, these pieces are not as rare as the shelby at all. Ton of them for sale via the Masons and those orgs and not for the ridiculas costs of the beater CMP pieces. Heck you can get actual welded drill pieces from ROTC units for like $50, not the over inflated Sarco prices, just takes some leg work and negotiation skills.

Mike

 

[Sam1911]

Folks forget the fun gunsmithing at home projects of the 50's & 60's where many classics were made into fun pieces for many reasons.

No, they're hard to forget. Go to any gun show or look in the back of the used rack at any old gun shop and you'll see the grisly reminders of all that fun. Tons of '03s and '03A3s, P14s, 1917s, k98s, No.4Mk1s, heck even Krags, all testaments to the gunsmith's art. Most are perfectly functional, accurate, and a great deal because NO ONE wants them any more.

It's odd math, for sure, but you take a rifle that would have been worth good money and would have preserved a small bit of history, add a few $100s worth of parts, a few $100s worth of a master gunsmith's time and you're left with a lonely dust collector that a dealer is thrilled to sell off for a couple of hundred bux.

One I did not pay $600 for it, I bought all three for $275

And the old days smiths paid even less than you. Doesn't make it a good thing.

most at home smith could not convert a Welded Drill Rifle.

Then show them how. If you're starting with something worthless and making something of value, great. You're starting with something with both historical and monetary value and making a transient gee-gaw out of it.

There is enough historical pieces around that doing this one truly will not hurt the herd.

Yeah, they keep saying that, don't they? "No single drop believes that it is responsible for the flood." Well, I guess it's one less than before, now. Great...

-Sam

 

[41022collector]

Sam1911, I understand you, honestly, I do. Just come to my shop and look at the pristine history I have not touched, just cleaned, oiled and placed on the rack, nobody buying them. Yes, they are priced below market and still no sales, so I am going to take a few here and there and create something new and different and show some home smiths how to do it. Just my shop alone has more then enough historical pieces to preserve history for a long time.

The reason I am NOT doing a welded drill piece, is that Ried Coffield already did as recently as this March, but he even says for most home shops and smiths, it is a hard and dangerous conversion due to the weld breaking and reforming. What I am doing requires NO breaking of welds, annealing or re-heat treating. Just some basic semi-advanced shop tools such as a drill press, Mill vise, small end mill, files, steady taps and die, and basic measuring tools such as micrometers, calipers and depth gages.

The parkerizing (not bluing) will be done by an outside source.

Most of the home smith pieces I have ever had in here have sold, not sit around collecting dust as you say. There is a re-surgence of interest in home smith projects and I'd like to be in that wave. If this project gets just one more person interested in a great hobby and also at a range shooting then I feel my efforts are well worth it.

Regards,
Mike

 

[Joe Demko]

Here's a thought: If you absolutely have to Bubba up a surplus rifle, bastardize a Mosin-Nagant. It'll still be an atrocity, but there are a good many millions of them in the world. You'll also have something that nobody else does...though you could say the same thing about individual snowflakes or dog turds.

 

[41022collector]

Joe, actually, Sam Ramey in NM makes converted Mos Nags in to .380acp .32acp, .22mag and .17HMRF. There are 10's of thousands of 03 & 03A3's, if this was a rare piece, of course I would not convert it. It is a standard, run of the mill 03A3. nothing more or less. You are acting as if this is the only 03A3 left alive. It is a simple project on an inanimate object. Relax and calm down and enjoy the ride.

 

[1KPerDay]

If you want to help out your CMP group, let them auction it off before you kill it. They'll make more money. But you don't strike me as the type of guy who listens to reason.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Better to take a sporterized Springfield and re-configure it to M-2 Springfield configuration.

BTW, I own an original M-2 Springfield rifle. It's star gauged and is a great shooter.

 

[loneviking]

I just shudder at what I'm reading. There seem to be fewer and fewer of these grand old warhorses out there and I can't see the sense in making a .22caliber boat anchor out of it. Still, it's your gun and it is a project.

Help me understand something, and that is 'why a .22?'. If you want a bolt action .22, Savage has 'em. What does the Springfield platform do for the .22that you can't buy off the shelf? I could see this project as a good idea for something like the 25-06, but a 22?

 

[41022collector]

1kperdaylease, your reasoning is not at all sound. I have already told ya, the last two I have seen on Gunbroker that have been converted to rimfire and done well, went for well over $900, so there is NO loss to the CMP as it will be more than the $395 to $600 a 03A3 would get, CMP folks are not going to pay more for something they can already get dozens of. Now an 1903 w/o the stamped parts and stuff that the A3 has, yeah I agree, but not the 03A3. I do listen to reason if the reason is justified and sound, so far, I have heard no reasoning not to do this project. Just because some will cry at the loss of a run of the mill 03A3, I do not hold the historical sense of material goods that some do. There are more than enough historical pieces left, actually more than most other so called historical pieces.

LoneViking: Please read the entire thread. Actually, the US Gov't just dumped a ton of the 03's and 03A3's on the market via CMP and Drill Squads that want to change to M1A's. There are more than enough around. If you read the entire thread, I think I have explained who, what, when, where, why and how. There are NO 22 pieces on a Military 03A3 platform format except .22 Trainers (I.E. the Springfield M-2 and Mossys M44) those just do not fill the grade at all because now, those are rare and go look and see what those are going for. I would rather not start with a sporter and then have to replace all the furniture and wood anyways, now to me, that makes no sense at all. I have a nice matched piece right now that can make a perfect .22 mag trainer.

This is just a fun project, a can do for a common home smithy as long as they have the instructions and the basic tools and basic shop knowledge.

I cannot shoot a 25-06 in the back yard or just go plinking and have you seen the cost of ammo and components lately, no thanks, a .22 mag rimfire is where I want this one to be.

You all are more than free to go save all the pieces you want, I for one, found these for cheap and will convert one to .22mag.

Regards
Mike

 

[41022collector]

4v50: I agree, I like the M-2 as well, just cannot afford one. I got these 03A3's for about $90 a piece and see no reason not to make one of the three into a .22 rim fire. It could be worse, I could have chosen the .410ga shotgun conversion in the same series of 1960's popular mech LOL

The last decent M-2 I had seen was bid up to like $1100 and mossy's have that dang plastic trigger guard that most likely has or will break. Sarco and Numrich requires you to take out a second mortgage just to talk about replacement of it. I have seen some real beater M-2's for like $300-$400 over the past year and I guess I could have gotten one of them and restored it. By the time restoration is done, you still have a $1000 piece.

Regards,
Mike

 

[Joe Demko]

This "poll" actually served no purpose other than giving you the opportunity to agitate preservationists. Same with your M1 thread. You'd already made up your mind what you were going to do.
Your guns, eff them up any way you want. I, however, decline to participate in any future quasi-trolling efforts on your part.
Good day to you.

 

[t_dickinson]

Why did you even post the poll if you already made up your mind? Why would you show pictures of a beautiful rifle in such great condition just so folks could marvel at the beauty that you will soon change forever. Good for you, you got three guns that I will never be able to touch for less than a brake job. Don't get argumentative when people get upset at what you're doing. You knew this would create a stir. You knew it would draw attention and you got it.

Sure, it will sell. But not because it's a .22 mag. It will sell because it's a .22 mag that looks and feels like an 03A3...until you squeeze the trigger.

As said by others, its yours so do whatever you want and ruffle feathers in the process. I hope it makes a million. People will buy anything so don't let that validate your intentions.

Good smiths are not a dime a dozen. Why not use your talent to save a piece, not destroy it. Jonas Salk was a talented physician; then again, so was Jack the Ripper.

BTW if you have so many underpriced historic guns that won't sell, post a list and we'll see about taking them off your hands.

 

[41022collector]

I am not trying to ruffle any feathers. I added the pics for the before shots and will add the during and after shots.

Just because I am not a preservationist on these pieces does not mean I need subcomb or subscribe to others views or wishes, I believe I am a USA citizen as you are and we are all entitled to our own opinions and goals. I am NOT asking you to do these projects, I am doing them for me and any others that wish to try it. If you are so inclined to, so be it, if not, so be it.

The poll truly was for me to find out what cal would be more fun worthy, the poll shows .22lr, so I just may do that, I still feel a .22mag would be more fun as there are M2's out there in .22lr. I was honestly betting that more would want the new/old 5mm Remmy RF.

The fact that you or anyone else does not have these pieces should not matter. They were and are avail to all, same opportunity, all you have to do is the leg work and the negotiations. All of these so called historical pieces have been for sale in my shop for damn near foreever at well below market rates. People just do not want them unless they are given to them. I have well over 90 diff so called historical pieces in my shop and they do not move.

Too many sources, too many players for them out there and to be honest, the market if flooded with all of these old warhorses. I have Garands, P17's, Krags, 03's, 03A3's, Carbines, Mausers, Carcano's, Arisakas, Nambos, 45's, P-38s, S&W Ejector, Lugers a cpl of Model 12's, some great 1970s AR15 and A1's, all just sitting there. It is about time I do something with them and that is exactly what I am doing. I am not a museum nor a historical buff or a purist or a preservationist.

Yes, I have been a smith for the last 23 years and to be honest I am tired of just replacing parts and fitting scopes and a few blue and parkerizing jobs here and there or restoring the occasional worthy piece. I repair about 20 - 30 pieces a week and it is mundane, mostly due to peopl doing very stupid things to their pieces, now I want to do some fun for ME projects.

If people wanted to preserve the past so badly, then let them come and buy these pieces. I will find other fun and worthy projects to do.

There are other views besides just one side, I have mine and you have yours and others have theirs. There is NO reason to bash someone for doing something they want to, state an opinion yes, but no reason to be mean or insulting just because what I want to do is NOT what you or they would do. Do not cry foul when someone actually contests anothers views.

Yes Joe, I already made up my mind on the M1 Tanker project, there I did not ask for any opinion or permission (never knew I needed to), I only asked for the addy and contact info of folks who do the work. If it is so bad to do this work, why are there so many doing it, 7 various outfits so far, with some a back log of 1 1/2 years.

This project on the 03A3 I did want OPINION, not to be bashed or jeered. I got bashed, I bashed back. I was aksing mostly for what cal should it be in. I gave sound reasoning for doing the project and all I got back was "Save the History," and I repiled there is more than enough history around to preserve the past. You say I am effing em up, I say I am making them more worthy to have fun with. I honestly believe that and was not intended to bait anoyone,. It is just my opinion.

Yes I knew this subject would draw attention, but I never expected the O3A3 Tree Huggers to escape their sanctuaries and attack me, I have been waiting for Abby Hoffman to come back from the dead to throw a 'Monkey Wrench," into the works somewhere. I am HIGHLY surprised I have not received a Cease and Disist court order from some Historical Preservation Group based on some of the rants I have seen here.

I am not the first, nor will I be the last to do smithy projects on old war horses. I also feel I am preserving the intent and the future (not the past) of Home Smith projects as was done in the 40's, 50's and 60's, the real fun times in firearms and projects.

The reason there are so many diff pieces in the world is because someone feels one is better than the other, that this cal is better than that cal, that this custom load is better than that one, this scope is better than that one. Trust me, I hear the arguments day in and day out here at the shop... on and on and on.

Sorry if I offended anyone, I also forgive anyone offending me. The Garand will be done, the 03A3... I am still thinking the project out.

God Bless

Regards,
Mike

 

[j-easy]

for what its worth, CMP is completely sold out of all 1903a3's. I have been casually shopping for a 1903a3 for a while now and have had trouble finding one but, feel free to do whatever you want, its your rifle. but in my experiences they have become much harder to find in recent times and are no longer a dime a dozen like mosins. i guess this is why