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M1A Purchase?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by ExAgoradzo, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. MTMilitiaman

    MTMilitiaman Member

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    That is retarded. As a left-handed shooter, that JRA should be labeled as being right-handed, as the standard "right hand" version is actually better for lefties. Putting the charging handle on left side benefits right-handed shooters most and is arguably how the rifle should have been designed to begin with. Lefties like reciprocating charging handles on the right side. I can run an M1A or an AK lights out as a lefty, and by that I mean straight up leave most even well practiced right handed shooters in the dust, which is why it might be a little bizarre how I've grown less fond of those designs the last few years.
     
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  2. DukeConnor

    DukeConnor Member

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    My M1A scout is my favorite rifle. The bestiron sights I have ever used. I am aporoaching the 2500 round mark and nothing has rattled loose yet.
    People make to much of a big deal over cast or forged recievers. Sometimes I think it is just internet regurgitation. It would be my last rifle to part with.
     
  3. samtron

    samtron Member

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    Where?
     
  4. Flatbush Harry

    Flatbush Harry Member

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    I'm a fanboy of larger, heavier bullets for nearly all purposes. For semi-autos (and for TEOTWAWKI), I enjoy shooting my M1 Garands and SAI M1As. I have shot them all in Mil Hi-Power matches and, though I'm a middle of the pack to bottom half finisher, am pleased to let the more competitive shooters enjoy their AR 15s. Recently, my M1As may have reproduced as I have a walnut-stocked M1A Scout Squad in the back of my safe.

    I'm planning to go out to Camp Perry for my 75th b'day in a couple of years and I'll use my SAI 1978 M1A SuperMatch (ser. no. 0013XXX, 1978 manufacture) for the M1A Match and my SA Correct Grade M1 Garand (ser. no. 58XXXXX, 1955 manufacture) in the Hi-Power Match. Finishing order is unimportant, finishing is the goal, even if it's DFL.

    BTW, my Dad, who carried an M1 Garand on New Guinea and taught me how to clean and lube mine; I have never had FTFs, FTEs or issues in more than 30 years of using mine. If necessary, and as long as I have M2 Ball, I'll trust my life to one of my Garands or, with M118, to one of my M1As. Remember, it ain't the arrows, Tonto.

    Cheers,
     
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  5. maxxhavoc

    maxxhavoc Member

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    I have to admit, I have never been left handed, but I don't think I could deal with shooting a reciprocating bolt on the left side. At least not with a long gun. I know you guys tend to adapt creatively, but I don't get this. Not trying to be contradictory or negative in any way, just trying to figure this out.

    If I am shooting, I do not break sling contact at all to reload and cycle the bolt. And it is "natural" for me to shoot on my right shoulder. It is more of an eye dominance question that a left-handed/right handed thing?
     
  6. ExAgoradzo

    ExAgoradzo Member

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    I seriously didn’t know this was a can of worms...

    It was gone when I got there today.

    In other news, my CCW got renewed. Miracles happen even in the PRK!

    Greg
     
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  7. MTMilitiaman

    MTMilitiaman Member

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    No, just modern doctrine is pretty strict about keeping the firing hand on its grip while you manipulate the other controls with the support hand. As a right handed shooter, to do this with AK or M1 means support hand has to reach back and run the bolt either by going over the top of the rifle or underneath it. As a left handed shooter, the charging handle being on the right side means that it is located in towards my body where it can be reached by the support hand without having to go over or under the rifle. So I can keep my firing hand on the grip and run the rifle with my support hand very easily, and because I am right handed, I have my strongest and most dexterous hand running the bolt and doing mag changes.

    When the M14 was issued, you may have been taught to keep the support hand in place and run the rifle with the shooting hand, but I don't believe this is taught anymore. And that is a big reason why a lot of lefties don't buy into the FAL--the controls are all wrong for someone trained to keep their firing hand in the firing grip.
     
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  8. maxxhavoc

    maxxhavoc Member

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    OK that makes sense I guess. It also kinda makes the bolt release position on an AR make sense...I always wondered why they put it so you have to reach over the rifle with your right hand to release the bolt.
     
  9. Reloadron
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    Reloadron Contributing Member

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    Well a little over 3 pages into things I figure the M1A rifle seems to fall into a love it or hate it class of rifle. The M1 Garand and several other rifles seem to share the love / hate thing. My first experience with the M14 rifle was June 1969 compliments of the Marine Corps. In the prone applying what I learned I was amazed at how well my stock GI rifle shot. Those days placed me in the like the rifle group. That said the rifle is not for everyone. Now if you happen to like that sort of rifle and you are willing to work with it and load for it then I strongly suggest you buy the rifle. However, since I don't know your likes and dislikes in rifles I won't suggest you buy the rifle. You need to figure that out, would be nice if you could shoot one or two and see what you think before buying a rifle you may not like.

    Now as to the right hand left hand discussion. Below is me, June '69 on the Edson Range, Camp Pendleton CA at the 500 meter line shooting prone. Yes, I am the guy shooting left handed prone Target #29.
    Qual%20Day.png

    So you decide what works for you. My M1A was a NM version and a gift from my wife about 25 years ago. Liked that rifle then and like it just as much today. I enjoy shooting it and loading for it. The same is true of my M1 Garands. Just my taste in a rifle. Do what trips your trigger and works for you.

    Ron
     
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  10. Charlie98

    Charlie98 Member

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    Naaa... just grist for a lively discussion. Really, it's just a person's specific opinion one way or another, for myriad reasons... real and imagined. The M14/M1a platform is one of those love/hate things... kind of like the AR, the Glock, the AK, and peas and carrots. People seem to forget the terrible teething problems the AR platform had when it was prematurely fielded to troops, and then issued en masse.

    The rifle in your OP might be gone... but the seed has been planted! Now... go forth and find another!
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
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  11. lionking

    lionking Member

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    I'm a left handed shooter, I wouldn't bother buying a left handed M1A or AK for that matter. BUT while I shoot a H&K 91 no problem really the charging handle does make me reach rather awkward for being a lefty. The FAL, well sort of.
     
  12. tark

    tark Member

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    Wow! Where to start! Well, how about I start with this, your words still don't explain why the first thing I was told to do when in country, was to guard my M-14 with my life or it would end up missing. I have already stated the reasons. Even as late as May, 68, the sixteens were not reliable. Not junk, but just not fully sorted out yet. The M-14 had a service life of only 8 years, if memory serves me correctly. It wasn't replaced because it " sucked," It was replaced because the Army thought it had something better, so they dived into the swimming pool without looking to see if it had any water in it! The M-14 had seen almost no combat at that time. Ask any Marine in Vietnam at the time if he was happy to have his M-14 taken away and replaced with a jam-o-matic M-16.

    I took Basic at Ft. Bliss Texas in October, 1967. There were no M-16s there only M14s. The M14s ignored the sand just worked, as long as you gave them an occasional cleaning. You would need to do the same for any rifle.

    In Germany, I was 45B20, Small Arms Repair. I saw a lot of M-14s because there weren't any M16s in Germany at the time. (At least I never saw any) We replaced springs, periodically and the occasional broken extractor or some other small part, but that's gonna happen with any weapons system. I have seen hundreds of M14s that have fired hundreds of thousands of rounds with no more than average maintenance. So don't presume to tell me I don't know what I am talking about. M-14...high maintenance? What a Joke! The M-16 is the most high maintenance military weapon I have ever seen.

    The 7.62 offers no real advantage over the 5.56 in defeating barriers....in your experience...? Really? I mean REALLY? Guess you haven't had much experience in that area. You are one of the few people I have ever heard say something that ridiculous. Yes, I would much rather have a 50 cal to " chew up a mud brick or cinder block wall." There isn't always one handy, is there? And all of you acronyms impress nobody, they make you sound like a Chairborne Ranger. Stop already, they have no relevance to the subject at hand.

    You need to realize that When I was in, 67-70, the 16 was not all that great. When You were in the Corps, the gun had been fully sorted sorted out and stands today as the finest standard issue infantry rifle in the world. Of at least, one of the best. Read again what I just said. I am no AR hater. I have one, a Bushmaster, and I love it. It has never has a single stoppage, for any reason, in over 2000 rounds fired, including 500 without cleaning. In closing, I work five days a week at the Rock Island Museum. Why do I say this? Because I get to meet a lot of veterans, of all ages and from all wars. I like to ask them is they have ever used an M14. Would they carry one into combat? Predictably the older vets say yes while the Gulf war vets either say no, or they aren't sure because they have never fired one. I run into some vets that have very bad memories of the early M-16s failing in combat.

    But I have yet to run into a vet with a bad memory about his M-14.
     
  13. Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger Member

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    Yeah I have experience as a USMC infantryman in Iraq. Mud brick, cinder blocks, or concrete block structures are just as resistant to 7.62 NATO as they are to 5.56 NATO for all practical purposes. A well built structure of those materials is a pain in the butt to significantly penetrate even with a .50 BMG. Against light skinned vehicles there might be a slight advantage for 7.62 NATO, but for the most part fluid loss is what immobilizes them, and 5.56 does just fine at busting up radiators and hoses. Neither one are going to unzip an engine block. Again .50 BMG is a better antidote.

    There are plenty of recent vets who have plenty of bad things to say about M14’s who have been engaged in over a decade of combat operations if they’re lifers. So they have a lot more experience due to being an all volunteer force than the vast majority of the Vietnam era or Cold War era guys, particularly in the small arms utilization department. The consensus is that the M14 is garbage. It’s too heavy. It’s too cumbersome. It’s not durable in the maintaining accuracy department, and it does poorly in sandy/dusty environments.
     
  14. bfoosh006

    bfoosh006 Member

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    I love my M21, and will never sell it.

    It is fussy, certain parts "need" to be clean for it to shoot to its potential.

    My Large Frame AR's are far easier to maintain their accuracy levels.
     
  15. Mike .45

    Mike .45 Member

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    M1A's are cool. They are a great prescription for AR overload. It isn't as accurate as my AR10 but it is way cooler and more fun to shoot.
     
  16. tark

    tark Member

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    For you to tell me that the M-14 does poorly in sandy environments.... Well I' m starting to wonder.... No rifle does well in a sandy environment but the M-14 handles it as well as any. I've seen it first hand, where hundreds of M-14s in my training battalion at Ft. Bliss rarely ever malfunctioned... even in a sand storm. Do you think I haven't talked to "recent Vets" that have used the M-14 in the Gulf wars? Haven't found one yet who didn't like his and wish the Army had never gotten rid of them.

    It is painfully obvious from your posts that you just have a hatred for the M-14 and no amount of reason or logic or truth will change your mind. Fine. this is America, where you have the right to your opinion. Go ahead and revel in your hatred.

    At least you stopped throwing out those silly acronyms. And yes, I know what an AT-4 is, a Swedish 84mm unguided anti-tank missile. It has a maximum range of 500 meters and carries 440 grams of RDX in its warhead. It is a shaped charge weapon relying on the Monroe Principle to achieve penetration in armor. I don't expect you to understand that last sentence. The AT-4 is a one shot disposable system, much like the old 66mm LAW system used when I was in the service.It costs $1480 a shot, is manufactured by Saab Bofors Dynamics. It is the most widely used anti-tank weapon in the world.

    The SMAW is a Shoulder launched Multi Purpose Assault Weapon. It is a re-loadable weapons system. It costs $13,000 a shot and is manufactured by Nammo Tally, formerly Tally Weapons Systems. It has an extreme range of 1800 Meters and is primarily a bunker busting weapon. It can fire High Explosive Dual Purpose rounds, as well as High Explosive Anti Armor rounds. The former are effective to 250 meters, the latter, 500 meters. Reytheon Missile systems worked with Nammo Talley to develop the S.M.A.W. II which is in use today. The S.M.A.W II can be fired in a relatively enclosed space without excessive back blast.

    Is this a great country or what ?

    Have a good day, my friend. We can agree to disagree:D
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  17. Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger Member

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    Oh I’m pretty familiar with shaped charges, rockets, and missiles of the anti-tank variety. I’ve even made my own shaped charges in training, although the effectiveness of field expedient shaped charges compared to a factory made charge is marginal. Nothing silly about the acronyms as you put it, just what the things are called. I have fond memories of shooting the SMAW, not so much the AT4 (it kind of sucks, the sights are nearly useless), and shot more than a few utterly pathetic Dragon rounds as well. Never got to shoot a live Javelin, too expensive and never had occasion to need to fire a $75K round at a lightly armored target.

    For the record I’ve owned 2 M1A’s made by Springfield Armory. Both of them were disappointing, the second one in particular was not reliable even after being worked on by Springfield. So definitely no love for that rifle. Really aggravating to have it come open at the trigger guard during rapid fire during an NRA service rifle match and not go back together. Send it off, get it back and have it do the same once again.
     
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  18. tark

    tark Member

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    Ahhh, now you are talking about experiences that I have heard repeated many times. The M-1As of Springfield Armory. ( The Geneseo bunch, not the real SA in Mass ) Their rifles are not the same as a real M-14 made by the government, and we can agree that many of their M-1As "sucked " because they did. I am old and tired and it is way past my bedtime. We will talk at one another in the morning, my friend. I think we have found something we can agree on. !!

    BTW I worked at the Geneseo S A for two years in the early 90s before I bailed and went to work for Les Baer.

    I have stories to tell about the place....
     
  19. RecoilRob

    RecoilRob Member

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    A good design poorly executed does not incriminate the design as being bad....the fault lies with the construction and I think we all agree that there are 'good' M1A's and 'not so good' ones. A 'good' one is a Joy while a 'not so good' one disappointing to say the least.

    And let's all remember that the rifle is just one of the tools in the toolbox and none will be ideal for any/every job. Compare it to a heavy hammer: Is it as portable as a light one? No. Is is more cumbersome? Yes. Would the lighter hammer work better for most light work? Yes...of course. Framing a house with a sledge hammer would suck Royally...but it could be done, whereas the light hammer just cannot drive a large spike no matter how long you sit there hitting it.

    For many jobs the caliber doesn't matter much at all but there ARE situations where if you were dropped into the mess with the choice of 5.56 or 7.62 you'd choose the latter just because it would work better. This doesn't mean that either 'sucks', just choose the better tool for the problem at hand.:)
     
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  20. silvermane_1

    silvermane_1 Member

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    Well i do own a Ruger Mini-14 though.
     
  21. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    Highly unlikely that any of us contributing to this discussion are going into battle with our battle rifles, (or any other rifles for that matter) anytime soon.
     
  22. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    Now you have gone and hurt my feelings. :(
    I was a Anti Armor Section Leader in the Sandbox. I took out a BMP at 800 meters with a Dragon, in combat. The crew of that BMP had no complaints about the effectiveness of the Dragon.;)

    Lets remember that the environment is different in most wars. Vietnam didn't have brick and mud wall huts. Most of the fighting was not done in the city's, and the 7.62x51 did a much better job of going through things.
    The sandbox was different. Armored vehicles, brick walls and mud walls, thank God for rockets and missiles.
    Each weapon has had it's moment it time where it was the best, or ran with the big dogs, Well, there were a few that did suck in their time, but no one really talks about them.
    But lets get real. We're not talking about what gun, or caliber is better for combat. We're talking about a rifle that will most likely see a lot of range time and some hunting.
    Hell, If I only bought guns for combat, I wouldn't have so many.
     
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  23. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    Although, you do have enough to outfit the army of a small South American country
     
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  24. Reloadron
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    Reloadron Contributing Member

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    Pretty sure my perimeter is secure and I doubt they'll hit it anytime soon. The Greater Cleveland, Ohio suburbs are quiet.

    I agree with the Gunny and my last rifles for combat were issued to me. Having trained with the M 14 and by the time I got to Vietnam was issued an M 16 I had nothing to really compare the M 14 to other than an M1 Garand. I saw the M 14 as a large improvement over the Garand. My M 16 functioned and obviously was much lighter along with lighter ammunition making for an easier to carry rifle. Anyway, today I really don't go shopping for a combat rifle as I don't see any combat roles in my immediate future. However, should an unknown enemy try to overrun my position I have a few rifles to choose from. Now if I could just get a few Grenades and Claymores I would be in good shape.

    Ron
     
  25. Charlie98

    Charlie98 Member

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    So is an M2 .50cal... but sometimes it's what you need. Part of the problem is using the wrong tool for the job at hand... the M14, even something like a Socom16, is not really a doorkicker's dream weapon. Further, with all the junk everyone seems to want to put on them, including the EBR versions, makes them even heavier.

    I was issued and carried the M16A1 when I was in. After I got out, I bought a Colt H-Bar -A1... very similar to what I had in the service. It felt right, it shot well, and occasionally it would bring a nostalgic tear to my eye. I built my first AR carbine some years ago... lighter, handier, and killing off all those paper targets and clay pigeons... just as effective as my old -A1, for sure. Now I pick up my old H-Bar... and think... It’s too heavy. It’s too cumbersome. Everything is relative. Carrying an M14 on patrol... it probably seems pretty heavy after a while, but given the right circumstance (engaging targets at rifle ranges) it ain't heavy, he's my brother.
     
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