M2 Ball Yaw?

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

toledo

Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Messages
75
Thinking of taking my garand on an audad hunt. Im finding very little info online about the terminal performance of m2 ball. Should I be able to expect this projectile to yaw inside a large animal like a 300lb ram or big boar? Any known gel test or military testing?
 
Personally, I'd load an SP hunting bullet to M1 Grand pressure, or just buy something like this:

steinelammo.com

M1 Garand M2 Ball 30-06 150gr Hunting Load

steinelammo.com steinelammo.com

There was a study of 5.56 effectiveness down in 2008 that at least compared one 7.62 load geared towards CQB distances and came to the conclusion that 5.56 was just as effective due to the stronger bullet construction of the 7.62 that didn't fragment VS. 5.56 that most often did.

1. No commercially available alternatives perform measurably better than existing ammunition at close quarters battle ranges for exposed frontal targets. Based on current analysis through the static/dynamic framework, all of the rounds assessed performed http://wstiac.alionscience.com The WSTIAC Quarterly, Volume 8, Number 1 5
Figure 3. System Effectiveness for Studied Rounds (Source: PM MAS)
similarly at the ranges of 0-50 meters. Though there might be differences for a single given shot, the tradeoffs of delivery accuracy, penetration, fragmentation and wound damage behavior, and speed and efficiency of energy deposit all serve to render differences between rounds minimal. The following chart (Figure 3)
shows the rounds of interest plotted together.
The specific values of the chart are not meaningful; what is meaningful is the fact that all of the rounds act in the same band of performance. Interestingly,
the one 7.62mm round that received the full evaluation, the M80 fired from the M14 rifle, performed in the same band of performance, which would indicate that for M80 ammunition at least there appears to be no benefit to the larger caliber at close quarters range.
Click to expand...


But I've not seen anything recently.
 
toledo said:
Thinking of taking my garand on an audad hunt. Im finding very little info online about the terminal performance of m2 ball. Should I be able to expect this projectile to yaw inside a large animal like a 300lb ram or big boar? Any known gel test or military testing?
Click to expand...
Yaw reduces greatly with lack of velocity, don't even roll the dice, get expanding loads.
 
Like as not, performance would be like the big Nosler solids of old, just much, much skinnier.

Audad are not easy beasts to hunt. Ranges are likely gong to be long, and you are asking a lot of iron sights to pick out just the one in the cover. And, like as not, you will have a lot of ground to cover to find one, and a Garand is not a light rifle to carry over hill and dale casually.

As above, a handload to Garand op-rod velocities with a JSP or Barnes-X projectile up around 165gr would be my first pick instead of M2 Ball. Maybe, only maybe, M2 Match with the 172gr FMJGT (not easy to find ammo) might work. But, that just brings us back around to spotting a ram in cover, and probably significantly up or down a hill from where you are when you spot him. Meaning some complicated hold overs on that aperture rear sight (that you probably do not want to stop and click in the hold overs).

Now, I've seen it done with a 1903A3, but the shooter was of those outstanding shots (and was using a proven hunting solid.

Dunno, Your Mileage May Vary.
 
While I am in no way condoning using FMJ for hunting….

I believe German DAG and MEN used a 7.62 bullet that was intended to yaw and break upon impact.
 
I sold my Garand because I didn't think of it as a practical hunting rifle. I would never use a FMJ bullet for hunting.
 
toledo said:
Any known gel test or military testing?
Click to expand...
In answer to this - Yes, there is ballistic gel testing of the M2 ball bullet.

I does not yaw to any great extent*, and takes a long time to do so, and even when it does yaw, the bullet does not break-up, even at very high velocity...

____________________
* Almost all bullets yaw on impact to some degree.
 
M2 and M80 were designed to penetrate concealment and light cover beyond 300yds Also thin vehicles like autos, pickups (technicals), and wound even with ricochets. But NOT match accurate. 3-4moa is the standard, more like 6moa from a rack grade M1.
For the limited amount you will shoot, a standard cup and core 150or 165gr (my choice) such as PPU (Monarch brand) Federal PowerShok, Hornady WhiteTail or Deer Season, or Remington Corlokts is my choice in factory loaded ammo.
My go-to deer load is the Hornady or Speer 150gr over 48.0gr of H4895 or 50gr of IMR4064 or Varget. These are Garand safe loads @2,800fps.
I would use most anything BUT milspec FMJ on Aodad. I’m told they aren’t fit to eat anyhow. My Elk load would be great, but isn’t Garand safe. (165gr @3,000fps from my Colt LtRifle aka UltraLtRifle.
 
Go to page 35 of this link: http://thinlineweapons.com/IWBA/2001-Vol5No2.pdf

Figure 21 shows the wound profile of a 150gr .30 caliber FMJ bullet. I would expect the 150gr M2 FMJ to exhibit similar terminal performance - yawing between 8-16 inches after penetration, despite M2's lower 2500 fps velocity.

Whereas, Figure 14 on page 33 shows the wound profile for a 150gr softpoint bullet at nearly the same velocity as shown Figure 21.
 
toledo said:
Thinking of taking my garand on an audad hunt. Im finding very little info online about the terminal performance of m2 ball. Should I be able to expect this projectile to yaw inside a large animal like a 300lb ram or big boar? Any known gel test or military testing?
Click to expand...

Just grab ANY commercially loaded 150 gr. SP. The difference in trajectory at typical hunting ranges would be minimal.
35W
 
toledo said:
Thinking of taking my garand on an audad hunt. Im finding very little info online about the terminal performance of m2 ball. Should I be able to expect this projectile to yaw inside a large animal like a 300lb ram or big boar? Any known gel test or military testing?
Click to expand...
Stick with a good 150gr/165gr Soft Point load.
 
Riomouse911 said:
If I may ask, why bring a Garand for a sheep hunt?

Just wondering, that’s all. :D

Stay safe.
Click to expand...
Some might say why not? Especially if you are a crazy person and have a suppressor that you can use with it..... I guess depending on how far away the sheep are you might want a magnified optic...
 
Shawn Dodson said:
Go to page 35 of this link: http://thinlineweapons.com/IWBA/2001-Vol5No2.pdf

Figure 21 shows the wound profile of a 150gr .30 caliber FMJ bullet. I would expect the 150gr M2 FMJ to exhibit similar terminal performance - yawing between 8-16 inches after penetration, despite M2's lower 2500 fps velocity.

Whereas, Figure 14 on page 33 shows the wound profile for a 150gr softpoint bullet at nearly the same velocity as shown Figure 21.
Click to expand...
Interesting reading on page 37 of that link about the 7.62 x 39 cartridge. The "safer bullets" crowd made the round more fatal by forcing the removal of the steel core.
Thanks for posting the link. That is good information that you rarely get to see.
 
35 Whelen said:
Just grab ANY commercially loaded 150 gr. SP. The difference in trajectory at typical hunting ranges would be minimal.
35W
Click to expand...
You cannot shoot any commercially loaded ammo in a garand as you will bend the op rod as it has a different pressure curve than the military ball ammo it was designed to shoot. Either reload a hunting style projectile to military ball ammo specs or buy an adjustable gas plug.
 
Com 45acp said:
You cannot shoot any commercially loaded ammo in a garand as you will bend the op rod as it has a different pressure curve than the military ball ammo it was designed to shoot. Either reload a hunting style projectile to military ball ammo specs or buy an adjustable gas plug.
Click to expand...

Sure you can. As per the CMP-


Dear CMP Family,

The CMP advises to not use .30/06 ammunition in M1 Garands, 1903s, and 1903A3s that is loaded beyond 50,000 CUP and has a bullet weight more than 172-174gr.

50,000 CUP is the SAAMI maximum average pressure limit for 30-06 ammunition (Pg. 17). So stick with commercially loaded ammunition under 172 gr., and you're good.

35W
 
35 Whelen said:
Sure you can. As per the CMP-


Dear CMP Family,

The CMP advises to not use .30/06 ammunition in M1 Garands, 1903s, and 1903A3s that is loaded beyond 50,000 CUP and has a bullet weight more than 172-174gr.

50,000 CUP is the SAAMI maximum average pressure limit for 30-06 ammunition (Pg. 17). So stick with commercially loaded ammunition under 172 gr., and you're good.

35W
Click to expand...
Has that been your experience ?Been there and done it much ? Is that how you roll ? Just wondering.
 
Show Me said:
Has that been your experience ?Been there and done it much ? Is that how you roll ? Just wondering.
Click to expand...

I got my Garand from the CMP (DCM at that time)when they were $400 and have only fired my handloads through it. I have however competed with it in High Power firing handloads, and have competed with other using non-handloads. One of my competitors used LC National Match ammunition (173 gr. bullet) and another fired an entire 80 round match with Federal American Eagle 150 gr. commercial ammunition. No bent op rods in either case.

I hope you know how I roll now. ;)

35W
 
If you are a reloader, you can load soft point or hollow point bullets to the same levels as FMJ bullets for your Garand., They will work well on game and not be detrimental to your rifle.

With today's powders, factory 30-06 ammunition is loaded to get higher velocities as in the past due to improvements in the powder. With a gas limiting plug in the Garand, you can use safely use your Garand. Using good hunting bullets with powders designed for the Garand (IMR4895, H4895, Varget, and some others in this range).

There are some devices on the market that control the pressures in the gas system of the Garand such as the Shuster(sp?) plug.

Garands have good, safe actions, but the gas system is the weak limit and not capable of handling the port pressures developed for modern 30-06 ammunition.

Enjoy your hunt with your Garand but prepared for it with care to protect her with care.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

B
  • Locked
Good info on the 7.62x39
Replies
11
Views
6K
trinydex
T
J
  • Locked
reconsidering 5.56mm
2 3
Replies
73
Views
5K
Ignition Override
I
L
  • Locked
M-16/M-4 Bullet Lethality
2
Replies
25
Views
2K
C-grunt
C-grunt
D.B. Cooper
  • Locked
Trying to load M2 Ball for M1 Rifle
2 3
Replies
52
Views
6K
Dudedog
Dudedog
G
  • Locked
How well do heavy, hard bullets at low velocity penetrate?
Replies
17
Views
8K
Double Naught Spy
Double Naught Spy
Back
Top