M44 for Bear Defense?

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I'd spend the money on a shotgun.

None of the m44s or M38 I have will shoot much better than minute of bear head at 50 yards. They are interesting curiosities and fun to make noise with, but I wouldn't bet my life on a mosin carbine.
 
My friends an idiot. I knew that a long time ago. I told him to hunt a bear with a 45-70. HE wants a thrill and is going to hunt one bow. His "guide" is actually a relative who has a liscense? if ones needed. As I said I don't know jack about big bears. The largest I've ever seen was a black bear on a camping trip in West Virginia. I was younger and with my uncle, he saw the bear on the other side of a creek and ran back, and got his rifle(45-70) I followed him and saw it running off through the trees. My uncle was afraid of bears so we relocated.
 
stevelyn said:
You've supplied the missing info. Alaska law requires non-residents hunting brown bear or mt goats to hire a guide.
A guide would have a back up gun to protect their client regardless of what they were shooting.
+1 one on the 30 minute wait. I've known several guys that have arrowed bears up here and even in cases where the kill took place on open tundra or tree stand and visual contact wasn't lost they still remained on stand for 20-30 minutes before approaching.

As for your friend's guide, no sane person in the business of looking out for their client's safety on a hunt would be using a muzzleloader in-line or otherwise as a back up weapon.
How much research did you friend do on guide services when he was planning his hunt?
Does he have references?
What is the cost compared to other guide services?
How and where does he advertise?
Where is he hunting?
What services is the guide providing as part of the package for the hunt?
Is he registered as a guide or assistant guide in the State of Alaska?
If so, which master guide is he affiliated with?
Is the master guide okay with the practices?

I don't know about you, but the little cop voice in my head tells me there is something not quite right about this guide or his operation. :scrutiny:
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His guide is a relative who is registered or liscensed and is helping my friend for free(they used to be close friends when they younger). My friend spent his money on tags, liscenses, a new bow, clothing, camp gear, and hiring a private plane/pilot. I may have been a little liberal in calling him a friend as he's more of an aquantence( I refer to him as a friend simply because its quicker and I can't spell aquantence worht a damn) , so he won't give dollar figures.
 
cracked butt said:
I'd spend the money on a shotgun.

None of the m44s or M38 I have will shoot much better than minute of bear head at 50 yards. They are interesting curiosities and fun to make noise with, but I wouldn't bet my life on a mosin carbine.
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The Polish M-44's are often very accurate. Mine gives solid 2" groups at 75 yards. Shotguns are fine, but *ONLY* if you load with the hottest slug Brenneke slug you can find. That means a whole lotta recoil, and no better accuracy than a Mosin carbine.

From the sound of it, your friend should start with black bear locally rather than trying to go after a brownie with a bow. It can be done, but it's like taking on a Class 5 rapid or Denali on your first trip out. Difficult to pull off, and plenty of risks if you don't manage it.
 
M.E.Eldridge said:
I may have been a little liberal in calling him a friend as he's more of an aquantence( I refer to him as a friend simply because its quicker and I can't spell aquantence worht a damn) , so he won't give dollar figures.
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Smart thing disassociating like that. :D I hope for his sake he never sees a single bear.

I.G.B.

BTW, my previous reply was not meant as a flame or to imply the M44 isn't enough, but that the mentallity of Bears being the same as people as being a dangerous approach to hunting.
 
got some good info out of a Ruger Alaskan review

I always thought a rifle or shotgun would work better as defence against a bear. The thought behind the Alaskan is that a lot of hunters who have been mauled said they could not get their long gun into action because the bear was right on top of them. Keeping that in mind I think I would choose a good 44 magnum or 45 Colt handgun over the M44. This is not a flame of the M44, I'm hoping to post some pictures of my M38 scout rifle here soon.
 
I would also consider the weapons ability to stand up to rain as hunting bear in Alaska can be a very wet experience depending on where he is going (southwest for example), most use stainless/synthetic rifles as a result. It's worth mentioning that 30-06 is considered the very low end for hunting brown bear in Alaska.

IMHO the 12 gauge with heavy slugs is the best selection in his price range and I'd give it a good rub down with a rust resistant synthetic lube like Corrosion X. I third the recommendation to stand off for a good amount of time before approaching from the rear weapon trained on the animal. I have no doubt that when he is walking up on this creature, he will be very happy he has a large bore shotgun. It is a humbling experience.
 
dm1333 said:
I always thought a rifle or shotgun would work better as defence against a bear. The thought behind the Alaskan is that a lot of hunters who have been mauled said they could not get their long gun into action because the bear was right on top of them. Keeping that in mind I think I would choose a good 44 magnum or 45 Colt handgun over the M44. This is not a flame of the M44, I'm hoping to post some pictures of my M38 scout rifle here soon.
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Again, easy $10 answer:

quickrelease.jpg

From that configuration, the rifle comes up faster than any handgun this side of Bob Munden's special. It's not a bad idea to keep a .357 or .44 backup, but the rifle or slug gun should always be the first choice for bear.
 
I hope your friend has a great time. I would suggest that your friend call the guide or the company that employs the guide before he puts his faith in whatever backup firearm the guide may be carrying.

My father went on a grizzly bear hunt in Alaska some time ago. I asked him recently what gun he brought and what the guide carried. My dad brought a Remington 700 in 300 Win. Mag and the guide carried some manner of lever action in 30-30. Now Alaskan natives know best, but the 30-30 does not seem like an ideal last-ditch round to stop a ticked off grizzly bear. Thankfully it was not needed.

If money is really tight, I think a M44 Nagant is a good idea. At close range it is kind of a two-fold attack. One, you have the projectile; Two, you have the fireball. If all that fails, well you gave it your best shot and the bear can use the bayonet as a toothpick.
 
None of the m44s or M38 I have will shoot much better than minute of bear head at 50 yards. They are interesting curiosities and fun to make noise with, but I wouldn't bet my life on a mosin carbine.
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You're either buying garbage Nagants or just shooting behind your back, because every Mosin Nagant I have ever encountered has been a quality rifle capable of remarkable accuracy.


I think using a Nagant as a last ditch rifle on a bow hunt wouldn't be too bad of an idea, bit your friend should spend some serious time at the range getting used to the rifle, the bolt, and the strong recoil.

Also, our friend should keep the bayonet on to poke the "experianced guide" in the @ss for using a muzzle loader as a bear protection weapon. He's either an idiot or filled to the brin with machismo.
 
Hunting bear with a bow, using a relative as a guide who only has an in-line muzzleloader. Not wanting to "break the budget" of $160 left because he doesn't apparently think his life is worth it...

Sounds like 2006's top candidate for the Darwin Awards.

The solution is really simple. Mossberg 500 with 8 shot magazine -- $200 if you look around. 10 rounds of 12 ga slugs - $10. Can't believe he wouldn't want to "break his budget" by less than $50 to have real protection.
 
The m44 is not ideal so if you are going to use it, know that. Get that action slicked up, and that chamber polished. Use good ammo, and practice snap shots and bolt manipulation. Also discuss what to do with your "guide" in the event of an attack. Its your life-remember that.
Upon thinking about this, perhaps the SKS has a few merits. You can get off 5 shots for the mosins one, and it could be operated one handed better than any other longarm mentioned here, say if a bear is upon you. Of course at that point you are in a bad place, and perhaps no gun can help. Those 150 gr soft points would be the most appropirate ammo.
In any case I wish your friend luck in Alaska.
 
The SKS is a suitable replacement for a HANDGUN for bear defense. It is not in any way equal to a Mosin-Nagant or other full power rifle. Also, if you get a quality matching Mosin or a Finn in the first place, there will be no need to slick up the bolt or other extreme measures. None of my Mosins ever stick.
 
I never had trouble with sticking on my mosin with surplus ammo. I only had that problem with some soft point ammo I bought. I guess I will look at the chamber a little harder.
 
The Grand Inquisitor said:
I think using a Nagant as a last ditch rifle on a bow hunt wouldn't be too bad of an idea, bit your friend should spend some serious time at the range getting used to the rifle, the bolt, and the strong recoil.
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I agree. I had a Finnish Mosin years ago, and it was amazingly accurate. Sold it, but now have an M44 and love it. With the bayonet on, it was shooting way to the left, but took it off, and now it's dead center and a few inches high at 50 yards, but groups at that range are just a hair over an inch. It is a very handy and hardy rifle. The action is smooth, the trigger is light with zero creep. With enough practice and using the right loads, at close range it would make an excellent last ditch brown bear defense gun in my opinion.

At anything close to point blank range, it will be hitting like a .300 magnum would at 100 yards, which is plenty of gun to quickly put down even a huge brown bear, assuming a properly placed shot.

I don't know what all the negativity is about on this thread. Maybe they are all jealous that someone is getting to go to Alaska for a brown bear hunt.
 
I think they are just showing some conern and being rightfully at odds with the idea of going the cheap route for something that could be potentially dangerous. I would rather have a big bore levergun or shotgun myself. I can work those actions without thinking. I don't know if I could say that with a bolt for me at least. Each to his own I guess.

If you could aford it or wait for it, I would prefer a CMP rack grade Garand over a bolt gun, but then their are all sorts of other options for just a little more money.
 
A more pressing question for me at the moment--what gun for New Years Eve in Spenard :eek: I can already hear the drunken cries and it's only six thirty.

Edit--And there went three handgun rounds somewhere near hear! We're gonna rock and roll!!

I can't complain too much, though. THe last two new years out in the sticks I celebrated by shooting down frozen snags with a SAR-1. There's nothing like frozen wood flying all over, then the crack as the beast comes down.
 
Hey Cosmoline

The idea behind the Alaskan was that when the bear is sitting on your chest mauling you, then you haul it out and try to put all 6 rounds into a spot where it might save you. :what: I carry a Glock 27 here in northern California so that when a cougar is chomping on me I might be able to do the same thing. I do like the sling though.
 
If you'll really carry the brick-like revolver on you, then go for it. I find a .357 loaded with 200 grain hardcasts a lot more practical as a backup weapon. I've found the SRH's to be more annoying as trail pieces than a full size rifle. They weigh you down and make so much noise and recoil it's almost impossible not to flinch.
 
If the M44 was good enough to use as NAZI protection I'm pretty shure it'll be dependable enough for bear medicine. As for a revolver vs rifle I'd take even an old 30-30 over ANY handgun, The reason is that you can shoot an attacking animal BEFORE it's close enough to be munching on your face. A big plus in my book.
 
krochus said:
If the M44 was good enough to use as NAZI protection I'm pretty shure it'll be dependable enough for bear medicine. As for a revolver vs rifle I'd take even an old 30-30 over ANY handgun, The reason is that you can shoot an attacking animal BEFORE it's close enough to be munching on your face. A big plus in my book.
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Besides that, a .30-30 with 170 grainers delivers more energy to the target than a .454 Casull, and more than likely penetrates farther.
 
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