Magnum Buckshot vs. regular Buckshot

[shephard19]

How much actual "takedown" power does magnum buckshot(three inch) specificaly 12 Gauge buckshot give over regular buckshot(2, 3/4 inch)? The second question is do you think the extra punch is worth it in regards to the extra recoil and lower capacity in pump shotguns and auto shotguns?

 

[Al LaVodka]

The magnums have considerably more hit probability with increased number of pellets, i.e. 12 or 15 vs. 9 in 00 Buck. These may be travelling near the regular shells' velocity and if so offer considerably more energy. As the individual pellets continue to do what they do you can see the overall impact, play on words intended, may be 1/3rd to about 1/2 more effective. I'll stop at that level of detail here.

Worth it? If you need one-shot stops, are within the optimal range (combination of choke for 70-75% of the shot to be within a 30" circle and are using a shot-size that is adequate for the distance to target and the target itself) and you are a reasonably accurate shot, you should not need the magnum and don't want the added recoil. If you need what the magnum offers, and can handle it, little else will or should suffice.

Some shotguns, like the Mossberg 500, don't care which American cartridge you load as it will typically load five of either 2 3/4" or 3" of these origin magnum shells. There are also 2 3/4" magnums available.

Typically I would avoid magnums, not trade down capacity for higher-power loads, I'd well know what a regular round offers and work within its parameters, but know what I can do with a magnum and perhaps have some on hand for those potential occassions I might want or need to exploit them (i.e. larger/more-resiliant game and/or longer distances).

Al

 

[76shuvlinoff]

I guess if I were actually testing it I'd try (at HD distances) two rapid shots with a magnum load and two rapid shots with a 2 3/4 load and compare how I did in regards to accuracy and elapsed time. I kinda doubt at hallway lengths there's a sufficient gain going with a magnum load but we're all built and wired different.

For me 2 3/4 loads hit back hard enough.

Edit: For some reason I thought the was purely HD related, my mistake.

 

[tt600]

try some of the winchester 3.5" supremes. 15 pellets at 1450 fps.
Report back on how they kick.

 

[hardluk1]

As far as powder charge goes a magnum is a magnum. Never under stood the standard or reduced loads. Both Mags have the same charge just less shot in the 2 3/4" load compaired to the 3". Problem is you now have to find the best load for your gun and if your shooting a full chock the kill range can be very impressive or very bad just by changeing chock, brands and load. Most 1 and 4 buck will shoot better from a full or modified choke and 0 and 00 will shoot better from a cylinder and improved bore. Forget 000, most don't shoot this stuff well enough to pattern. Now if you are willing to spend enough time at the bench you can find your guns favorite load! Most people that own shotguns are not going to spend the time to find what shoots best, just pick some leo load or what ever there buddy shots and stop there. When it comes time to really use that shotgun or any gun you more than likely will not feel the shot.

 

[Nautilus]

try some of the winchester 3.5" supremes. 15 pellets at 1450 fps.
Report back on how they kick.

Those things are pretty brutal...

 

[DougW]

Standard buck: OUCH!!!!!!!!..........SHHHHEEEEeeeee........

Magnum buck: .....................#@$*!"*$&^@!................................

That is why God influenced someone to make Reduced Recoil Slugs and 00 Buck (which is ALL that I use now).

 

[WVMountainBoy]

I have a bunch of 3" 000 buck that a buddy gave me, its in a to-go bag under the bed...I've never touched one off. Guess maybe I should take about 20 of them and see how the 870 likes them.

 

[Fred Fuller]

No LE agencies I know of issue 3" magnum buckshot. The US military doesn't either, that I'm aware of anyway. If you're looking to take down bears, better use a good hard slug, like a Brenneke or Dixie and forget about buckshot completely.

fwiw,

lpl

 

[cbrgator]

3" kicks pretty hard. I have a few rounds lying around but they are for messing around at the range. I'd rather 2 3/4 for HD where I know I can keep the gun on target.

 

[tactikel]

IMHO it really depends on what you want to "knock down". A Coyote at 55 yards or an intruder at 5 yards are different stories! For game (limited shots under controlled conditions) I use a Mossy 835 3.5" mag (It kicks like a MULE). For HD buy a 3" 12ga and after much patterning with different brands and buckshot (3" and 2 3/4") you will know which load you are "fastest and bestest" with.

 

[76shuvlinoff]

I've got a fouled up shooting shoulder from a poor choice made on a motorcycle some 7 years ago. Regular 2 3/4 buck and slugs out of my 870 give me plenty enough to think about.

I'm pretty sure one of the things 3" buck would take down would be me.

 

[jdonovan]

How much actual "takedown" power does magnum buckshot(three inch) specificaly 12 Gauge buckshot give over regular buckshot(2, 3/4 inch)?

It varies. There is no standard definition of magnum, so you have to do your home work. Look at pellet count and velocity to figure out the energy. Brand X 2 3/4 may have more energy than brand y's 3".

The second question is do you think the extra punch is worth it in regards to the extra recoil and lower capacity in pump shotguns and auto shotguns?

Unless we are talking about a gun holding 7+ shells loading 2-3/4 vs 3 should not change your total round count.

The extra punch is always worth it, but only if you can shoot it well, and your shotgun will produce a reasonable pattern with the load.

Bad guys are never 'too dead' but there can be bad results if they are 'under dead' and still in a position to cause you or your family harm.

You are going to need to buy a bunch of different loads, and try them out. See what patterns well and at what ranges.

Is their anyone else in the home who might need to use them? Just because you can handle a 3-1/2" magnum slug at 2000 FPS doesn't mean the wife or kid can. You may have to adjust your load choice based on the users abilities to shoot it and practice often enough to say comfortable with its use.

 

[SnakeLogan]

My favorite round is 2.75 inch 12 pellet 00 buck. I can load my shotgun to full capacity that way but still have 3 more pellets (which means more likely to hit the CNS) per pull of the trigger than with regular 2.75 inch 9 pellet 00 buck.

 

[CajunBass]

I've shot a bunch of deer with 3" magnun No. 1 buck. I've shot one with 2 3/4" magnun No. 1 buck.

They were all dead.

 

[627PCFan]

2.75 Buckshot is for when life and limb is on the line.
3 - 3.5 buck is for rare hunting situations and the S*** and giggle factor
When 2.75 buck isnt enough go slug or 45-70

 

[hamourkiller]

Standard 2 3/4" Buck Shot

#1 = 15 pellets x .30 caliber

#0 = 12 pellets x .32 caliber

#00 = 9 Pellets x .33 Caliber

Magnum 2 3/4" Buck Shot

#1 = 20 Pellets x .30 Caliber

#00 = 12 Pellets x .33 Caliber

3" Magnum Buck Shot

#1 = 24 Pellets x .30 Caliber

#00 = 15 Pellets x .33 Caliber

From these numbers it is easy to see that a 2 3/4" riot gun is best off with 2 3/4" magnum #1 buck shot. 7 shots x 20 = 140 .30 caliber pellets down range. 8 shot riot guns = 160 pellets down range.

A 3" riot gun with the 3" #1 load will send 144 pellets with 6 shots and 168 pellets with 7 shots.

I see no advantage to shoot less pellets once the pellets are of a size to get the job done. #4 does not penetrate well enough for me and 00 does not have the numbers I want. So I like the magnum #1 loads in 2 3/4 or 3" for defensive purposes.

In a choked gun, the pattern tells all. If you have a dense pattern of 00 vs a spread pattern of #1 well I want the denser pattern. So let the pattern tell you for a deer hunting gun. For home defense I like # 1 in any generic riotgun with a cylinder bore.

These are my preferences and not meant to insult any one who's experiences have driven them to another conclusion. It is like what is the best .357 mag load for defense question. Answere is what ever is in the gun when you need it, the .357 has no bad defensive loads! Same for buckshot at home defense ranges! They are all good if you hit what you aim at.

 

[bigmike45]

hamourkiller,

Thanks for the great information. I just picked up a Winchester 1300 Defender and I have always used 00Buck.....because That is what was typically used in a tactical shotgun. Your post has given me something to think about!!!

bigmike45

 

[jdonovan]

I'm a big fan of #1 buck as well, but most of the major ammo loaders seem to favor #4 and #00. There is a bit of #000, and very few #1 shells in the catalog among major ammunition manufactures, so while many people like the ballistics and performance there are much fewer loads to choose from.

 

[Al LaVodka]

I occasionally read shtuff about magnums just having more pellets than regular shells. And its as though its a given and everyone understands it. But its simply not true. If shooting didn't convince you maybe a little physics will. I'll use some data from Federal's Powershock #00 Buck rounds.

First some common sense. If I throw nine bricks at you at a given speed they have a certain amount of energy in them. Right? If, instead of nine I throw 15 at almost the same speed, isn't it obvious there's a lot more energy there? Yup, I have to work alot harder to throw 15 instead of nine. Let's see if its worth it...


Energy = 1/2 mass times velocity squared
or
E = 0.5mv*v

00 Buck equals 53.8 grs. per pellet.


A standard 2.75" Buckshot load has nine pellets (1.11 ozs. total weight) and they have a velocity of 1325 fps from the muzzle.
.5 x (53.8 x 9) x (1325 x 1325) = 425,036,813

A 3" Buckshot load has 15 pellets (1.84 ozs.) and they fly at 1210 fps.
.5 x (53.8 x 15) x (1210 x 1210) = 590,764,350

590,764,350 / 425,036,813 = 139


This demonstrates that the 3" Mag has 39% more energy in this particular example of Federal 3" magnum ammo over their regular load. I have not translated these into foot-pounds of energy. Federal's Powershot 2.75" "magnum," which has 12 pellets at 1290 fps, has 26% more energy. Intuitively this makes some sense...

33% more pellets, 33% more weight (1.48 ozs.) only they are going a little slower so not quite 1/3rd additional energy. The 15 pellet, 1425 fps, 3 1/2" Win. magnum load mentioned in an earlier post is 100% more, or twice as, powerful as a standard load -- on a personal note I'm never shooting one of those. You may have realized that a little velocity goes a long way, energy-wise. That's why we can never go faster than the speed of light, but that's a subject for another day and forum...

It is ultimately energy on target that stops it. Just counting pellets is not particulalrly useful, at least not without an understanding of the energy involved; in fact it is a red herring! It also helps to understand the performance of shot at various ranges and upon targets.

Ever hear that for every action there is an opoosite and equal re-action? Don't you feel more recoil from a magnum!? You'd have to deal with that which I wouldn't typically recommend, but regardless, they are actually more powerful.

I am a proponent of Buckshot smaller than 00 Buck by the way.

Al

 

[reckless carolinian]

"Bad guys are never 'too dead' but there can be bad results if they are 'under dead' "

I absolutely love this line.