Making converts

Status
Not open for further replies.

courtgreene

Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
1,541
Location
NC
I hear quite often in here that the best thing to do with anti-gun persons is to take them shooting. In most cases the hope is that being guided out of their ignorance by a (assumed) safe and knowledgeable shooter will overcome all previously held biases transforming them from gun grabbers to shooters if not punting them straight past mere shooters and into gun ownership.
Having recently gone through that journey with a friend (I was the taker, who took him shooting), here are a few pointers.

1: as should be obvious, a person’s openness and relationship with you are most important here. Someone may go through the motions just to shut you up but not be willing to actually see the world into which you are immersing them. Also, they have to know you well enough to be willing to ask themselves, “what about this activity would appeal to someone I otherwise respect but disagree with on this subject?”
2: have a goal that they wish to accomplish. In my case it was hunting. He is into nature and not a fan of the industrialized food process, knew I opted out of that for my family’s meat supply, and wanted to learn what goes into turning animals to dinner from start to finish. That goal is the only reason he ever got near a gun. His desire to accomplish it, not my desire to change his mind, is what kept him engaged in the activities related to it including learning to shoot.
3: be willing to spend. I wanted him to do this, and it cost me over a hundred rounds. Luckily a lot of components were given to me shortly before this so I was only out powder. Still, it was worth it to me. If he had to find and buy loaded ammo, during panic/pandemic scarcity, that would be another reason to quit.
4: realize that gun acceptance is on a spectrum. He is now a gun owner, but still looks down on those who own what he thinks are assault rifles (except me for some reason, I guess because he knows me enough to know I’m a pacifist). We justify things in our minds however we need to do so. In his mind, he owns one rifle, it is for putting food on the table, and that is okay… but others have different reasons which may or may not be okay. We all do this to some degree. Not necessarily with guns. We may think less of “converting,” and instead look at it as sharing time with people because we are decent human beings.
5: have a plan. Many think blasting away is fun, but it seems pointless to many. We rarely stick to things that are pointless. My strategy was to show him a good group (shot by me) and challenge him to work toward that. At whatever range he can do that is his hunting distance. He practiced until he did so at fifty yards. The point is that he kept practicing which kept him shooting (and even wanting to shoot).

In my case, he shot a deer at about twenty yards on opening day with a borrowed rifle, and then promptly went home and made an offer on the rifle because it felt good to accomplish a goal. Put differently, a strategy based on working toward something paid off well. Use this or don’t accordingly.
 
30 years ago…

The editor of our local newspaper wrote an anti-gun editorial. I contacted him and offered to take him shooting at a nearby range supervised by state conservation department employees. Surprisingly, he accepted. After a brief safety lecture in the administration building, I took him to our assigned lane, where he punched holes at short range with 22 LR and .38 Special revolvers. He shot decent groups.

He told me on the drive back to town that he felt nauseous when I opened the gun case. “ But I’m proud I was courageous enough to shoot,” he said.

“There was courage both ways today,” I replied. He frowned and looked at me quizzically. “I don’t really know you, but I handed you a loaded gun,” I said.

There was not much conversation after that. We never spoke again. He was transferred to a different city a year later.

But he never wrote another anti-gun editorial to my knowledge.
 
We are all ambassadors. For me, with a spouse in a medical profession, populated by lots of folks with lots of education and, let's just say, a more liberal political orientation, I'd go parties full of medical professionals (many who seemed to have spouses either on university faculty or who were attorneys); I wouldn't readily disclose my occupation until well into conversation (or a few drinks). Being able to carry on intelligent conversation, it seemed often people I met were surprised that I made a living using and teaching firearms. It's amazing that when you don't start off with political rhetoric, don't wear a party affiliation on your sleeve, quote stupid dogma ("Come and take them") or reference liberals and the "Communist News Network" how folks will actually show some interest in what you have to say, and maybe even what you do for a living. I've had some husbands of ladies my wife worked with ask me to teach their wives to shoot... and some of these folks ended up gun owners, with two couples we knew ending up being very frequent recreational shooters. Found out one of my orthopedic surgeons and my dentist are dedicated shooters.

My point is this: our community is very adept at turning off, and turning away, potential converts to gun-ownership and pro-gun positions. We say stupid stuff. We repeat silly mantras. We want to berate others with our political beliefs and trot out "What part of 'shall not be infringed' " etc., etc.

Invite people shooting. Make it safe, make it fun.

On the other hand, I'd been trying to convert a younger sister (PETA-member, Vegan, socialist-leaning Chicagoan) for more'n 30 years. No joy. Then she got car-jacked at gunpoint in her apartment complex parking lot. She called me right away with a bunch of questions.

As J-Bar notes, sometimes you can make inroads with staff on your local news papers or news stations. I've done it. Start with the younger ones... "Hey, do you play any video games?" You'd be surprised how many liberal J-school grads might want real-life experience with the same weapons they employ in their favorite video games.
 
Off the top of my head I have only done one "anti" but have done quite a few who did not understand what the big deal was, or had believed just what the "news" had told them. Think assault weapons and all that jazz, and thought just what the "news" had programmed them to think.

The one real hard core "anti" was someone on other forums where OT is allowed would be the target of much of the off topic banter. Female, gay, looks more of a man then I do, womans rights all the way around.....on and on.

Story time:

She came out knowing I was a gun nut and she was thinking about getting one as she felt things are getting a little crazy. This was at the height of the crazy when guns started flying off the shelf about a year or so ago. She had not bought a gun yet and was basically clueless. She only wanted to do hand guns so we started with the 22 and worked our way up. At the start I was very careful not to "mansplain" things to her, those stereotypes go both ways. And finally I talked to her like any other human I have talked to. I did step on her toes a few times for safety issues, but all in all she did great. She came out about every weekend and finally she bought a little 38 revolver. I did talk her into other things as well, including the AR, it was something I really wanted to get her to shoot. She came away thinking it is very fun and rewarding to ding steel, and was really happy she did it, but still felt there is no need for 30 rounds in a magazine. I have been working on getting her to a PPC match but so far have not done it yet, the real hold back is she is gay and VERY "butch". I tell her that the people there only care about two things, you are safe, then you have fun, that is it. She is still afraid, and more so because of what the media has told her. I also think there is some of that....well I was lied to about what these gun people are, what else have they lied to me about.

The second "not a gun person" was a recent amputee. She lost her leg just at the knee. Real pretty girl (lucky the wife trusts me with these women, first one not an issue, but this one is a real cutie but young) she is 30, and was really in the dumps for obvious reasons. We went out back and did some bench shooting. I had to fight her just getting back there...I can't go I can't walk, and I replied, I have had 5 back surgeries I know all about that, we will ride back...back and forth....finally I won, and likely like the poster said to shut me up. Now she is kinda thin, and was very athletic before her accident. You would look at her and say WOW, she is a hottie. And we did the same thing, started with the lead sled, and dinging steel, then worked up to off a bag. Got the dualing tree out, and had some fun, I got accused of "letting her win" no way, she did very well. (in my own defense I was off hand to make it more even) I did smoke her when I sat down. We moved to the AR as well, and some of the larger older guns that her dad and grandfather had. We had a great time. At the end she asked if the range in Lees summit was able to accomadate someone with only one meat leg. Sure I said. We have done a 22, and 38 rifle thing quite a bit....one reason I am looking at that 77-357 from ruger.

I have told the stories about the neighbor and the boys wife to be in other threads so will not re hash them here.
 
I've taken new people shooting, always at my expense, with the hope of gaining new shooters. I started an attorney friend off in NY. He now owns several handguns, was determined enough to go through the rigorous permitting nonsense in a county adjacent to NYC.

Currently, if you take someone new out, be sure to not immediately mention the price and availability of ammo and guns, that would probably turn me off at this point.
 
I have found it easiest to really convert people by just letting it happen vs making a sales pitch.

Having ranges available at home and our farm allow casual conversations turn into casual shooting sessions. I generally start out with something quiet, almost non existent recoil, accurate and very easy to use safely.

Many people have negative or indifferent feelings about firearms because the only exposure to them, they ever had, gave them negative feelings. I just try and make the opposite.

When they can’t wipe the grin off their face, talking about it. You got them. Good job.
 
Being for or against gun ownership has almost nothing to do with shooting. A person can be a shooter and yet believe that people, especially other people, should not own guns. Conversely, there is a surprisingly large number of gun owners who never shoot their guns.

I don't believe that "taking someone shooting" is a productive strategy. It may just make that person into a more informed antigunner.
 
I have always been willing to work with anyone who shows interest in firearms. I especially love to work with those who do not. I am at about a 90% rate of converting the non-gun folks. I had the opportunity to act as range master for a friend who was a CHL Instructor. We generally had classes of 10+ students. I went through all the rules and regulation both in the classroom and on the range, even for those "seasoned" shooters.I always made it a point to bring along several guns of my own in case there was a mechanical problem that I could not quickly repair. It also helped a lot of the female students that simply did not have the "correct gun" for their size or capabilities. One I'll never forget was a 75year old lady, 100lbs soaking wet with very small wrists and hands. He husband sent her with the only gun he had, a S&W Model 29 with a 8 3/8" barrel. She could barely pick up the gun much less try to shoot and hold onto it. I offered to let her use my Wife's Walther PK-380. It was the perfect size for her hands as it has a small grip and shoots the .380 with very little recoil. After all was over she tried to buy it from me, and of course I could not sell it. I did however take her to my LGS where they had one on the shelf and three boxes of the same ammo. This lady finally admitted to me that she was a non-gun type of person, but realized that with her husbands failing health, she was no longer relying on him to protect her. We became good friends and would run into each other from time to time at the gun range. She, like my wife, has become very proficient with that gun and has thanked me many time for my patience and guidance that helped her to get over the fear and mis-understanding of firearms. She wanted to carry the gun IWB so I helped her to choose a custom holster that would fit her size and frame. We also found her a CCW carry purse when she can't carry IWB. She carries every day and everywhere it is legal. I actually put on a gun handling/education class for 5 of her friends about a year ago.
 
I've never worked with an anti-gun person, but I have successfully converted a neutral. He even gets on this site from time to time now.
 
I have found it easiest to really convert people by just letting it happen vs making a sales pitch.

Having ranges available at home and our farm allow casual conversations turn into casual shooting sessions. I generally start out with something quiet, almost non existent recoil, accurate and very easy to use safely.

Many people have negative or indifferent feelings about firearms because the only exposure to them, they ever had, gave them negative feelings. I just try and make the opposite.

When they can’t wipe the grin off their face, talking about it. You got them. Good job.

Yes you can't be a sales person or push your views on them....I don't have a good way to say it, and that is still a miss. You need to show them why you think this is fun, and what is enjoyable to you about this. In my story the first girl is very mechanical, and like me she liked seeing the inside of the gun and how they worked. The machine aspect of the gun was just cool to her. Then showing her complex things like a model 8 you could really see the lightbulb go on as to why these gun nutz are the way they are.
 
Conversely, there is a surprisingly large number of gun owners who never shoot their guns.

I don't believe that "taking someone shooting" is a productive strategy. It may just make that person into a more informed antigunner.

I think there are more “don’t own one, haven’t shot one, don’t have strong feelings either way” folks. Than gun owners that never shoot. I don’t think knowledge is a bad thing no matter who you are or what you believe.

Think about all the ignorant kids that have accidents when they do come across one vs. kids that were taught what to do, in order, when a gun is around them.
 
It may not even be possible to be "neutral" on guns. The mistake is in thinking that guns are a cut-and-dried issue. What we think of as "neutral" is probably a nuanced stance somewhere in the middle. For example, a lot of people think of guns as a zero-sum game. That is, they feel stronger and more secure if they have a gun, but you don't. On the surface, such people may be classed as antigunners, but they're not antigunners when it comes to themselves. This may be seen as hypocritical, but it makes perfect sense when seen through the lens of their own values and assumptions.

We can see this clearly in regard to the "background check" issue. Why is there such a high percentage of gun owners that are apparently OK with "universal" background checks? It's simple -- they have their gun(s), and therefore "background checks" won't affect them. What's more, "background checks" may inhibit others from getting guns, and thereby make the guns the current owners have more valuable and powerful.

The antidote to this would be solidarity among all gun owners, and an attitude shift to see gun rights collectively. This won't happen, because individualism is too ingrained in the American mentality.

This is why I said that "taking someone shooting" is unlikely to turn him into a gun rights advocate. Most likely, it will just be another person who now has a gun, and the devil take the hindmost.
 
Hint if you're taking a lady out shooting.

Make sure they wear earplugs under the earmuffs.

The hair and I guess earrings can leave openings for the shock wave. First time out, she complained about ears ringing and I suddenly got a rush of brains to the head and finally figured out why the muffs weren't working.

Duh.

Stupid Man.
 
Last edited:
Most Antis haven't taken this stance on deeply reasoned philosophical grounds, they are Antis out of fear- and 9/10ths of fear is ignorance.
Remove the ignorance through education, demonstration, and participation and you remove the fear.

Ive done this with family and coworkers who leaned Antigun and without exception they are all now of the opinion that gun are just tools and not to be feared. A few are now gun owners and progressing as shooters. This doesn't mean they are now magically Libertarian or hinge their votes on gun rights, but I wouldn't call any of them Antigun any more.
 
It may not even be possible to be "neutral" on guns. The mistake is in thinking that guns are a cut-and-dried issue. What we think of as "neutral" is probably a nuanced stance somewhere in the middle.

I think I am “neutral” on things I don’t know enough about to form an opinion on.

Those are the people I am talking about “converting”. Not staunch antigun people. If I can’t have a reasonable conversation with someone, I probably wouldn’t be around them long enough anyway.
 
Hint if you're taking a lady out shooting.
Recommend that they bring a second t-shirt with a crew neck, too.

Rather than get into the weedy details before hand, suggest it's for the weather, or to keep gun oil or the like off her.

But having a crew neck available will help prevent "issues" with hot brass finding a v-neck top.

Not a horrible idea to recommend bringing extra hair control "bits" (scrunchies, bands or the like) "for the wind."

Sensible shoes are often the hardest sell.

With those things to hand, she can decide which ones will best suit the situation. The key is letting it be her choice, so all you need do is to convince about taking the "extra" stuff along.

Some of that applies to "he's" too. Penny loafers will find a muddy patch the way toddlers will find puppies. Open "shoes" will discover every hard stand, every hot bit of brass, and every nearby fire ant . . .
 
Hint if you're taking a lady out shooting.

Make sure they wear earplugs under the earmuffs.

The hair and I guess earrings can leave openings for the shock wave. First time out, she complained about ears ringing and I suddenly got a rush of brains to the head and finally figured out why the muffs weren't working.

Duh.

Stupid Man.

The way they wear their hair can also be an issue, I had never thought about it. You can't wear muffs if you have a big wad of hair on top of your head. I have a set of those orange ears plugs in my bag.
 
Recommend that they bring a second t-shirt with a crew neck, too.

Rather than get into the weedy details before hand, suggest it's for the weather, or to keep gun oil or the like off her.

But having a crew neck available will help prevent "issues" with hot brass finding a v-neck top.

Not a horrible idea to recommend bringing extra hair control "bits" (scrunchies, bands or the like) "for the wind."

Sensible shoes are often the hardest sell.

With those things to hand, she can decide which ones will best suit the situation. The key is letting it be her choice, so all you need do is to convince about taking the "extra" stuff along.

Some of that applies to "he's" too. Penny loafers will find a muddy patch the way toddlers will find puppies. Open "shoes" will discover every hard stand, every hot bit of brass, and every nearby fire ant . . .

Yup hot brass even 22 brass down the chest is not a fun thing....has happened to the wife several times.
 
Recommend that they bring a second t-shirt with a crew neck, too.

Rather than get into the weedy details before hand, suggest it's for the weather, or to keep gun oil or the like off her.

But having a crew neck available will help prevent "issues" with hot brass finding a v-neck top.

Not a horrible idea to recommend bringing extra hair control "bits" (scrunchies, bands or the like) "for the wind."

Sensible shoes are often the hardest sell.

With those things to hand, she can decide which ones will best suit the situation. The key is letting it be her choice, so all you need do is to convince about taking the "extra" stuff along.

Some of that applies to "he's" too. Penny loafers will find a muddy patch the way toddlers will find puppies. Open "shoes" will discover every hard stand, every hot bit of brass, and every nearby fire ant . . .
My oldest daughter proudly wears a hot brass scar on her chest.......but yes, she does cover up more tightly on range day now.:)

Just about any brass coming out of a semi-auto is gunna be pretty hot. Ive had freshly fired .30-06 come out of a bolt action after a second or two and be close to ambient.
 
My oldest daughter proudly wears a hot brass scar on her chest.......but yes, she does cover up more tightly on range day now.:)

Just about any brass coming out of a semi-auto is gunna be pretty hot. Ive had freshly fired .30-06 come out of a bolt action after a second or two and be close to ambient.

I tend to be a brass goblin, so I will eject slow so I can grab them, I don't think I would call it hot, but I don't want to hold it long.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top