Cuff him first, come up with a reason to arrest 45 minutes later?
Now that's some great police work.
Now that's some great police work.
Man Not Guilty in Open Carry Gun Case
- Thread starter Dain Bramage
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Can someone explain why it was necessary to have several cops draw guns on him at the arrest? Was he a threat?
of course hes a threat. anyone who isnt a cop and has a firearm is, obviously, a threat to the rest of society. cant have him going round and shooting people >.<
i still find it hard to believe they can get away with something like this and not have anything happen. he really should sue for their unprofessional behaviour. also, by confiscating his firearm and then not returning it when they have no reason to (even after he is released with an apology) that they would still have his handgun should constitute theft. If some random guy had walked up and 'arrested'him, and taken his gun, that would be a full range of trespassing, theft, etc
i still find it hard to believe they can get away with something like this and not have anything happen. he really should sue for their unprofessional behaviour. also, by confiscating his firearm and then not returning it when they have no reason to (even after he is released with an apology) that they would still have his handgun should constitute theft. If some random guy had walked up and 'arrested'him, and taken his gun, that would be a full range of trespassing, theft, etc
This is wonderful news...I don't know if I have the courage to open carry back home yet.
My home town Watertown, WI has the following ordinance:
11.32 DISCHARGING AND CARRYING WEAPONS.
(1) No person except in the exercise of lawful authority shall fire or discharge any firearm, spring or air gun of any description within the City or have any firearm, spring or air gun in his possession or under his control unless it is unloaded and knocked down or enclosed within a carrying case or other suitable container.
Also I talked to the former DA in Jefferson County and he said he'd charge someone with DC if they were open carrying.
Don't think either would stick, but I don't really feel like spending several thousand for a lawyer either.
My home town Watertown, WI has the following ordinance:
11.32 DISCHARGING AND CARRYING WEAPONS.
(1) No person except in the exercise of lawful authority shall fire or discharge any firearm, spring or air gun of any description within the City or have any firearm, spring or air gun in his possession or under his control unless it is unloaded and knocked down or enclosed within a carrying case or other suitable container.
Also I talked to the former DA in Jefferson County and he said he'd charge someone with DC if they were open carrying.
Don't think either would stick, but I don't really feel like spending several thousand for a lawyer either.
Deanimator
Member
Try that excuse when you carry concealed into an Ohio restaurant with a by the drink liquor license, or don't inform an officer you're carrying when he pulls you over.
Cops don't need to know every law. They need to know every law they're enforcing RIGHT NOW.
If you're a cop and you don't know the law, ask a grownup or look it up. Don't guess. Don't make something up. If you falsely arrest me, my lawyer's going to bend you over your squad car. And don't waste my time with:
"There are too many laws to know!"
"It's a hard, dangerous job!"
"What about my family???"
False arrest is a crime and a civil tort, just like domestic violence. I'm not interested in a wife beater's hard luck story. I'm not interested in an incompetent or malicious cop's.
Excuses for police misconduct and incompetence are getting to be as tiresome and repetitive as Nigerian "404" scams.
Where is the ACLU on this.. I would have expected to see them jumping in to protect this mans civil rights... "caugh"..
A badge, a gun, and a high school diploma don't make you a good American.
Glad the guy was found not guilty.
Glad the guy was found not guilty.
First, even though this case was handling wrong from the cops to the DA, there is no excuse to use this as a catch-all to bash the CJ system and cops. The system is imperfect but it is still the best one out there, period. Unless you have a way to offer remedy to a situation that involves experience then kindly go back to watching Nash Bridges.
I'll try to make this as third-grade as possible so you don't get confused.
1) Of course the cops are worried about evidence and preservation/chain of custody, THAT"S THEIR JOB. If you think for one second that they are more worried about that than the public safety, you obviously know jack about what is involved or the considerations made. Cops do more things for the sake of public safety than you can fathom.
2) Since you know all of the ins-and-outs of serving a high-risk warrant, then please share with us your personnal knowledge of how the safest way to perform a warrant on a dangerous and armed felon should go. We're not talking about preservation of evidence, we're talking about the safest possible way to apprehend an already wanted felon who is considered armed/dangerous/violent. The safest for all the officers involved AND the felon and the other occupants and the neighbors. After every situation there is an after action report/lessons learned that gets reviewed and any issues are addressed and shared with other agencies. But since you seem to know more than the several hundred thousand officers around the country, please share your experiences please, so that not a single law is violated, not a single feeling is hurt, and not a single injury occurs.
Let me guess how your theory would go:
**knock, knock** It's the police, we have a warrant for ______. Could you please come out with your hands up? We need to take you to prison for a really really long time"
**inside** "Oh yeah, sure, hold on a second" ***BOOM, BOOM, BOOM***
You can read about your theory on the evening news when they have to announce the names of the dead officers.
This second-guessing monday morning quarterback BS by people who don't know NOTHING about what is involved in this type of work is simply stupid.
And yes, this is being high-road.
I'll try to make this as third-grade as possible so you don't get confused.
1) Of course the cops are worried about evidence and preservation/chain of custody, THAT"S THEIR JOB. If you think for one second that they are more worried about that than the public safety, you obviously know jack about what is involved or the considerations made. Cops do more things for the sake of public safety than you can fathom.
2) Since you know all of the ins-and-outs of serving a high-risk warrant, then please share with us your personnal knowledge of how the safest way to perform a warrant on a dangerous and armed felon should go. We're not talking about preservation of evidence, we're talking about the safest possible way to apprehend an already wanted felon who is considered armed/dangerous/violent. The safest for all the officers involved AND the felon and the other occupants and the neighbors. After every situation there is an after action report/lessons learned that gets reviewed and any issues are addressed and shared with other agencies. But since you seem to know more than the several hundred thousand officers around the country, please share your experiences please, so that not a single law is violated, not a single feeling is hurt, and not a single injury occurs.
Let me guess how your theory would go:
**knock, knock** It's the police, we have a warrant for ______. Could you please come out with your hands up? We need to take you to prison for a really really long time"
**inside** "Oh yeah, sure, hold on a second" ***BOOM, BOOM, BOOM***
You can read about your theory on the evening news when they have to announce the names of the dead officers.
This second-guessing monday morning quarterback BS by people who don't know NOTHING about what is involved in this type of work is simply stupid.
And yes, this is being high-road.
You mean like a holster?
Back to the original case, what are the possibilities for filing *criminal* charges against the arresting officers? Cops don't care about civil charges, it's all overtime pay for them, and the taxpayers get to pick up the tab for any judgements. But the possibility of jailtime ought to get their attention (even if they are ultimately acquitted like our hero was here)
trgrhpy
I apparently missed something. You were expounding on the subject of serving a dangerous warrant to a known felon, tell me where that was the case please. I failed to read that in any of the circumstances surrounding this situation. You are trying to defend actions here by trying to make the situaion dangerous so that the officers actions are justified which any fool can see they are not.
I apparently missed something. You were expounding on the subject of serving a dangerous warrant to a known felon, tell me where that was the case please. I failed to read that in any of the circumstances surrounding this situation. You are trying to defend actions here by trying to make the situaion dangerous so that the officers actions are justified which any fool can see they are not.
There used to be a system where ALL LEO's where required to respect peoples rights in this country. The Constitution and Bill of Rights meant something. If they didn't they where punished appropriately. Lets go back to that system.
There used to be a system where ALL LEO's where required to respect peoples rights in this country. The Constitution and Bill of Rights meant something. If they didn't they where punished appropriately. Lets go back to that system.
i'm guessing you are young. because if you were cognizant to what things were once like you wouldn't be inclined to make statements that are so funny
i'm guessing you are young. because if you were cognizant to what things were once like you wouldn't be inclined to make statements that are so funny
Oh, I'm not saying there wasn't corruption with the system. But in no time in history of this country has it been so out in the open and defended. What happened to this man has become very common. This has become standard operating procedure at many police departments around the country. It's not bashing cops, it's bashing the system. The defense of such a system makes me want to puke.
But in no time in history of this country has it been so out in the open and defended.
not much of a student of history either?
for starters see sacco and vanzetti and the judge's public statements
not much of a student of history either?
for starters see sacco and vanzetti and the judge's public statements
I'm very much a student of history and modern times. I would argue you are not a student of the current political climate.
I'm very much a student of history and modern times
aparently not as much as you imagine if your gonna come off with "never in our history"
try looking at some of the governmental actions around the civil war. and right after.
hyberbole is sophmoric.
aparently not as much as you imagine if your gonna come off with "never in our history"
try looking at some of the governmental actions around the civil war. and right after.
hyberbole is sophmoric.
Ummm, wyocarp, the cops are ALSO supposed to know the law - in fact that's part of their training, both initial and ongoing. And if they don't for whatever reason (rookie, poor training, etc.), then they are supposed to call their supervisor before arresting ("Hey, here's what I've got - is there a valid charge here or not?"), and failing that, the supervisor can call his/her supervisor or the DA's office, if it's during office hours. But if they can't come up with a charge, then they're supposed to release. Here, they DID come up with a charge, which was weak, but at least semi-arguable (D.C.), but now the courts have spoken, and so from here on, the cops should not charge that ambiguously-defined charge in this situation.
I'll only make this one statement and let it die because it's off topic. If you take everything going one today I firmly believe it surpasses the civil war era problems. The police powers of the government far surpass currently of what they have ever been (partially because of the technology we have today). The Constitution is under attack like it's never been before. We are likely entering another great depression. I could go on and on but won't. Suffice it to say one man getting unjustly arrested on a firearms charge, as bad as it may be, it among the least of our problems.
We this everywhere today. Politicians do this all the time, it is almost procedure now. Hellr is another prime example of this BS. "If we cant find a law to get us what we want, we will use a different law to make it happen" That's how lawyers and politicians think today.
Congress just did it with the STIM U LUST bill.
Congress just did it with the STIM U LUST bill.
Too bad he couldn't have shot the cops. Last time I heard, having a gun drawn on you puts you in a life and death situation.
Hooray for this fellow. And yes, a one finger salute to the police state.
Hooray for this fellow. And yes, a one finger salute to the police state.
Glad He Won
I'm glad the guy won but he should at lest sue to recover the cost of defending himself. Personally I would go for more just to make a point. yes the taxpayers get stuck with the bill but large settlements tend to produce brogand maintenance on buttocks. Enough buttocks get rearrainged and things will change.
Somebody asked about the ACLU. Does anyone here know of a case where the ACLU stepped in on any RKBA case? I wasn't aware that the lefties at the ACLU included RKBA in the "Civil Liberties" they were interested in preserving.
Cy
I'm glad the guy won but he should at lest sue to recover the cost of defending himself. Personally I would go for more just to make a point. yes the taxpayers get stuck with the bill but large settlements tend to produce brogand maintenance on buttocks. Enough buttocks get rearrainged and things will change.
Somebody asked about the ACLU. Does anyone here know of a case where the ACLU stepped in on any RKBA case? I wasn't aware that the lefties at the ACLU included RKBA in the "Civil Liberties" they were interested in preserving.
Cy
If you take everything going one today I firmly believe it surpasses the civil war era problems.
yea? we have federal troops being sent to a state to vote? public officials jailed to stifle dissent? a whole county cleared of civilians their houses put to the torch?
you might wanna research what the pinkertons did. or some of the railroads and mining companies. take a look at how 2 union guys were gunned down by a sheriff and deputies outside the courthouse when they showed up for their trial.
i think you missed some history
the list goes on and on
yea? we have federal troops being sent to a state to vote? public officials jailed to stifle dissent? a whole county cleared of civilians their houses put to the torch?
you might wanna research what the pinkertons did. or some of the railroads and mining companies. take a look at how 2 union guys were gunned down by a sheriff and deputies outside the courthouse when they showed up for their trial.
i think you missed some history
the list goes on and on
Model67a said"
If you read my post carefully, the first thing that I stated was that in this case the police and the DA were wrong.
The rest of my post had to do with the unnecessary cop bashing from people who seem to think that they are jr. high school drop-outs. If you notice the quote that I posted from someone else who stated that no-knock warrant are unsafe and unnecessary, I was responding to that by pointing out that that individual and others with the same mindset are lacking functioning grey matter, or were the victims of shaken-baby-syndrom.
Perhaps instead of third-grade, I should have made it for kindergarteners and shown pictures and had a puppet show.
ravanof said:
And what time period was this in American history? I will save you the time, the answer is never. Our police have NEVER been under such a microscope and under such pressure to be perfect in the eyes of the population as they are now. Cops are constantly being videotaped and voice-recorded during every stop. Civilians record every incident they see with their i-phones. If that isn't the most intense form of quality control as it relates to our officers conduct, then I don't know what is.
As cassadrasdaddy pointed out, all you have to do is actully know a bit of history, not a lot, but a little bit to know that what you are saying is ridiculous. I will give you a time frame not too far back in history and you tell me if you thing times are worse now....THE PROHIBITION.
If you read my post carefully, the first thing that I stated was that in this case the police and the DA were wrong.
The rest of my post had to do with the unnecessary cop bashing from people who seem to think that they are jr. high school drop-outs. If you notice the quote that I posted from someone else who stated that no-knock warrant are unsafe and unnecessary, I was responding to that by pointing out that that individual and others with the same mindset are lacking functioning grey matter, or were the victims of shaken-baby-syndrom.
Perhaps instead of third-grade, I should have made it for kindergarteners and shown pictures and had a puppet show.
ravanof said:
And what time period was this in American history? I will save you the time, the answer is never. Our police have NEVER been under such a microscope and under such pressure to be perfect in the eyes of the population as they are now. Cops are constantly being videotaped and voice-recorded during every stop. Civilians record every incident they see with their i-phones. If that isn't the most intense form of quality control as it relates to our officers conduct, then I don't know what is.
As cassadrasdaddy pointed out, all you have to do is actully know a bit of history, not a lot, but a little bit to know that what you are saying is ridiculous. I will give you a time frame not too far back in history and you tell me if you thing times are worse now....THE PROHIBITION.
puppet show
I would really enjoy your puppet show. It will be about as believable as the rest of your posts. You apparently are either an x leo or current leo. stay safe
I would really enjoy your puppet show. It will be about as believable as the rest of your posts. You apparently are either an x leo or current leo. stay safe
I am neither current nor former law enforcement. I am a citizen with enough brains to know that anyone , such as yourself and other here, can sit on their butt and criticize a group of people who do a job that you don't know jack ____ about. That's about as intelligent as me trying to tell a phycisist the best way to do their job.
Wouldn't it get a little old if someone who knows nothing about your profession or hobby followed you around all day and second-guessed everything that you do?
It's baffling that someone like you can sit safely behind your computer and criticize someone who is out there trying to to make a difference. You know what, nevermind. Screw it. Let's just rid our society of all law enforcement, judges, and rest of the CJ system. Things will be much better at that point, right? I mean there won't be all of these physically abusive, rights breaking, storm-troopers out there just trying to find a way to screw you over.
After second thought, since there are so many imperfect professions out there that result in people becoming unhappy or hurt or injured, we should weed these out as well.
No more mailman, since they often are late, and some of them hoard mail which never gets delivered.
No more hospitals, since they kill more innocent people than guns do. They spread around disease to other patients in the hospital. Doctors often make mistakes that causes loss of life or limb.
Oh, and no more trash collectors. I can't tell you how many times I see filth in the street because it falls out when they come by to collect. And their trucks are very noisy and disturb me while I study. I mean, they don't have the right to keep me from my education, right?
I don't have to be a cop to recognize a blow-hard know-nothing when I come across one.
Wouldn't it get a little old if someone who knows nothing about your profession or hobby followed you around all day and second-guessed everything that you do?
It's baffling that someone like you can sit safely behind your computer and criticize someone who is out there trying to to make a difference. You know what, nevermind. Screw it. Let's just rid our society of all law enforcement, judges, and rest of the CJ system. Things will be much better at that point, right? I mean there won't be all of these physically abusive, rights breaking, storm-troopers out there just trying to find a way to screw you over.
After second thought, since there are so many imperfect professions out there that result in people becoming unhappy or hurt or injured, we should weed these out as well.
No more mailman, since they often are late, and some of them hoard mail which never gets delivered.
No more hospitals, since they kill more innocent people than guns do. They spread around disease to other patients in the hospital. Doctors often make mistakes that causes loss of life or limb.
Oh, and no more trash collectors. I can't tell you how many times I see filth in the street because it falls out when they come by to collect. And their trucks are very noisy and disturb me while I study. I mean, they don't have the right to keep me from my education, right?
I don't have to be a cop to recognize a blow-hard know-nothing when I come across one.
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