How about instead we just hold the bad ones accountable? Might also have to increase the pay for the good ones to keep 'em.
Man Not Guilty in Open Carry Gun Case
- Thread starter Dain Bramage
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experience
You have said that I have not experience as a leo and that is true, but you have carried on about my not having any experience and indicated that you do have experience, which you do not. Therefore how can you say that you are an authority and are worthy of being taken seriously? I am not going to carry on a dialogue with you as it is useless and of the sbject of this discussion. The other participants of this discussion can judge for themselves on the validity of your comments. stay safe
You have said that I have not experience as a leo and that is true, but you have carried on about my not having any experience and indicated that you do have experience, which you do not. Therefore how can you say that you are an authority and are worthy of being taken seriously? I am not going to carry on a dialogue with you as it is useless and of the sbject of this discussion. The other participants of this discussion can judge for themselves on the validity of your comments. stay safe
Deanimator
Member
When the mailman delivers to the wrong address or even steals the mail, nobody DIES.
The mailman can't use his position to violate people's civil rights for fun or profit.
The mailman can't through incompetence or malice, cost somebody their freedom.
If cops don't want to be responsible for what they do, they need to find another career.
If I assault a cop, I have no right to expect leniency. If that same cop violates my rights or assaults me, he has no more expectation of leniency, at least from me. If a cop is going to endanger my rights, my freedom or my life, I'm going to hammer him in any and every way allowed by the law. Don't like it? Don't be a screwup or a bully.
Violate my rights and I owe you nothing but the back of my hand, expressed in the civil courts.
You're right, I have no hands on experience. However, I am about to graduate with my BS in CJ. I have countless hours of speaking with DA's, sheriff dep's, officers, etc., discussing scenarios of what is/is not to be done and the things that the average person just doesn't consider because they have never been in that position and deal with the many variables. I study law and it's applications from different aspects, one of the main ones is that of a patrol officer and/or DA. So if you want to question my knowledge of appropriate conduct, I am going to know more than you with regard to what goes on out there and some of the things that have to be considered. AND, I'm not even really considering becoming an officer. I'm looking at juvenile probation.
Deanimator: I'm not picking on mailmen. My point was that if you want perfection from any profession, you're simply smoking crack.
If you didn't notice my earlier post, I stated that this case was not justifiable, and grossly inappropriate and wrong all over the place. But since a couple of people on here want to bash the entire profession because of the acts of a very very few, they damn well better be ready to go toe-to-toe and defend that position, because I won't go for it. It is wholly untrue, intellectually dishonest, and quite frankly, shows a complete lack of integrity and intellect. Somebody who knows nothing about the process of a tactical entry for protection of the officers and the civilians and yet sits there and criticizes it had better have hard hard facts from police oversite committees and officers alike who find it unsafe before they start popping off with their ignorant know-nothing opinions.
**trying to calm things down a bit.** since there seems to be idea that cops do nothing but look for ways to violate rights, why don't you volunteer for your local sheriff reserve and help them out with the extremely time consuming duties such as:
Pushing broken cars out of traffic. Slimjimming cars for people who forgot their keys in the car. Helping find a place for street people who are homeless and intoxicated. Or even just helping with traffic control when there is a house fire that burned a family out or a deadly car accident. Security and traffic control for special event like football games and concerts. Our even scouting out an area where neighbors are complaining of speeders so that you can deny or confirm for the sworn officers whether or not it is an actual threat. There are so many things that goes on.
I'll say it again: This case was wrong from the way the officers responded to the DA, absolutely no question about it. But that case is not indicative of an epidemic running rampant through the CJ system. If you want to criticize this particular case, fine, I'm with you...but leave it there.
Deanimator: I'm not picking on mailmen. My point was that if you want perfection from any profession, you're simply smoking crack.
If you didn't notice my earlier post, I stated that this case was not justifiable, and grossly inappropriate and wrong all over the place. But since a couple of people on here want to bash the entire profession because of the acts of a very very few, they damn well better be ready to go toe-to-toe and defend that position, because I won't go for it. It is wholly untrue, intellectually dishonest, and quite frankly, shows a complete lack of integrity and intellect. Somebody who knows nothing about the process of a tactical entry for protection of the officers and the civilians and yet sits there and criticizes it had better have hard hard facts from police oversite committees and officers alike who find it unsafe before they start popping off with their ignorant know-nothing opinions.
**trying to calm things down a bit.** since there seems to be idea that cops do nothing but look for ways to violate rights, why don't you volunteer for your local sheriff reserve and help them out with the extremely time consuming duties such as:
Pushing broken cars out of traffic. Slimjimming cars for people who forgot their keys in the car. Helping find a place for street people who are homeless and intoxicated. Or even just helping with traffic control when there is a house fire that burned a family out or a deadly car accident. Security and traffic control for special event like football games and concerts. Our even scouting out an area where neighbors are complaining of speeders so that you can deny or confirm for the sworn officers whether or not it is an actual threat. There are so many things that goes on.
I'll say it again: This case was wrong from the way the officers responded to the DA, absolutely no question about it. But that case is not indicative of an epidemic running rampant through the CJ system. If you want to criticize this particular case, fine, I'm with you...but leave it there.
Seminole
Member
TRGRHPY said:
Actually, perhaps instead of resorting to demeaning ad-hominem attacks, you should actually construct well-reasoned arguments.
If you want to call what I said "ad-hominem attacks" instead of defense against some of the most ignorant comments on this board to date, then feel free. And if you missed the paragraphs where I did go through and explain to them why their comments were wrong, perhaps someone could explain it to you as well since I don't really think that I can make it any more simple to understand...but I will still try.
The cops and the DA in this case were wrong.
Just because the cops and DA in this case were wrong doesn't mean that every cop and every DA is out to violate everyone's rights.
Just because one ball is red, that doesn't mean that all balls are red.
(I actually DID pull that from my kids book)
The cops and the DA in this case were wrong.
Just because the cops and DA in this case were wrong doesn't mean that every cop and every DA is out to violate everyone's rights.
Just because one ball is red, that doesn't mean that all balls are red.
(I actually DID pull that from my kids book)
Has the threat of the death penalty stopped capitol crimes? Has the threat of prison stopped crime? The answer to both is no.
Offenders should be punished, but don't kid yourself that the punishment has any deterrent value. It doesn't. Each case is individual and should be treated as such. The idea that you should deal with a violation sternly so it will set an example is childish. You deal with a violation based on the severity of the violation, no more no less. No one thinks that they will go to prison before they commit a crime..it's not a factor at all.
Absolutely! Something has to be done. I don't think that this is wide spread enough to be considered a deterrent or not, especially since nothing seems to work currently as a deterrent anyway. For deterrence to work, it has to be swift, harsh, and just, and that just doesn't happen in our system as it is today.
I don't want people to get the impression that I stand behind every officer regardless of conduct because that is just not true. If they intentionally violate rights, such as in this case, I would be willing to bet that my idea of punishment is going to be harsher than what some of these others here would consider. There is no place for intentional misconduct in the CJ system. I believe in Justice, period. And with that mindset I find more faults in the system than most probably do, but it is the system that we have. And it takes honest people who can look through the bs and make a difference. Corruption is inexcusable. The system has enough faults as is, and it doesn't need any help from officers and DA's such as the one's in this case. Because it takes an imperfect system and makes it out to be worse than it is and overshadows all of the good that is being done. And because of the overwhelming amount of good being done by our officers and other members of the system, I will not let others simply bash all of them over the grotesque acts of a very few.
IMO, the state needs to come in to that city and clean house and put a few butts in jail, and then make them available for civil suits. I have exactly NO sympathy for whatever may happen to those involved...there was just no excuse at all other than malicious intent. The criteria for a crime is there and I hope they get hammered with as much as a good DA can come up with.
I think there's a difference; criminals think they'll never get caught. Bad cops know that even if they are caught, it's no big deal because the system will protect them rather than prosecute.JW said:
The punishment needs to fit the crime; no more and no less. But when cops (and prosecutors) break the law the punishment should be dealt from the heavy end of the deck because they also violated the public trust.
XavierBreath
Member
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