Man with assault rifle joins crowds outside president's Phoenix venue

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Our job, as RKBA advocates, is to show that 99% of gun owners and carriers are NOT John Hinckley Jr. types, and in fact would probably use our guns to help STOP such an act if we could.
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I am by nature pro-gun. I don't like handgun prohibitions or similar political gestures, which do nothing to stop crime and target law-abiding citizens. But when people are openly carrying (presumably loaded) guns in urban setting, well that is going way too far for me.

If nothing else, these fellows packing heat at presidential events are splitting the pro-gun movement and forcing people like me to find common cause with the anti-gun movement. As a RKBA advocate, do you consider that to be a good thing?
 
Still no reply to the question of whether or not it is permissible to carry (open or concealed) at a political rally..

I was generally under the impression that to do so was a no-no..

comments?
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That law depends on the state. Also, I'm sure particular federal laws apply to the Executive Branch of the Federal Government.

Also, define "political rally". Where is the boundary between political rally territory and non-political rally territory? Surely, the boundary stops somewhere. Also, is this guy technically within that boundary? I don't know.
 
MisterMike said:
Not so sure about the last part of your sentence. In my lifetime, three presidents have been the target of assassination attempts--one died, one almost died, and the other escaped unharmed. The assassination of a president is a cataclysmic event that strikes at the very heart of democracy, and we should be very careful about evoking memories of those horrible acts.

I don't particularly like our current Prez, but the fact remains that the carrying of a semi-automatic rifle at a presidential event conjures up a lot of bad images and memories, even for a right-leaning gun aficianado like me.

You may not think so and many others here may agree with you, but I guarantee you, most people thinks this guy looks like a threat to the President. I'd respectfully suggest that, while we may all cherish our rights to keep and bear arms, common sense suggests that there are circumstances where openly carrying a semiautomatic rifle makes us all look like loons. This is one of them. The guy's an idiot.
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I disagree...

I think it is good that he could do and did do what he did. No one got hurt which proves the ole saw a gun is just a tool. The scary "black assault rifle" didn't jump to his shoulder and start killing and maiming people.

Get real people, the antis want your guns whether you carry them or not, but every time you carry (open or concealed) and nothing happens you show them to be the liars that they are!

JMHO
 
there is no obvious case to be made for everyone going armed to the teeth at all times.
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The only obvious case is the God given right protected by the second amendment.

What part of "shall not be infringed'' is so dadgummed hard to understand!?

rant off.

I'm out.
 
MisterMike said:
As jakemccoy noted, this is exactly the sort of stunt that invites anti-gun legislation. Now that there have been two of these incidents reported in the past couple of weeks, we will likely see legislative proposals to prohibit weapons within xxx feet of the president. From there, it's easily extended to judges, legislators, you name it. All that this clown has done is to singlehandedly jeopardize all our rights. The gains we have made are extremely fragile, and this guy is creating a giant opening for the antis.

He has accomplished nothing positive.
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Dis-agree.

He showed nothing bad happens JUST BECAUSE a gun was present. Pretty powerful IMHO.

Again, JMHO
 
But when people are openly carrying (presumably loaded) guns in urban setting, well that is going way too far for me.
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So now you're condemning the whole open carry movement? :eek: Or claiming that it only should apply to rural folks but not urban citizens? All folks are free. Some are just MORE free, eh?

Pathetic. Please don't take that as a personal attack on you. Just a condemnation of the way of thinking that you've expressed.

If nothing else, these fellows packing heat at presidential events are splitting the pro-gun movement and forcing people like me to find common cause with the anti-gun movement. As a RKBA advocate, do you consider that to be a good thing?
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Yes I certainly do! It should be forcing folks to take a good look at the logical ends of their rights. A knee-jerk 2nd amendment supporter does little good to "the cause" if his reason wavers half-way to a logical conclusion. I'd rather have a few million supporters who really understand the RIGHT to BEAR arms than ten million who sort of appreciate the privilege to own guns most of the time if it isn't politically troublesome.
Samuel Adams said:
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen".
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I think you've all missed a very distinct possibility: This man was almost certainly standing guard against trouble -- probably an Obama supporter! He didn't say. Why are so many projecting their reasoning on to his actions?

-Sam
 
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Comparing this guy's actions to those of Rosa Parks is...well...not a good comparison.
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Why?

Interestingly, in both cases the debates within the civil rights community was likely the same - the 'if we just go along they'll leave us alone' crowd arguing against the actions of the 'if we get in their face and show that we're HUMAN then they can't dehumanize us any longer' folk.

Much of the gun control of 1968 were a result of the actions of the Black Panthers and other racial tensions. That gun control was largely meant to control the blacks, but it turns out that the gun control of 1968 controls all law abiding citizens. The Black Panthers were known to show up at political events with long guns and do nothing with their long guns. They were making a silent statement that was louder than any words could make. I don't know about you, but in the grand scheme of things that someone can do with a long gun, I see the similarities between the actions of the Black Panthers and the man in this case.
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Yes, and no.

The Black Panthers were not the STATED reason the for the GCA'68 - the shootings of Robert Kennedy and MLK were. Against that backdrop, the southern Democrats had a relatively easy go of trying to keep them uppity black folk more in line. Without the shootings of two public figures, the unstated goal of keeping the minority unarmed would have never been achieved.

More to the point - given that less than twenty percent of the US was black, the marginalization of the Black Panther's message was far easier to achieve than perhaps a similar message today would be.

In the end, this seems to come down to the same points as the last thread on this - do we encourage open carry for the purposes of making a political statement, or not?
 
Not speaking to anybody in particular, unless you've actually open carried just like the guy in this case, it's really hard to believe any rallying behind this guy. It's not the NFL. You don't have to watch from the stands. You actually have the opportunity to get on the field. So, if you find yourself getting pissed and you support this guy hardcore, then go do what he did. I'll even help you track where the President is going to be.
 
Here's the other thing folks. This fellow (and the others who were carrying) at the rally are demonstrating yet another purpose of the Second Amendment- allowing the people to defend themselves against the government. This is the real deal. It is sending a very strong message to the government. Remember, the Second Amendment isn't about hunting it's about personal protection- from robbers, from rapists, and also, from the government. It is the final check in the system of checks and balances.
 
After journeying through this intellectual discussion of armed near the POTUS is a smart thing to do or not, I think it has evolved to the old discussion of open vs. concealed carry again, with a slightly different twist. Some people state they love guns, but still can't stand to see someone open carry. Strange to me.
 
I think the controversy surrounding these events will end up with more state laws banning guns at political rallies. It is illegal to carry a gun to a political event in Georgia. In states that do not have bans, all it takes is for a few people to scare enough people into thinking the bans are a good idea.

I wonder if these patriots who are carrying to rallies are actually sleepers for the anti-2A movement, who are hoping to cause enough hand wringing and despair to prompt states to adopt tougher laws.

I do not think the average person sees these things the way the average person here does.
 
A debate in on CNN right now between head of Brady and head of SAF (Alan Gottlieb).

Gottlieb doesn't agree with actions of the guy with the gun. Gottlieb is a hardcore pro-gun advocate and actively involved with defending Second Amendment rights around the country.
 
When Obama visited NH (Portsmouth) one of our citizens legaly open carried across the street from the school (private property w/permission) where the pres held his town mtg. . .the local (only) station jumped on it. . .pd there told the reporter "he did nothing illegal & stayed within the law". The there was the other shmuck who parked his truck, with a firearm in it, and tried to get in to the mtg. He was eventually arrested. Lost his truck and gun.
 
I do hope this catches on. If 50 or 100 or more legally armed folks show up at every rally and political event (that they legally can) and continue to behave themselves in such an exemplary way, it will send a message that 1,000,000 NRA automated post cards, and 10 million pleading emails never will. We can wave signs 'till the cows come home, to no avail. But those silent rifles get NOTICED. Any time you agitate for change and for your freedom, you risk upsetting others. But that's a pitiful poor reason to stop fighting.

Of course, by the time this really starts to catch on, you'll notice that Obama will (for one reason or another) just happen to only have scheduled speaking engagements in Chicago, DC, NYC, Texas (ironically) and other freedom-restricted places.

In the end, this is likely to be much ado about nothing.

-Sam
 
Debate on CNN right now between head of Brady and head of SAF (Alan Gottlieb).

Gottlieb doesn't agree with actions of guy with gun. Gottlieb is hardcore pro-gun advocate and actively involved with defending Second Amendment right around the country.
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Obviously not hardcore enough. It's not a debate if both sides disagree with the topic.
 
We'll know about laws banning carry at rallies before they pass. Believe me, they won't pass. In this current political climate, doing so would be tantamount to career suicide.

Let's look at this from an artist's perspective? Why do such an action? The answer: it makes you think. It reminds politicians that the real power lies within the hands of the people (literally and metaphorically). It reminds politicians that they cannot do whatever they please and expect everyone to take it lying down.
 
General Geoff said:
Obviously not hardcore enough. It's not a debate if both sides disagree with the topic.
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You have proven that you know nothing about Gottlieb.

I'll bet my house that he's more active for pro-gun rights than anybody on this forum.
 
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