Marking unserialized guns?

[jaytex1969]

I was just reading through the "Do you have an inventory?" thread.

I picked up an old Mossberg 20GA from the 50's recently with no serial number.

Does anyone bother to mark these, maybe a discreet stamp or engraving under the wood or something?

Seems like a good idea in respect to possible theft, unless collector value were to be diminished.

Your experiences/thoughts...

 

[Deaf Smith]

You can ask the ATF for a letter of determination to show they were legal.

But I warn you, the ATF is very very SLOW (like most of the government unless they want your tax money.)

Deaf

 

[Sam1911]

I don't think he's worried about its legality -- he knows it's legal.

He's asking what folks might do to mark it for his individual identification purposes, like in case of theft recovery and such.

I'd certainly want to do so someplace unseen, like inside the fore-stock, or under the butt plate, myself.

 

[rcmodel]

A paper note, or Sharpie pen marker under the butt-plate would be most discreet.
And least likely to be found and destroyed by a gun thief.

Also good close-up photo's of any identifying scratches or dings.

Whatever you do, don't etch your social security number, name, address & phone number on the side of the receiver or barrel with an electric engraver.

That's just wrong!!

rc

 

[Deaf Smith]

Ok, you can take the stock off and get a metal stamp (numbers 0 thru 9) and stamp your own serial number.

I'd stamp it on the inside of the tang of a lever gun, or bottom of the receiver of a bolt gun.

Deaf

 

[dprice3844444]

trophy shop can do it.needs to be on the main receiver.send letter to atf reference problem and request number to be engraved.save letter

 

[Sam1911]

trophy shop can do it.needs to be on the main receiver.send letter to atf reference problem and request number to be engraved.save letter

Again, that's not what he was asking about. Not looking to have the ATF give him an official serial number. ...If they even would do that.

Guns don't HAVE to have serial numbers. Only commercially made guns, produced after 1968 MUST have them.

He's just looking at ideas about making his own identifying marks.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

While I don't disagree with being able to positively identify a gun in case of theft, etc., I'd sure think twice about assigning it a S/N if it doesn't have one.

Many guns manufactured before the advent of GCA68 did not have a serial number. It wasn't a legal requirement. Therefore, there are literally millions of firearms "out there" for which the gummint has no record. In my mind, that's a good thing.

For instance, if you have a generic Belgium made double shotgun stolen, but you know there's a proof mark on the barrel block, and another identifier mark that's out of sight, that should be enough to provide proof of identification in the police report of what was stolen. If the thief is caught, you can claim the gun because it is identified. But as far as the Feds are concerned it's a no S/N gun & should stay that way.

900F

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Instead of a discrete mark, why not look at customizing it in a unique way?

Properly done, a custom engraving would be awesome!

Granted, this could have the effect of potentially devaluing the gun, depending on what it is and the condition it is in. But done by a craftsman experienced in the matter, it could turn out pretty cool.

 

[Rock185]

jaytex, not unusual for people to mark a gun with an "OAN"/ Owner Applied Number. You can mark it wherever and however you think appopriate. If the gun is lost or stolen, advise LE of the OAN and where, how marked. It will be entered into NCIC as an identifier and just might help you get the gun back. Guns are recovered all the time, but unfortunately many owners won't be getting them back because the owner did not report a serial number, OAN, or provide other information unique to that particular firearm when the report was made...

 

[medalguy]

The big problem here is whether you want to decrease the value of a gun by clearly marking a number on the receiver, which could be entered into NCIC if it were ever stolen, and thereby increase the likelihood of ever seeing the gun again, or whether you want to mark a gun in a hidden place where no one would ever look for it, and hold the value of the gun but make it very unlikely the police would see the number if it were recovered.

The problem is that if a thief is arrested and the police look for a number, and don't see one clearly marked on the receiver, they are not going to disassemble the gun to look for some hidden mark and will not be checking NCIC for some hidden ID marking. If they happen to recover an unusual gun in your local area, and some officer recalls your reporting a Winchester Model 94 in some obscure caliber of .34 Louie Magnum and he remembers that fact, he MIGHT call you and ask if the recovered firearm is yours. But in reality this is extremely unlikely to happen.

Most times once a firearm is stolen, it's gone for good. Does anyone have any statistics on the percentage of stolen firearms that are recovered and returned to the owners? I'll bet it's extremely low. I have had several guns stolen in the past and I've never recovered a single one. Photographs do provide proof that you own a specific gun and could be used if a firearm were to be recovered by police IF-- and that's a big IF-- you are notified about the recovery.

 

[22-rimfire]

With long guns, some place their name or initials behind the butt place. I see little reason to do this. If a gun is stolen, the chances of recovering it are nearly zip. Photographs are very good too and I feel sure that the police would turn over an old Mossie shotgun to you if you had photos. You could also document any kind of marks that are already on the gun. I refrain from putting new marks on guns.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

A paper note, or Sharpie pen marker under the butt-plate would be most discreet.
And least likely to be found and destroyed by a gun thief.

Also good close-up photo's of any identifying scratches or dings.

Whatever you do, don't etch your social security number, name, address & phone number on the side of the receiver or barrel with an electric engraver.

That's just wrong!!

rc

A friend of mine picked up a really nice pre 64 Winchester 30-30 lever action from an auction for $150 and it was in great shape. The reason he thinks he got such a deal on it was the previous owner original owner had engraved his name on it.

 

[ball3006]

I mark all my guns with a sharpie under the butt plate, and one other place......chris3

 

[slumlord44]

Probably not a bad idea to put some kind of marking in a discrete place in a manner that will not harm the value of the gun. Problem is that only serial numbers are traceable by the police. May or may not be of help in getting a stolen gun back.

 

[TRX]

A number or initials in felt tip, in a normally-hidden place, would be fine.

The local PD won't return any recovered firearms unless they can be positively identified; just because they took a 1950s-manufacture Ruger Mk1 off a dope dealer a week after you had one stolen isn't satisfactory for them. As we found out after a break-in...

Of course, it wasn't until *after* that that we made sure we had all the serial numbers written down. But we have a number of firearms with no serial numbers now, and I like the felt-tip idea a lot. It would satisfy the PD's requirement for a positive ID.

As always, photographs are also helpful. Be aware that over time (10 years or so) most magnetic media will degrade severely, and even CDs are only rated at 10 years, though they generally last much longer. I'd recommend having high quality prints made of all the digital pictures. It's cheap enough, considering why you might have cause to need them.

 

[ball3006]

Hey, ATF....I have this old gun with no serial number and wanted to let you know. ATF: Thanks, when we want you to turn it in, we will let you know.....duh......chris3

 

[Sam1911]

What? What does that have to do with anything? Please read the OP. He didn't ask ANYTHING about how to notify the ATF.

 

[CB900F]

Sam1911;

But post #2 specifically raised the subject, and post #8 alluded to it.

900F

 

[ilbob]

one of my handguns has the original owner's DL number engraved on it under the grips.

 

[Sam1911]

But post #2 specifically raised the subject, and post #8 alluded to it.

Yes, and they were also completely off topic. As I pointed out before.

 

[Balrog]

A mark on the butt plate marks the stock, not the gun.

A new stock or a little sand paper would eliminate the mark. So I don't see how its of much use.

 

[billdeserthills]

I saw a used cobra once with the prior owner's SS# stamped on the receiver with a big number stamping set, didn't even ugly up the cobra too bad either

 

[CharlieDeltaJuliet]

I have an old .22 from the thirties, no serial numbers from the factory. I always try to find a way (hidden) to be able to prove ownership. My marks, initials, or name in an area that only completely disassembled can be found.

 

[Hardtarget]

Sometimes it makes no difference how a gun is marked. My sons home was burgled. A S&W air weight .38 snub was stolen. It was actually confiscated during a drug raid three weeks (+/-) later. He received a letter one year later...called the police and was told he shouldn't have waited so long. They melted ...the day he received the letter. We don't know why the delay and neither do the police. Legal and finance sent him a check in about a month.

I know his experience is not the norm. It just shows how easy it is to not get your property back no matter how hard you try.

Mark