Marlin 1894 44 magnum vs 45 colt cast bullet accuracy

[someguy2800]

Hey guys,

I recently bought a Marlin 1895g 45-70 and I am absolutely in love with it. This got me thinking I have another gun that I'm not so in love with that I'm thinking of selling to buy an 1894. I'm just thinking ahead here, but anybody thats had one or both what has your experience been on accuracy between the 44 mag and 45 colt. I'm kind of a stickler on accuracy and have been really impressed with the accuracy I'm getting from my 45-70 with softball loads. I'm perfectly fine with the power provided by either cartridge and will be shooting exclusively handloads with 240-250 gr cast bullets. I've checked around and I don't see any real advantage in price for bullets between the two.

I understand that most 44 magnum rifles come with .431" bore barrels as opposed to the .428" bores used on most 44 magnum revolvers and as such accuracy can be pretty poor when using the commonly available .429" and .430" bullets. I had this problem with a 444 and had to source .432" sized bullets to make it shoot acceptably. I can source hard cast bullets sized to .432 for the 44 but it cuts down my bullet choices considerably. Also I want to get a S&W model 69 as a companion and I don't know if a .432" bullet would be a tight fit in the cylinder to be able to shoot the same load in both.

If I get the 45 colt the only downside I see is that if I want to get a companion gun to go with it, it would have to be a larger gun like a blackhawk.

Anybody have any experience to relay on the accuracy they got with either and what size bullets were used?

 

[Slamfire]

I have a M1894 in 44 Mag. The twist rate is too slow for any sort of accuracy with bullets over 240 grain. I have shot the thing enough to come to the conclusion that lever rifles are not tack drivers. If you get four inches for a ten shot group at 100 yards, be happy. Just ignore all the comments made by the three shot group types, three shot groups are best understood as statistical aberrations.

 

[someguy2800]

I have a M1894 in 44 Mag. The twist rate is too slow for any sort of accuracy with bullets over 240 grain. I have shot the thing enough to come to the conclusion that lever rifles are not tack drivers. If you get four inches for a ten shot group at 100 yards, be happy. Just ignore all the comments made by the three shot group types, three shot groups are best understood as statistical aberrations.

I would be okay with 4" 10 shot groups at 100. 2 or 3 inch groups and I would be elated. I'm willing to do some accurizing as well. However if its shooting 8 inches at 100 it has no place in my gun safe.

 

[MCMXI]

I have shot the thing enough to come to the conclusion that lever rifles are not tack drivers. If you get four inches for a ten shot group at 100 yards, be happy. Just ignore all the comments made by the three shot group types, three shot groups are best understood as statistical aberrations.

How about two 5-shot groups from my Marlin 1895 SBL (.45-70 Govt.) using factory Barnes VOR-TX 300gr ammunition? The bottom group was shot in 2012 and the top group in 2013.

 

[brewer12345]

I have a 70s 44 mag. I shoot open sights and mostly at the 50 yard line. With my vision that means that I don't come close to knowing what the real potential accuracy of the thing is and I really don't want to scope it if I can avoid doing so. That said, the cast bullet sizing thing can be a pain and you really only will know what bullet size you need if you slug your bore. Mine shots jacketed accurately. Cast really depends. Cast rounds are for practice and small game/predators in this rifle, so that means pretty mild loads (think 44 special in a 44 mag case). Soft lead bullets seem to obturate well and I get itty bitty groups with cowboy action type loads. I have never shot heavier loads with cast bullets in this thing, so I can't comment on how they would do.

 

[RPRNY]

Can't speak to 44 Mag, but my Marlin 1894 24" octagonal barrel 45LC is accurate, for a pistol caliber lever gun. It's about a 3" - 3.5" gun at 100 yards with cast bullets. Those are 5 shot groups. I haven't shot it much with jacketed stuff. At 50 yards, it tightens up to shooter error with iron sights. Again, since I really don't shoot much jacketed stuff with it, provided it gets fed .454" lead with plenty of lube, it seems to shoot anything well. It particularly likes a 335 gr LBT that I get from Montana Bullet Works but doesn't seem to be bullet picky and gets fed a steady diet of 200 grs Big Lubes over 26grs Old Eynsford for CAS, where accuracy isn't really an issue. My Marlin seems to have a somewhat tighter chamber than the norm which means less blow-by and sooted cases with smokeless.

 

[someguy2800]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

provided it gets fed .454" lead with plenty of lube, it seems to shoot anything well.

Did you find that there is a big gain in accuracy going from the standard .452" to .454" bullets? If I have to get custom sized bullets for the 45 colt that negates some of the appeal to me. I don't cast my own so I am at the mercy of what I can find to buy.

 

[RPRNY]

Thanks for the feedback guys.



Did you find that there is a big gain in accuracy going from the standard .452" to .454" bullets? If I have to get custom sized bullets for the 45 colt that negates some of the appeal to me. I don't cast my own so I am at the mercy of what I can find to buy.

Cast bullets need to be .002" over groove depth to fully obturate, seal, and therefore avoid leading the barrel. Most purveyors of cast bullets will offer .454" sized bullets.

With jacketed bullets, .452" work just fine in the Marlin. I have used it some with the Hornady 250 gr XTP on hogs and it's great.

 

[brewer12345]

Cast bullets need to be .002" over groove depth to fully obturate, seal, and therefore avoid leading the barrel. Most purveyors of cast bullets will offer .454" sized bullets.

With jacketed bullets, .452" work just fine in the Marlin. I have used it some with the Hornady 250 gr XTP on hogs and it's great.

Sounds about right for the 44 as well. I believe places like Missouri will make you custom sized bullets for the asking if you feel the need. I simply cheat by using softer ones.

 

[MCMXI]

Cast bullets need to be .002" over groove depth to fully obturate, seal, and therefore avoid leading the barrel.

How about gas checked cast bullets?

Montana Bullet Works offers .45 cal bullets sized from .451" to .455". They have gas checked and standard options in a number or weights and forms.

 

[RPRNY]

Based on my experience, I size .002" (as a rule of thumb - but for example, with my Marlin 30-30 microgroove, I use .311" bullets) over groove whether plain base or gas checked. Shooting cast bullets can be a bit like alchemy and lots of different folks have different approaches but there aren't too many who would suggest that cast bullets need to exceed groove depth.

 

[someguy2800]

My 444 marlin handi rifle slugged out at .431 groove, and .427 bore diameters. For that I order 300 grain LFN gas checked bullets from Montana Bullet works sized to .432 with good results. I tried .433 as well but they would not fit in the chamber throat. Great bullets but a little more expensive than I want to spend for a plinker.

There are a couple places locally that stock cast bullets from SNS Casting and Oregon Trail. The box says there 44 bullets are sized to .430 and 45's are .452". I was hoping to be able to just pick up a box locally every 6 months but if I have to I will order them custom sized.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I have a M1894 in 44 Mag. The twist rate is too slow for any sort of accuracy with bullets over 240 grain. I have shot the thing enough to come to the conclusion that lever rifles are not tack drivers. If you get four inches for a ten shot group at 100 yards, be happy. Just ignore all the comments made by the three shot group types, three shot groups are best understood as statistical aberrations.

I'm not sure it doesn't have more to do with pistol cartridges in all rifles, not just levers. I had a bolt gun that did the same thing. In ten shots I always had a flyer. I don't mean a few inches either.

 

[MEHavey]

See https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5287562&postcount=17

Unlike the 44Mag, the 45Colt Marlin is perfectly happy with heavy/store-bought cast bullets.

 

[CraigC]

My issue with the .45's is that they will universally have an oversized chamber. What this means is overworked brass and debris in your face with standard pressure loads. The slow twist is not an issue with standard loads, only with loads exceeding 300gr. While complaints abound (the internet is the world's complaint department) my two Marlin .44's have exhibited fine accuracy with standard weight/diameter bullets up to and including 300gr. My Cowboy model sees exclusively a generic .430" SWC over 10.0gr Unique for 1450fps. It shoots into an inch at 50yds. My "S" model shoots the 270gr Gold Dot into groups that make people call me a liar.

I have a M1894 in 44 Mag. The twist rate is too slow for any sort of accuracy with bullets over 240 grain. I have shot the thing enough to come to the conclusion that lever rifles are not tack drivers. If you get four inches for a ten shot group at 100 yards, be happy. Just ignore all the comments made by the three shot group types, three shot groups are best understood as statistical aberrations.

I'm sorry but this is just not true. If it were, it would be 100% universal. The 1-38" twist is not going to work in one rifle but not another. The only issue with these rifles with bullets up to and including 300gr is that the bore is sometimes oversized. With that said, I have had no issues with standard sized bullets. My "S" model shoots the 270gr Gold Dot into 3/4"@100yds and the 300gr XTP did nearly as well. My Cowboy LTD shoots a 240gr cast into 1"@50yds.

My late model Wincester 1895 .405WCF also did not get the memo that leverguns are poor shooters and does sub-MOA with the 300gr Hornady factory load as well as my 300gr Woodleigh handloads. My Uberti 1873 .38-40 shoots every load I've tried in it, from 135gr to 180gr into an inch at 50yds. My .30-30's into 1.5" at 100yds. The problem here is that one guy has aproblem with one rifle and concludes that all results will be like his. THAT is the "statistical aberration".

 

[Salmoneye]

Firing 265gr Hornady FP (.430") over near max load of H110, my 1990 dated 1894S (Micro-Groove) will cloverleaf 3 rounds at 50 yards with an old Winchester .22 peep sight...This gun does not like jacketed below .430"...Cast with this gun needs to be a minimum of .432", and .433" is more betterer...

My 2003 1894PG (Ballard) can fire .431" cast acceptably, but light loads need to be hard cast...This gun will eat any jacketed bullet .429"+ pretty well...

ADDING:

SAAMI spec for pistol and rifle in .44 Magnum are not the same as far as bore dimensions...

Groove for pistol is .429", and groove for rifle is .431"...

So Marlin bores are not 'oversized', they are to SAAMI spec...

This is the only cartridge I am aware of that has differing dimensions for pistol and rifle...

 

[dh1633pm]

I have four rifles in 45 Colt. Rossi M92, Uberti 1873, Marlin 1894, and a custom roller. The Rossi has the loose chamber and you get debris in your face. The Marlin is the most accurate with 255 Grain Bullets of the .452 variety. I don't have any targets to show, just have an easier time hitting the foot square metal target with open sights at 100 yards with the Marlin. The roller with its heavy barrel and scope is king, but it has a scope. Will be adding a Henry to the collection shortly.

 

[greyling22]

I will add to craigc's post to point out that 44mag brass seems to last a lot longer for me, though the 45 brass is more readily found on the ground (thank you Taurus judge owners). And I do hate all that gas and debris in the face from the 45.

Have you considered the 357? More companion gun options, smaller frames, plenty of punch and available bullets, though they are a lot harder to find.

 

[someguy2800]

Thanks for the input guys. I think I will probably do a 44 magnum since it sounds like both can be made to shoot acceptably and my preferred companion gun would be a 44 mag.

I am a 357 magnum fan but not really interested in a rifle. I have a ruger 357 revolver and a 357 maximum contender, both of which I really like.

 

[GooseGestapo]

If you're getting debris in the face, up your powder charge a little. I get blow by with my 24"bbl Winchester Legacy/trails end at book listed loads.
Typical 255gr cast over SAA max loads such as 7.6gr of Win231/HP38 or Universal will blow back. 8.2gr will obturate the case eliminate blow-by, and reduce case stains.

These aren't a problem in most recent production guns as SAAMI specs are about equivalent to "burrito gas" in the .45colt In deference to the 110+yr old Colts.

 

[Bushpilot]

My impression is that the 44 mag rifles usually shoot a little bit better then the 45LC. I know there are probably some 45 fans that will disagree with this but that is my experience. I'm just guessing here but I've always wondered if maybe this was because the typical 45lc, round barrel, lever action rifle usually has a thinner barrel wall thickness compared to a similar rifle in 44. With all the barrel bands, tube mag and the forearm essentially supported by the barrel this could mean that the thinner walled barrel of the 45lc is affected more by the forearm, bands etc. then the thicker 44 barrel. It's just a theory of mine. My 1969 1894 Marlin 44 mag regularly shot 2 1/2 - 3 inch 100 yard groups when I had a scope mounted on it.

 

[BigBore44]

My presafety 1894 44mag will shoot as well as Craig C's does. But my bullet choice is the Sierra 240gr JHC over 22.5gr H-110. If I swap that bullet for the 240gr Hornady XTP, my groups go to over 3". I shot cast for awhile. 240gr MBC Sledgehammer over 10.5gr Unique gave me my best accuracy at around 2.25-2.75". Not bad. Still have a lot of those and the 200gr MBC bullets left. Don't honestly know if I'll ever use them at all anymore. Maybe someday.