Marlin .45-70 for deer?

[AStone]

Nem, do you still enjoy your 870, and are you comfortable shooting it?
Do you envision having a storage/travel space for it in your future nomadic plans?

Good questions, Torpid. They've stimulated a stream of thought in this process. (Thanks.)

Second question first: Yes, at least I hope so. I have reasonable transporter options (including diesel pickup for the tow vehicle). Space is limited, but keeping the 870 is not limiting in that regard.

First question is more relevant, I think. Two components: 1) I rarely shoot the 870. (Guess that says something.) In fact, given the amount of time I've owned it, I've shot it way too few times relative to what I wanted and needed to. (It's an issue of work and time for me. I just get too little time to shoot it, and have to drive a LONG way to do so. Of course, if my post count read "1000" instead of 4100+, I'd have shot it more.

2) I think the reason I keep it is hoping to make more time, and the fact that it's just a biga bada boom, and I feel better at night knowing it's just an arms-length away. (Especially given the neighborhood I'm in at night.)

But truth be told, given my limited range time, and my goal to be very proficient with a few weapons rather than less proficient with more, these days I'm definitely putting more time and effort into my levers and wheels. While I realize and respect the great utility of shotguns, I'm resonating more now with the idea of a single projectile well positioned than several projectiles scattering into a pattern. Something in the former that just fits my philosophy of life. (Wow: There's an entire thread just in those last two sentences alone.)

And the tactics are different for the two strategies: point and scatter a pattern v. "aim" (well, point more carefully) for more accurate shot placement. My shotgun requires a different mindset than my rifles.

Finally, my eyes are getting older, I am - like most people my age ('50-something) - already experiencing some natural retinal detachment (seen as occasional flashes of light in one's visual field). That 12 ga ain't helping that any. Of course, neither would a .45-70, but: 1) I'd shoot mostly light rnds in it, and 2) in terms of minimizing jarring that can negatively affect eye health, better only 1 biga bada boom rather than two.

OK, enough thinking for now. My mind is starting to hurt. But it's useful for me to write out loud here in the presence of good minds who won't let any poor thinking slip through.

OK, I'm off to lunch, and to look at some good-sized (6-7" blade) survival knife options.

Thanks for opinions.

And ETXhiker, thanks for a GREAT thread!

 

[AStone]

<Swampwolf grabs Nem firmly by the lapel and pleads with a friend
who may be about to make a serious mistake ... >

Don't do it, Nem! Keep the 870 and wrestle up some patience for the 45-70 acquisition. At the risk of sounding very presumptuous, someday you'll thank me for this bit of advice should you follow it.

Like I said, nice to have some good rational minds around ...

 

[JohnKSa]

I am - like most people my age ('50-something) - already experiencing some natural retinal detachment (seen as occasional flashes of light in one's visual field).

Been to an ophthalmalogist lately? Probably worth the trip. Flashes of light can also be a symptom of glaucoma which is not only very treatable but also dangerous to ignore.

 

[AStone]

John, yes, I get regular checkups.

The diagnosis I offered above was not based on just my personal knowledge (although I have taught a lot of A&P classes), but the diagnosis of an ophthalmologist. This sort of thing runs in my family, so I've been monitoring my own eye health for decades.

(I left this post here rather than PM it because recoil issues - especially larger calibers and gauges - and eye health are a topic that deserves attention and occasional prodding in the community...)

 

[CZguy]

It's not rationality, it's rationalization that's at work here! A word of warning to the uninitiated: the worst "deals/decisions" you'll ever make when it comes to firearm transactions is when you rationalize giving up one gun so that you can "afford" the latest gleam in your eye. Oh, we can drudge up many reasons to dump the gun that we spent so much time debating over and researching- even setting up website clubs ( ) for.

Don't do it, Nem! Keep the 870 and wrestle up some patience for the 45-70 acquisition. At the risk of sounding very presumptuous, someday you'll thank me for this bit of advice should you follow it. Been there, done that (way too many times!).

Outstanding advice, that has been my experience as well. +1.

 

[JustsayMo]

Hmmm another brain teaser...

Nem, this is your enabler... Mo says, Remington 870's are EVERYWHERE and inexpensive (great value). Heck you probably have a half dozen friends within walking distance that would loan you one should you need to do some wingshooting, bust some clays or... Perhaps the most ubiquitous of all non-rimfire guns. Ask yourself what niche does it fill? Why own when you can borrow? <grin>

SD: inside your home the S&W will serve you well (better?) and you can practice inexpensively and frequently if you get a 22lr version. Out on the street the wheelgun wins again as you are more likely to have it with you and you can move without others knowing you're armed. Battle your way back to the long gun...

Now if you don't get a lot of handgun practice then a shotgun makes a lot of sense. Simple, reliable, effective and hits are more likely at targets inside of 30 yards.

In a SHTF scenario range is your friend and the 336 would be superior.

The 1895G would certainly be great for any armored attacker. Bears with the right ammo. Two legged aggressors would learn the difference between cover and concealment quickly...

Foraging: NO doubt the shotgun has the edge with the wide variety of ammo available and it's capable of taking quail and squirrels to big game at modest ranges. If your trigger time is limited the 870 is more user friendly too.

However, getting some inexpensive trigger time with the 39 it will improve your overal marksmanship and familiarity with your long gun platform. The 39 will cover small game including waterfowl in the unsporting fashion. It can be used with quieter subsonic ammo and draw less attention while survival poaching.

Handloads make the 336 into an even more versatile a small to medium big game meat maker. Except for loading it shares the (excellent) handling characteristics of the 39. Repetitions lead to muscle memory and skill will improve.

The GG is a deer+ game getter supreme. If I were you... I would consider getting the standard 1895 and shortening the barrel to retain the PG configuration you are comfortable with. A friend did that at the club and it turned out excellent. Marlin made and "Outfitter" around 2001 in 444 with the short barrel and pistol grip. I've not seen one except in the catalogs (want one though...). The GG is accurate enough to take headshots on smaller game if need be.

Heck, I could go on and on, but it really is simple... Get the 1895, keep the 870 if you can afford to. There is no wrong answer here regardless of staying pat or doing the ol' switcheroo.

 

[AStone]

I would consider getting the standard 1895
and shortening the barrel to retain the PG configuration you are comfortable with.

Mo, you're a genius.

In addition to all the other tasty food for thought,
(so much of which I resonate with ... we seem to live on the same page),
that recommendation just hit the spot.

I never even noticed that the standard '895 has a pistol grip.

Bingo! Cut that puppy down ... just like I plan to do with the 39.

We'll see what the financial winds bring in the next couple of months,
and whether the 870 stays or ... goes ...

 

[JustsayMo]

Another advantage of the standard is they are usually less expensive...

 

[AStone]

Which is a bit surprising considering more barrel and pistol grip.

But I'm guessing the GG is more in demand, which drives pricing ...

 

[AStone]

May 1

First hard rain
in months
is now falling
on my roof.

(Unusual for our rainy season.)

For some reason,
I'm thinking about .45-70.

Nem-870

{Biga badda boom}

It's a hard rain a-gonna fall...

 

[AStone]

Don't do it, Nem! Keep the 870 and wrestle up some patience for the 45-70 acquisition.

OK, you convinced me.

I won't (can't) sell the 870P,
but will add an '895 in .45-70.

 

[SwampWolf]

Whew!

 

[Kimber1911_06238]

300 or 405 grain bullets work great on whitetails...and you won't get the damage of magnums. give it a try

 

[tube_ee]

Nem-870...

Keep your 870, or, if shooting 12 bore is getting hard on you, trade it for a smaller-bore pump gun. Maybe an Ithaca 37 in 16 gauge? I love the 16. Or, for ease of gun and ammo finding, any one of the many 20-gauge pump guns. There are too many fun things that can only be done with a shotgun to be without one. Try pass-shooting doves with your 45-70, eh?

In the larger sense, guns are like bicycles and motorcycles. If you don't absolutely hate it, you'll regret selling it.

So... do you hate your 870?

--Shannon

 

[mustanger98]

Hey Shannon, I don't think Nem would have included 870 in his screen name if he hated it.

 

[AStone]

Try pass-shooting doves with your 45-70, eh?

You folks are funny.

And informative. Good ideas. Good advice.

Nem, at work on yet another saturday ...
(this will pay off, this will pay off ... i will be able to buy a 45-70 ...)

 

[Buckskinner]

I'll chime in with my .45-70 love story. I had one from '73 or so. Nice enough rifle. I got my dies set up, and shot a variety of bullet weights, and had fun experimenting with recoil. From a mild push (similar to blackpowder) to a real good shove (that'd be the G-G-Garrett's), you can load for and buy over the counter a wide range of .45 calber thumpers.

I sold that one, and missed it so bad, I paid through the nose to buy a '95 that had been "Alaska-ized". Meaning that it had been all Robared, and NP3'd. Had bedliner painted on the stocks. A scout mount, big loop lever, ghost ring sights, Leupold LER scope w/QR rings, hammer spur, extractor put on it.

Oooh its cool!

I have a "low center of gravity", and some of my teachers have confirmed that I am "dense" or "thick", while my wife calls me "muscular". Anyway I'm about 210, and 5'10", and she's a good woman...

There are folks on the web, like at marlinowners.com or levergunlovers.com who really push the reloading to its limits. And they have some cool ideas like:

-Loading lead round ball over a very small charge of pistol powder for a small game load.

-Loading .45-70 brass like a small shotshell.

-Rechambering the .45-70 so .410 shotgun shells will cycle.

I haven't tried any of these myself, but sure seems to expand the range of possibilities with this old cartridge...

Check out my location, and if near enough to you, PM me for a range day.

 

[AStone]

Oooh its cool!

Now, Buckskinner, do you really think that you can post
such a tantalizing description without putting up some pics?

Come on, man: where's the love?
We're gonna need at least one image.
Get your digital cam out ...

Very interesting loading information. I really like the idea of a cartridge loaded lightly for small game. I'll have to check out MoF for more details. Thanks.

Looks like you're a fer piece north of me. Unfortunately, with my work schedule right now (read no weekends off), I won't get up that far for a long time ... but thanks much for the offer. If something changes, I'll give you a shout.

Nem, who is, believe it or not, at work right now ... just taking a dinner break ...

 

[AStone]

Bumpity bump

This thread has been quiet for too long.

It's about a rifle that is too ...
interesting to stop discussing.

So I thought I'd bump it.

The 1895G has a straight grip.
I like pistol grip long guns.

Someone earlier suggested
buying an 1895 and shortening the barrel.

So, in honor of the rifle,
I downloaded an image of an 1895,
and digitally shortened it to ~19".

I swear, a rifle like that could make me
hang up the 870 ...

Keep it, maybe,
but hang it up.

.45-70.
What's in your wallet?

 

[Z_Infidel]

I too prefer pistol grip stocks, which is why if (when?) I buy a big-bore Marlin it will be the 1895 or an XLR as opposed to a Guide Gun. The idea of a shortened 1895 with either ghost ring sights or a low-power (preferably fixed) scope like Leupold's 2.5X20 ultralight is very appealing.

On the other hand, if I intended to shoot the heavy .45-70 loads at large or dangerous game on a regular basis I would probably keep the extra barrel length. Yeah, that's it -- regular length with the 2.5X scope for hunting, shortened barrel and ghost ring sights for protection.

It might also be interesting to look into what type of express sights could be installed on the 1895. Perhaps XS Express Sight rear with a Marbles front ramp and large bead for visibility? That would make for a durable, easy to see setup that points quickly and would be precise enough for shots out to at least 75 yards or so -- maybe even 100. It would probably also be very good for short-range shots on moving targets like a charging animal -- maybe better than a ghost ring even. Ghost rings are pretty quick, though -- maybe it's a tossup.

 

[stiletto raggio]

Torpid,

Who made that butt cuff? I might get one if the price isn't prohibitive.

I have had a Guide Gun for five years and I love it. I have a Weaver 2.5-8x32 EER scope on mine, mounted forward on an AO mount. It is plenty accurate and fun to shoot. I've worked up some realtively hot handloads, but never shot any Buffalo Bore.

I love the Marlin design. I am waiting to buy an 1895 Cowboy. Nine shots of 45/70: the ulitmate dangerous game rifle.

 

[arctictom]

As an addition to the 1895G I recommend the Wild West guns site kit
And perhaps their bear proof ejector ( I haven't had a factory part fail yet ).

 

[torpid]

.45-70.
What's in your wallet?

Nothing these days if you don't reload .45-70!


Levergun Leather Works made the buttstock carrier, stiletto.

 

[AStone]

I heard that. I've priced .45-70 rnds. It ain't pretty.

But I guess you gotta pay for all that power.
Kinda like a big diesel: they're thirsty beasts,
but will pull a house off its foundation.

 

[Levergun]

I shoot black powder out of my 45/70 and cast my own bullets as well as make my own lube. The cost is greatly reduced!