Marlin .45-70 for deer?

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Levergun, more details, please?

What do you mean that you shoot black powder out of your .45-70?

You're talking about a muzzle loader right?
 
What do you mean that you shoot black powder out of your .45-70?

You're talking about a muzzle loader right?
Click to expand...

Nem, The old .45-70 loads were black powder and cast lead bullet. Those were fired in Sharps, Winchester 1886 (lever) and 1885 (Highwall), Remington Rolling Block, and Springfield trapdoor.

Regarding muzzle loaders, I have a T/C .45cal Hawken and I've tried shooting it with 70grains of Pyrodex RS. It works a lot better with 50-60grains. 70-90grains just overpowers it and adds nothing to accuracy.
 
Thanks for that clarification, guys. Interesting bit history there.
(I'm becoming increasingly more interested in these rifles, and their long history ... )

Mustanger, one more question, please:

The old .45-70 loads were black powder and cast lead bullet. Those were fired in Sharps, Winchester 1886 (lever) and 1885 (Highwall), Remington Rolling Block, and Springfield trapdoor.
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Sorry for being a little dense here, but I'm still trying to understand how that was done. In those guns (especially the levers), was (is?) the black powder poured into a shell casing, then a lead bullet pushed in? Did they use any relatively more "sophisticated" tools to do that back at the ranch, or was it more of a hand load operation that could be done easily in the field?
 
still trying to understand how that was done. In those guns (especially the levers), was (is?) the black powder poured into a shell casing, then a lead bullet pushed in? Did they use any relatively more "sophisticated" tools to do that back at the ranch, or was it more of a hand load operation that could be done easily in the field?
Click to expand...

At first, they didn't have the technology to draw brass cases so they drew copper cases. Those copper cases were the problem in trapdoors... when they expanded during obturation, they didn't contract. As soon as they got the production of drawn brass cases up and running, reloads could be made at home or in the field. They did have some special tools, but it don't seem too overly complicated to me. To load black powder properly, you have to have a brass drop tube. You don't want to use any other metal because static electricity will detonate black powder. A compressed charge is required because whereas smokeless burns, BP explodes. So the bullet was pushed in to the desired length with the appropriate charge weight measured by volume and any needed cardboard spacers. Some .45-70 shooters of that time backed their charges down by 20grains depending on what their rifles shot best with. And the Army had a somewhat reduced charge issued for the carbine versions. Buffalo hunters staying out however long they did would carry the reloading kits with them... think Matthew Quigley.
 
I confess, I have a different view of it.
To each their own, of course, but ...

I don't own a house. Never will.
Don't even want to.
(Semi-nomadic suits me well ... )

But my guns are just as safe, if not more so.
(The story of how is long, and I rarely share it on line ...)

And, with no mortgage, no land taxes, and no repair bills,
I can afford the guns I want and to offer them better care and feeding.

Priorities.
It's all about priorities. ;)
 
Aaaaaaaaaah the romance of the 45-70 , I have 3 levers in 45-70 and am lusting after a single shot , for no particular reason.
 
When deer hunting up north (western/upstate NY) I used a 12 ga. shotgun with a 1oz. slug. No excessive damage.

A 400+ gr 45-70 would be about the same.
 
I am trading some leather work for an 1893 Marlin Model 94 in 38-55. I will be casting and loading it with Black powder.

Nematocyst-870
FYI, you can not shoot black powder in all 45-70 guns. The guide gun is a good example. The rifling is too fast and the powder will gum things up and you will have trouble. But on the other hand, the Marlin Cowboy 45-70 has the Ballard rifiling and you can shoot BP cartridges in them.

So now with the 38-55 coming, that will take the place of my wanted Guide gun and I can get the Cowboy instead.;)
 
Your should have both the guide gun and the cowboy , the cowboy is a sweet shooting rifle and the balance is great , I like the feel as well , I put a tang site on mine and love it .
 
Marlin switched over to the ballard style rifling on all their 45/70 rifles sometime ago (years).
 
Black Powder in Marlin GG

Hello,

Found this site while seeking some 45-70 info. In my AARp years I have reverted to my boyhood interest of cowboy lore, et al, and am more convinced that the 45-70 would be a fine addition to my collection.

I read recently that the newer Marlin Guide Guns had the Ballard type rifleing(sp) as opposed to the Micro-Groove. This is suppose to accomodate the use of BP. Just FYI
 
RollinArt be prepared, big bores are addictive.

I think all of the recent Marlin 1895 offering feature the 'Ballard' type rifling. I think that came about due to the (false) perception that Micro-groove barrels don't shoot lead well.

In my own experience I've found Micro-Groove barrels shoot lead at least as well as the Ballard versions and are easier to clean. The key is proper bullet sizing. A friend cast me some .457" bullets that out of my Ballard 1895 would keyhole if they hit paper at all at 50 yards. With .459" (up to .461") sized cast bullets the rifle is capable of cloverleaf groups. at that same distance.

I have both MG and Ballard rifles in 336. The MG barrels actually outshoot the ballard 336 CB with cast bullets and as mentioned before it is easier to clean them afterward.

I have shot Black Powder out of 1895 and I'm not sure how Ballard would make it any easier.
 
while i have yet to take a whitetail with my 45/70, i have done some bullet expansion testing. the best of the bunch that i tested was the Hornady 350g round nose. it was a PERFECT mushroom, and came back to my scale weighing 339g. also, if you are concerned about recoil, just spend 35 clams and buy a Limbsaver recoil pad, install it and forget about it. that little peice of rubber is AMAZING!
 
I too have found Hornady bullets to preform very well - both in expansion and in accuracy.

The nice thing about 45 caliber bullets is they are already "pre-expanded." Smaller projectiles do well just to achieve 45 caliber. Also, in my experience, a non-expanding 45 caliber projectile with a wide meplat will cut a hole larger than its diameter without expanding. The result is rapid exsanguination and a clean harvest.
 
also, if you are concerned about recoil, just spend 35 clams and buy a Limbsaver recoil pad, install it and forget about it. that little peice of rubber is AMAZING!
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Plus one.

I enjoy shooting my guide gun now.
 
SwampWolf, I'm curious. Why will I be sorry?

Not saying you're wrong, just curious about your logic.

For me, it's more about finding the optimal toolkit with fewer guns.

I love the .30-30, but if the .45-70 does all it'll do and more, why not?
 
Nematocyst said:
I'm probably going to sell my 336 for one of these.
Click to expand...

That's not a factory Marlin right? I have a Guide Gun (stainless) and an XLR ... if I could just get them to mate, their offspring would probably look like your photo since I have XS lever rails on both.

:)
 
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