Massive chain fire in 1851 Navy. Suggestions?

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Plenty of great advice here.
Yes, it is a brass frame. I knew the limitations when I bought it. Lots of other things to watch for that I am still learning.
And yes I used .375 balls.
I will use feeler gauge for end play and for nipple to frame distance also. Will check for cylinder imprint in frame also.
Thanks for all the suggestions. I will be safe, but don't plan to give up on this gun yet. I will be getting a new Pietta '51 Navy sometime in the future. Already have a spare cylinder for it.
 
If it were me and I had a chain fire of that magnitude, I would not waste any time or effort on finding the cause. Safety issues. Get a different gun.
 
Malachi Leviticus Blue said:
You are right. I miss read or misunderstood somehow. My lame excuse is that it was still before 6:00AM and I must have had a cylinder missing...
Click to expand...
Yeah I have that problem a lot, my new meds make coffee taste terrible, so I can't even drink it.
I didn't see anywhere in his posts (missed it?) where he said what size ball he was using, but you (m wash and carl brown) are correct 36 cal usually take 375 or 380 RB.
It's possible somebody in the past put wrong length nipples in the gun. Not recommended to file them down.
Better to contact Dixie or TOW and see what length should be used
36 caliber also usually used smaller nipples #10 or even discontinued now, #8 or 9# so if you are using #10 and are a loose fit, you need #10 nipples in the right length
 
So you probably don't want me to tell you that the big round thing is the cylinder and the holes in it are chambers, huh?

The holes in the engine block in your car are cylinders.

The holes in the cylinder of a revolver are chambers.

Unless it is a Smith and Wesson, then they are charge holes.

Sorry, couldn't help it, the school marm in me sometimes over powers me.
 
Driftwood Johnson said:
So you probably don't want me to tell you that the big round thing is the cylinder and the holes in it are chambers, huh?

The holes in the engine block in your car are cylinders.

The holes in the cylinder of a revolver are chambers.

Unless it is a Smith and Wesson, then they are charge holes.

Sorry, couldn't help it, the school marm in me sometimes over powers me.
Click to expand...
Yes, I know this. It was late and I only once referred to a chamber as a cylinder. Give me a break.
 
44 Dave said:
If something does not work right I have to know why. Even if it is used as a part gun for your own education and ours find the reason for the malfunction.
Click to expand...

Well, I appreciate all of your inputs, and understand why Bullslinger says to chuck it. But I still want to figure out the problem and learn from it. For those of you who don't want to waste any more time on this, I also understand.
I have measured the endplay between cylinder and barrel with the wedge tapped in tight. Using several sets of gauges to get an accurate read, they all read .005 to .006 max. Looking at posts here and elsewhere, this seems good.
There were some marks on the back of the frame, but not pronounced or a full "star" pattern.
Admittedly, there is something different. I could have sworn the loading arm went further into the cylinder when I first loaded it. Now it only goes in about a 1/4" before it starts to bind. Without the cylinder on, it moves in the maximum distance. This would indicate it is binding on the chambers. So maybe there has been an "adjustment" to the arbor/frame.


PICT2512.JPG PICT2515.JPG PICT2518.JPG PICT2520.JPG
 
The dents in the cap retention ring were made by the nipples slamming backwards under recoil. Noz nailed it, nipples are too long. Get ones that fit.

A capped nipple should not contact that ring when the capped cylinder is pushed all the way rearward. That would be an easy test to perform, gently. The cap should just be close enough to that ring on the recoil shield to not fall off during recoil.

I suspect the one chamber that did not fire was at the one o'clock or four o'clock positions (from the shooter's point of view) where the cap retention ring thins out at the capping slot. The chain fire you experienced may have stretched the frame enough that the original conditions cannot be repeated now.
 
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Fire_At_Will said:
Admittedly, there is something different. I could have sworn the loading arm went further into the cylinder when I first loaded it. Now it only goes in about a 1/4" before it starts to bind. Without the cylinder on, it moves in the maximum distance. This would indicate it is binding on the chambers. So maybe there has been an "adjustment" to the arbor/frame.
Click to expand...
It might be just an ornament now.
 
Hey CLP, know what you mean, my B/P shooting bud and I were talking at the range awhile back and noticed other non-B/P shooters were beyond curious, till they realized we were talking about B/P!
 
J-Bar said:
The dents in the cap retention ring were made by the nipples slamming backwards under recoil. Noz nailed it, nipples are too long. Get ones that fit.

A capped nipple should not contact that ring when the capped cylinder is pushed all the way rearward. That would be an easy test to perform, gently. The cap should just be close enough to that ring on the recoil shield to not fall off during recoil.

I suspect the one chamber that did not fire was at the one o'clock or four o'clock positions (from the shooter's point of view) where the cap retention ring thins out at the capping slot. The chain fire you experienced may have stretched the frame enough that the original conditions cannot be repeated now.
Click to expand...
Nipples are further out!
 
Thanks for the good pictures. It looks no worse for the wear.
Get the nipples so they don't strike the recoil shield.
The multiple discharge may have bent the loading ram assembly slightly. I have a Remington that never had a multiple but the ram dragged so that it needed to be worked down slightly.
Remember (worst case) these things are worth a lot more parted out than all together
 
Yes, I believe it was the chamber at 1 or 4 that didn't light.
I checked the loading arm with a straight edge. Seemed to be okay but will check again. I need that ball all the way down, don't want any air gaps. I did have to dig a ball from the 6 chamber out of the loading arm entrance.
I wondered if the arbor had been pushed slightly up or down, but the cylinder still seems to be flush with the barrel when all put together.
 
Also checked gap of from end of nipple to recoil Shield, was .046. Other two pietta .44 I have it is at least .075 - .080.

Either way, I will discuss this with members of BP group at my gun club before investing more time and money. Now if I can get Santa to bring Goex and caps....
 
CLP said:
Plenty of good advice. Make sure your balls are big enough and get shaved. Also consider getting new nipples.

How you guys carry on blackpowder conversations with a straight face is beyond me.
Click to expand...
that sure made me chuckle too
 
44 Dave is correct, the cones (nipples) are located outside of the recoil ring. The indentations are from the cone cutouts not having contact with the ring. This can and will allow the cones to locate closer to the recoil shield. This condition occurs from an excessive barrel/cyl clearance. It allows the cyl to act as a slide hammer and pound itself into the recoil ring.
You'll get two different readings with your feeler gauges with cyl in battery and out of battery. The true reading is obviously the cyl in firing position. Cleaning up (trueing up) the ring will give you a constant reading and changing/correcting the cone length should restore the revolver to a safe shooter.

A correct arbor length allowing a .003" (wedge driven in ) clearance will allow "normal loads" to be fired in the brasser.

Mike
 
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