Mauser or Enfield for SHTF rifle

[collateral]

I know some of you might suggest a semi-auto, but thats not what I'm looking for. I have semi-autos already.
I want a good bolt action in a hard hitting caliber that is both affordable to buy and (somewhat) easy on the wallet, so I figured I'd take a look at some of the old war horses out there. I don't want a mosin nagant, I have yet to see one thats barrel didnt resemble that of a smooth-bore musket..

I am considering 2 types of mausers, the M24/47, and the M48. A store in my city has both. I know the M24/47s are rearsenalled, but I dont really know the difference between these rifles. Do any of you have experiance with either of these? Which tends to be a better, more accurate shooter?

Im also looking into an enfield. I know there are several types. Any suggestions as to which is typically the most accurate? I am really leaning towards the enfield because of how quick the bolt can be manipulated and the bigger magazine, but I havent wrote the mauser off yet.

What do you guys think I should get?

 

[DMK]

I'd go with a No.4 Enfield. It has better sights and a 10 round mag capacity. If it doesn't have one already, a milled ladder sight makes a fine sight for range use. Tall front sights are around here and there so you can get your rifle zero'd properly with your favorite ammo.

Most of the Enfields around lately look like crap, but actually they are in better condition than most of the Mausers, even though the Mausers look better. All the Enfields I've seen (and I have about a half a dozen cheap "gunsmith specials" or "shooter specials") have excellent bores and bolts that actually fit and belong to the rifle.

Most of the Mausers I've seen lately are Russian Captures with mismatched, poor fitting bolts and many have rough bores. Plus I can't stand the sights on these rifles.

The only drawback to the Enfield is getting ammo. Good surplus is for all practical purposes non-existant and commercial ammo isn't as common as most other military calibers. You can buy plenty of good commercial .303Brit online though, but don't count on finding any in your local gunshop.

 

[collateral]

Theres a guy who loads ammunition and sells it at his gunstore in waterville ohio. He has some pretty obscure calibers, but all of them are priced pretty well. I think Ive seen .303 british there.

Thank you for the advice.

 

[dm1333]

I'll vote for the Enfield for all the reasons DMK states and add that I have been able to find .303B in local stores. The easiest thing to do is buy a Lee Loader and start handloading. Then just keep a good supply of brass, powder, primers and bullets on hand.

 

[Coronach]

I have several of each (Mausers and Enfields) (and no, not several of each variation. I wish.), and assuming that you're okay with .303 ammo, or go with an Ishy in .308, I would go Enfield. Here's why:

1. Magazine capacity. You get 10.

2. Bolt speed. The Enfield is seriously fast to operate. I can work the bolt of an Enfield much more quickly and- just as, or perhaps even more, importantly- much more smoothly than I can a Mauser bolt.

3. Length of pull. You want one shorter or longer? Buy a different buttstock. They came in 3 lengths, IIRC.

4. Common commercial ammo, if you go with an Ishy .308 variant.

To me, most everything else is a wash. The sights on the No.4 enfields are better than anything on a Mauser, but with the Mojo option (www.mojosights.com) you can get a decent sight on most any milsurp now. Same with the trigger. I like the triggers on my Enfields better than my mausers, but you can get a Huber Concepts drop-in trigger and turn either gun into a real sweet shooter.

The trick will be finding a good Enfield for the price of a Yugo Mauser. Most of the Enfields for sale now have kinda cruddy bores. The Ishapores can supposedly be finnicky, but others will know more about that.

As to which Mauser...I have a 24/47 that is just lovely, inside and out. I dunno if the M48s are better than that on average. As long as you can look at the rifle, I'd say go with whichever looks better, feels better, and has the better bore.

In truth, either rifle will work well for your purposes. Just remember that almost all milsurp 8mm and .303 is corrosive, so clean it RIGHT AWAY, and that there is pretty much no surplus .303 left.

Mike

 

[Coronach]

Most of the Enfields around lately look like crap, but actually they are in better condition than most of the Mausers, even though the Mausers look better. All the Enfields I've seen (and I have about a half a dozen cheap "gunsmith specials" or "shooter specials") have excellent bores and bolts that actually fit and belong to the rifle.

Most of the Mausers I've seen lately are Russian Captures with mismatched, poor fitting bolts and many have rough bores. Plus I can't stand the sights on these rifles.

Really? The ones I've seen have pretty bad bores...but I might have to look again.

And yeah, RC Mausers are a crapshoot...but he was talking about a Yugo, which should be all matching and have a good bore. I totally agree about the sights, though. In stock form, the best sight among the options mentioned is the Enfield No4mk1. If you really want to make it good, replace the 300/600 flip (already a decent sight) with that micrometer rear sight and you're in business.

Mike

 

[DMK]

Really? The ones I've seen have pretty bad bores...but I might have to look again.

Wow, Really? Now granted, I haven't looked at one in about a year, but every one I've seen at gun stores, pawn shops and gun shows (almost all Paki and Indian surplus) have had perfect mirror bores. They all looked like they were shot little, and dragged around on the ground much.

Maybe they're getting to the bottom of the Enfield barrel now after all these years.

 

[Coronach]

Yeah, but I have not been looking much lately, either. Just goes to show that the market changes pretty rapidly with surplus, sometimes. Like RC Mausers...last year they were all mixmaster clunkers with cruddy bores. Now they are mixmaster clunkers with good bores (at least some of them).

Mike

 

[O.S.O.K.]

Couple things

The SMLE's in .303 are pretty hard to find right now at a good price. I know of no wholesalers that are offering them. The ones on gunbroker and such are going for $300+ Yeah. Hard to believe.

http://www.aimsurplus.com on the other hand has the Ishipure 2A rifles for sale - these are made in the 60's and chambered for 7.62x51 NATO. The price is reasonable. This is a 10 round capacity bolt gun. The sights are the standard tangent SMLE type but are very good for their type.

This is a good rifle in a great chambering.

I love my .303 SMLE's but there's no good milsurp ammo left for them and there's no advantage over the .308 in availability that's for sure.

As to the mausers - sure there are some Yugo 24/47's available but the descriptions indicate dark bores and then there's the same deal on milsurp ammo - there's some Romanian steel cased left but its gone way up in price.

 

[elmerfudd]

I've got a 24/47, an Enfield 2A, numerous MN's and a K31. My estimations on price would be for a nice shooter and may be a little out of date.

If you're looking for a rifle for SHTF, I'd go with the Enfield. You get either a 10 or 12 round mag, about the fastest bolt out there and the sights are very good. The Ishapore 2A's and 2A1's generally have bores that are mirror bright. The older #4 Mk1's and SMLE's often have sewer pipes for barrels. Leaf sights on SMLE's and 2A's, peeps on #4 mk1's, IMO both are nice. Around $220.

My second choice would be a K31. These are real bargains and are some seriously accurate rifles as well. Their action is probably even faster than the Enfield and the metalwork is usually beautiful. There are only 2 downsides that I see to them. First is ammo. 7.5 Swiss is neither common nor cheap. Second is the magazine capacity. 6 rounds is better than almost everything else, but it's still inferior to the Enfield. Sights are very good for a rear leaf type, but not as nice as a good peep. Bores are almost always pristine. Around $160.

Next I'd take a Mosin Nagant, preferably Finnish. The bolt handle on these rifles is too far forward to cycle the action very quickly, but otherwise the action is smooth and fast. If it were Russian I'd get a rearsenaled one that wasn't made during the war. The bores on the ones I have seen have been quite good. If it's Finnish, just inspect the condition. I've never seen a nice Finn that wasn't a shooter, but some do have dark bores. Sights are alright, but nothing special. The sights on the Finns are better, but still not great and the safety is horrible. 5 round capacity on both. Around $100 for a Russian, $250 or more for a Finn.

A 24/47 or other Mauser would be my last choice. IMO they are slow to cycle, have very poor sights and a low magazine capacity. 24/47's and M48's generally are in very nice condition however and many of them look like new rifles that have been soaking in cosmoline for 50 years. The safety is much better than on the MN and the bolt handle is in a better location, but I still find the bolt to be slower to manipulate than on the MN. It just seems much stickier. I don't know what these are going for now. I got my 24/47 for around $130 a couple years ago but I haven't seen any for sale recently.

 

[Lonestar.45]

I would go with whichever one has the best bore, and all else being equal, whichever one you can get ammo for the easiest. Both weapons are SHTF-tested and both passed with an A grade.

 

[jesse485]

No Contest

Ishy Enfield. 12 rounds of kick-arse .308. Get a Mojo sight, and you have the best combat bolt ever made.

 

[DougW]

Enfield.

 

[DiN_BLiX]

When i picked up my enfield my dealer was snickering i swear! IT LOOKED LIKE IT HAD BEEN DUNKED IN A BARREL OF BURNT MOTOR OIL! 2 weeks and alot of goof-off later i found a nice shinry bore!

 

[Pigspitter]

wait Enfield or Mauser for a SHTF rifle, what kind of S is gonna be H-ing The F? zee germans perhaps?

 

[Limeyfellow]

Heres another vote for the Lee Enfield. Theres a reason its considered the best bolt action battle rifle ever built.

Its advantages include...

Its significantly faster to operate the bolt. It still holds the record set all the way back in WW2 for armed shots on target. 38 hits on a 12" bull at 300 yards in 1 minute. With practice you should be able to do 30 aimed shots a minute. A Mauser simply can't keep up with that rate of fire and a well trained shooter could get perhaps 15-20 at most.

The Lee Enfield holds 10 rounds. The Ishapore 2a and 2a1 even out do this holding 12 rounds of 7.62mm nato. Thats twice as much as any Mauser you will find.

The sights on a No4 Lee Enfield, gives you an adjustable peep sight over the traditional ladder sight of the Mauser. The Peep sights are faster to acquire a sight picture, easier to aim and more useful in low light conditions. Both have protective front sights which is nice and something I never could understand the Springfield never having. Its a matter of taste which style you perfer. The straight protective ears of the Lee Enfield or the round sight cover of the Mauser. I perfer the former and it can be used to adjust your aim for windage.

Both are nigh indestructable. The Lee Enfield probrobly is better for field repairs. The parts are far more interchangable and simply switching a bolthead to fit a new bolt for a rifle on the Enfield is far easier than having to change the headspace on the Mauser.

Both have good gas bleed systems incase of problems with ammunation. The Mauser action is a bit stronger, but unless you are really heavy loading that doesn't matter so much.

You probrobly find more commercial .303 British ammo than 8mm Mauser. S&B, Remington, Winchester, Federal and a bunch of others make ammo for it, from fmj to sp and hp hunting rounds. None of this is corrosive. Most 8mm rounds you find will be corrosive surplus though theres always Wolf for both rifles.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I'd get the enfield in the mk4 1 or 2 or maybe a mk5. Decent ones are harder to find nowdays, but check gunshows and pawn shops. Most of the Indian ones have good bores, but look like hell. You can always strip the wood with oven cleaner (down to the bare wood) & refinish it.

Really the slickest bolt I've ever worked and deadly fast-reliable to the hilt. Get yourself a cheap lee loader, powder, primers, brass & different bullets. Clean the heck out of the bbl. as it will probably be dark (as are a lot of mil. sup. guns).

 

[Rexster]

As one who has been reading up on this lately, but no actual experience owning or shooting, the Ishapore Enfields look like an excellent choice. While .308/7.72 NATO may not grow on trees, it is available. I forget the source, but one assessment of WWI and early WWII bolt rifles said the 1903 Springfield was a superb target rifle, the Mauser a superb hunting rifle, and the SMLE a superb fighting rifle. Makes sense to me.

 

[collateral]

Well Ive been doing some research today, as well as reading everyones input and I have to say that im leaning heavily towards the enfield, but I am also very interested in the swiss K-31. I'm going to hit the stores in the next week or 2 and I will definitely let you all know what I decided to buy.

Are stripper clips still available for the enfield? what about for the 7.62 Ishapore?

wait Enfield or Mauser for a SHTF rifle, what kind of S is gonna be H-ing The F? zee germans perhaps?

I figured I'd get asked that haha, I want a rifle that wont look threatening but will still be capible of dishing out some punishment. I have semi autos in intermediate calibers (2 SKS, 1 WASR 10, 1 Bushmaster), and I have found most semiautos in "serious" calibers to be out of my price range now that I'm in college.

 

[BigdaddyG]

I'd go for the Enfield too. Although I have good examples of the others. If you get an Ishy beware. I have one that works perfect but I have seen several that gave sticky extraction. Remeber they are 7.62X51 NATO and not a .308 Winchester. The .308 operates at higher pressure and that may have been the problem my buddies had. The Issie's will take strippers but I have found most 7.62 strippers do not fit the slot, they are to small. I tried using some strippers from my 6.5X55 Swedish Mauser and they worked fine IIRC.

I really like the K-31. Made like a fine watch and usually in very nice shape. There is a new batch of surplus ammo in country right now. Still not the cheapest ammo but available in surplus and new form. They shoot great.

I have several Mausers and they all shoot very well. I bought several cases of the Turkish 8mm that was available a while ago and it shoots well and the strippers work perfect. The problem will be finding one with a decent bore.

You didnt state that money was a problem but from your choice I am guessing it is a concern. A few mods to any of the rifles would not be that expensive and could make a lot of difference in usefullness.

As far as ammo availability if you can afford to stock up it won't really matter.

 

[Big Az Al]

For me, my 2 cents!

If you are looking for something to drop, or kick or drop kick, sink the mud, poor full of sand and

Still pick up and shoot

the enfeild is probably the best.

When you mention good bore,

that kinda tells me you want accuracy, in that case a Mauser to me is a better fit.

If one of these doesn't shoot really well right from the get go, there are more choices of barrels then carter has liver pills.

From fair condtion surplus to excellant condition surplus, to ultra target ready for your mil sights after market, and Caliber flexablity that just isn't there with the others! Anything that has .470 + or - .003 or so rimless head size and it's not all that hard to go magnum, 22 to .40 or even larger. 308 win 30-06, a few of X57 cases, have had mil surplus out the wazzu, and sporting out there beyond that!

A 303 you have the choice of well 303 or 303, the 2A, 308, and Change to a better barrel? How custom do you want to go? Mauser options will go somewhere upwards of 3 choices of barrel to 1 for any enfeild, and porbably upwards of 10 to 1


My 2 cents

 

[silverlance]

ishy 308.

however, ive heard that these arent totally safe to use.

 

[Mannix]

+1 on the Enfield, it's the fastest bolt gun I've ever handled, hands down.

I have semi autos in intermediate calibers (2 SKS, 1 WASR 10, 1 Bushmaster), and I have found most semiautos in "serious" calibers to be out of my price range now that I'm in college.

If you want an affordable semi in a full power rifle caliber then take a look at the Saiga 308, they run around $350 and can use modified M14 mags.

 

[gimposaurus]

I was thinking the other day, that if the S did happen to H the F, I'd be grabbing a No4 Enfield on the way out the door

 

[2RCO]

To beat a dead horse Go Enfield! I have a Savage Contract that I honestly believe is the most accurate gun I own. The first time I took it to the range I was thinking Minute of Mountain but it Stupified me how accurate it was and hard hitting too. Don't get me wrong I like my Mausers but the bolt on the enfield is so much quicker. If it wasn't for the Garand the Enfield would have been the best rifle of WWII. Plus if you wanted to you could get extra mags for the Enfield. I will say this though Enfield Firing pins can snap get an extra and buy the special tool for changing them. It can be done with a Screwdriver and pliers but it's hella easier with the tool.

A spike bayonet and a Sling your in business!