(MI) Pledge of Allegiance is now recited in school!

[Darkmind]

Well its about darn time we hurd about something good going on in our schools.

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2686127&nav=0RceU8qC



Pledge of Allegiance is now recited in school thanks to patriotic teen
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Jessica Wisinski


Jessica leads the Pledge of Allegiance at Monday night's school board meeting.




(Update, Greenville, December 14, 2004, 11:05 a.m.) A Greenville Middle School student has been on a mission to spark patriotism in her school.

She may only be 13, but Jessica Wisinski has already received praise from local Veterans organizations, and even Governor Jennifer Granholm. Jessica wants everyone in the Greenville Public School District to say the Pledge of Allegiance.

She is a long way from your average 13-year-old. “Most people are like into their boyfriends and their makeup. Not me. That's just gross,†she adds.

Instead, she is passionate about patriotism, civic duty and respect for Veterans. "I wanted to be in the military since I was ten,†she told 24 Hour News 8. It’s something she got into after watching a military documentary at that age. "They did that for me and there's no reason why I can't do it, even though I am a girl.â€

When she became a sixth grader and noticed students didn't have to say the Pledge of Allegiance anymore, Jessica began her mission. "So I started this pledge group with some kids that would like to help out with it,†she said.

Last week, that changed, as after two years of pressuring her principal, all students now have to say the Pledge of Allegiance.

But Jessica isn't done. With a large group of Veterans behind her, she came to the Greenville School Board meeting Monday night and led those in attendance in the Pledge of Allegiance. She also urged school board members to draft a policy that would require everyone from elementary to high school to recite the Pledge.

"I hope they all say it,†Jessica said.

“To me, it means freedom,†said Thomas Boultinghouse, a Veteran, who attended the school board meeting.

And to the many Veterans who have inspired this young girl, she has inspired them too. "Yes it is, it’s great, it’s great,†added Boultinghouse.

Members of the Greenville Board of Education say it already teaches democratic values in its schools, and now elementary and middle school students will say the Pledge of Allegiance. The Board also doesn't think it will require everyone to recite the Pledge, but Jessica says she won't stop trying to make that happen. She says that she will do this all over again next year, when she gets to high school.

 

[jefnvk]

Good that it CAN be recited, but I don't think it should be mandatory. All I got out of it being mandatory was annoyed. Kinda like forcing religion on someone, you have to let them make the choice to come to it. It is meaningless if you are forced to say it.

 

[Norton]

We do it every morning here.....high school level.

I ask all of the students to at least stand as a gesture of respect....no pressure to recite anything. I have one student who chooses to sit through the whole thing and, though I voiced my displeasure at the beginning of the year, neither one of us makes an issue of it at this point.

I say...Good on Her.....

 

[Chris Rhines]

The POA is an avowedly socialist loyalty oath, written and conceived by an avowed socialist. There's nothing admirable about reciting it.

- Chris

 

[Lone_Gunman]

We should pledge allegiance to the Constitution, and nothing else.

The Board also doesn't think it will require everyone to recite the Pledge, but Jessica says she won't stop trying to make that happen.

So Jessica, the patriot, wants to REQUIRE people to pledge allegiance, huh?

Thats only patriotic if your government is a fascism.

 

[standingbear]

I personally think its a great idea to recite the pledge.so whats the difference than singing the national anthem at sporting events?

it was never mandatory back when I was in school,it didnt need to be..my history teacher in H.S was a vet from ww2,we all looked up to him.funny how the things he taught us back then about "freedoms" are much different than what is taught today in a politically correct society where one cant even say merry christmas without offending someone and worrying about getting sued over it.

Guess the pledge was a different experience for me in school.Im glad that at least someone can say it.




flame away...

 

[Darkmind]

I posted this for every one to read just because of the simple fact that its good to hear that at least someone is trying to do something constructive in school and not just act like the rest of the sheep.

 

[ksnecktieman]

I do not think it should be required,,,,,,,,,,, If you are not eager to do it,,,, just email me with a promise you will never return, and I will find a way to get you bus fare to Mexico, or Canada

 

[FeebMaster]

I posted this for every one to read just because of the simple fact that its good to hear that at least someone is trying to do something constructive in school and not just act like the rest of the sheep.

Right because mindlessly reciting a pledge to a scrap of cloth and better yet, forcing everyone else to do the same, isn't sheep-like.

 

[jefnvk]

so whats the difference than singing the national anthem at sporting events?

If you don't want to sing the anthem at the event, you can sit there, quietly, and not cause a disturbance.

If you don't want to say the Pledge, you are forced to go the the principal's office, have your parents called, have everyone told you are a bad kid, so on and so forth.

And don't go hard on Darkmind. He's just showing that some kids do care, they don't all believe anything with the word GOD in it should be removed from schools.

 

[Glock Glockler]

at least someone is trying to do something constructive

You think forcing people to utter words is constructive? Last time I checked America was supposed to be the land of the free and the home of the brave but now we're reduced to forcing kids to say something they would otherwise choose not to, what happened to being free?

and not just act like the rest of the sheep

She wants them to be sheep, that's why she's trying to get her pledge forced on them. That shows me that she has believes in nothing more than hollow nationalism because if she even slightly understood the concept that this country was based on, being freedom, she wouldnt be so eager to force a recitement of words down people's throats.

 

[Darkmind]

Thanks jefnvk, more or less thats what i was trying to say i'm just not that great at convaying my thoughts.

He's just showing that some kids do care, they don't all believe anything with the word GOD in it should be removed from schools.

Also, i dident say anything to the effict that i agree to FORCEING every one to say the POA

scrap of cloth

Thats only patriotic if your government is a fascism.

wow its really sad to hear that thats how some of you feel about our flag, freedom, and the POA considering the hundereds of thousands of men and women that died fighting for our country because that flag, freedom, POA, and other things ment so much to them that they went out and did what the better part of the population could not.

 

[FeebMaster]

wow its really sad to hear that thats how some of you feel about our flag, freedom, and the POA considering the hundereds of thousands of men and women that died fighting for our country because that flag, freedom, POA, and other things ment so much to them that they went out and did what the better part of the population could not.

Hey now, I didn't say anything about freedom. Personally I'm all for it, but maybe you could explain what the flag, the pledge, and forcing people to say it have to do with freedom. I'm not seeing the connection.

 

[Darkmind]

ok ok ok, once again, i dont agree to FORCEING anyone as far as the POA goes.


What i was trying to convay is that i was glad to hear about this going on in a local school in my area insted of another teacher strike ( been happening a lot in my area)/ teen killed in auto crash/ shooting/ etc etc etc. And i'm glad that their letting kids say it insted of sispending or kicking kids out of school for saying the POA. Once again i dont agree with FORCEING them to say it but you got to remember that this girl is just 13 years old, i dont think she understand why she should or shouldent FORCE the other kids to say the POA shes just doing what she thinks is right.

 

[41mag]

You think forcing people to utter words is constructive? Last time I checked America was supposed to be the land of the free and the home of the brave but now we're reduced to forcing kids to say something they would otherwise choose not to, what happened to being free?

Uh,two things.#1 it's a school .In case you've forgotten you were likely forced to do many many things that you didn't want to do.That leads to #2.If you don't know all the options how can you make a choice?IOWs,if you don't force a thirteen year old to learn anything then how can they make an informed choice about the extent of their freedom?

She wants them to be sheep, that's why she's trying to get her pledge forced on them. That shows me that she has believes in nothing more than hollow nationalism because if she even slightly understood the concept that this country was based on, being freedom, she wouldnt be so eager to force a recitement of words down people's throats.

Given that this teenage girl hails from a mostly rural,conservative farming community that teaches solid values I can understand very well her desire to revive the PoA.IIRC,it seems to have fallen out of vogue sometime in the late seventies.It's quite likely that all of her(& her friends/neighbors)elder generations grew up reciting the Pledge.
I ask you this.How would you get her to describe "hollow nationalism"& how it relates to the PoA as she sits in church on sunday morning w/her dad,a Gulf War vet,& her grandpa,a Vietnam veteran?Hmmm?Just exactly how would you teach this thirteen year old girl that she's a sheep for believing in the symbolism of her nations flag?Oh,& another thing.It's not her pledge,it's our pledge.Even yours.

 

[41mag]

Hey now, I didn't say anything about freedom. Personally I'm all for it, but maybe you could explain what the flag, the pledge, and forcing people to say it have to do with freedom. I'm not seeing the connection.

When I was in grade school-when we still recited the PoA every morning-it was explained to us that that very same flag was flying over our daddies heads as they fought for freedom for the Vietnamese people on the other side of the world.
Beings that we were just tots it just stuck the idea into our pea pickin little heads that the flag was good.Fast forward a few years & the PoA becomes rote.I didn't even hear myself saying it.What I did see was our flag flying over places like Iwo Jima,Beiruit,Arlington,and the embassy in Vietnam.& at that point the pledge had become just a reminder to be thankful for the sacrifices others have made for my freedom & that of countless others around the globe.

You were likely forced to learn a subject that didn't appeal to you in school,yes?
(how does algebra help me become a better cook?)You get the idea?Answer,it doesn't.But it didn't kill you to learn it either ,did it?




Standingbear said it best.

 

[FeebMaster]

When I was in grade school-when we still recited the PoA every morning-it was explained to us that that very same flag was flying over our daddies heads as they fought for freedom for the Vietnamese people on the other side of the world.
Beings that we were just tots it just stuck the idea into our pea pickin little heads that the flag was good.Fast forward a few years & the PoA becomes rote.I didn't even hear myself saying it.What I did see was our flag flying over places like Iwo Jima,Beiruit,Arlington,and the embassy in Vietnam.& at that point the pledge had become just a reminder to be thankful for the sacrifices others have made for my freedom & that of countless others around the globe.

Yes, with liberty and justice for all. Now say the pledge or we'll throw you in detention.

You were likely forced to learn a subject that didn't appeal to you in school,yes? (how does algebra help me become a better cook?)You get the idea?Answer,it doesn't.But it didn't kill you to learn it either ,did it?

No, but I was forced to say the pledge of allegiance everyday for the better part of the time I was in school. Fortunately it didn't warp my mind. All that time wasted would have been better spent learning algebra which is actually useful.

 

[ksnecktieman]

I feel so bad that everyone is forced to promise allegiance to this country, with everyone elses god watching, what a terrible guilt feeling it must create if someone is not serious. It may even be worse if they have a god, and he is watching. It is wonderful to be in a free country. The borders are open, and if you wish, you may excercise your freedom.

Does anyone need the musical score or the words to "the Internationale" or a description of the Canadian or Mexican flags?

 

[41mag]

Yes, with liberty and justice for all. Now say the pledge or we'll throw you in detention.

Hey why not.If you can get expelled for bringing an asprin to school or for drawing a picture of a gun then a little detention shouldn't be a problem.Right?

 

[FeebMaster]

Hey why not.If you can get expelled for bringing an asprin to school or for drawing a picture of a gun then a little detention shouldn't be a problem.Right?

Gee, maybe kids shouldn't get expelled for bringing aspirin to school or for drawing pictures of guns.

 

[Rumpled]

I really like Norton's post.
If I read it correctly, I wonder if the girl realizes that her teacher is actually proud of her(or respectful) for sitting for her principle of being against what he has told her to do. Does that make any sense?
BTW - I recited the pledge every day out of respect for the nuns who would have beaten the living tar out of me if I didn't. I don't think I turned out so bad.

 

[Norton]

I'm always a little puzzled when this thread comes up every few months.

Bear with me here a moment.....we're all in favor of the Constitution, right?

The Constitution outlines the rights that are inherently ours to enjoy as free men, right?

So, isn't the flag a symbol of the country in which we live, which is governed by the Constitution that we cherish?

What I guess I'm getting at is that our lives are filled with symbols and symbolic acts....we wear wedding rings as a public symbol of our marriage, some wear crosses as symbols of their faith, etc.

I have no problem, personally, with being asked to take 15 seconds out of my day to make a symbolic statement of my love for this country, the Constitution, the people who have fought, died to protect it.

Chris Rhines may be right in that it was written by an avowed socialist (shudder ), however, is that the context in which it is being used? I don't feel the need to give away all of my belongings and call my neighbor comrade Halloween was/is a pagan holiday but I doubt that all of those kids in SpongeBob outfits were little Druids-in-training.

There is so little structure in the kids' lives in which they must think in a civic manner. Whether we like it or not....we are all part of the larger whole of the USA and I, for one, am OK with a symbolic act to remind me of that fact.

Wow....all of that at 6:30 in the morning....I must have slept well last night....

 

[Glock Glockler]

Uh,two things.#1 it's a school .In case you've forgotten you were likely forced to do many many things that you didn't want to do

Do you ever think that that might be part of the problem in govt schools? Generally whenever people are forced to do something they don't like it. I was forced to take Spanish or French in school, both languages I had absolutely no interest in at the time nor do they interest me now. I hated every minute of those classes and I am still resentful that I had to take them.

There is also a difference between learning a subject that the school teaches, which is why they are there, as opposed to forcibely instilling attitudes in students, regardless of whether they are about one's country. I don't like having socialists using the classroom as a captive platform to go on about how evil the US is and I likewise don't want the classroom to be used for other political attitudes.

How stupid is it to pledge allegience to a piece of cloth? It is especially stupid considering American children dont know the slightest thing about the idea of "rights", which is the foundation for the American experiment.

That leads to #2.If you don't know all the options how can you make a choice?IOWs,if you don't force a thirteen year old to learn anything then how can they make an informed choice about the extent of their freedom?

What is there to learn? They all know the words to the pledge, what is learned from mindlessly reciting the pledge every day? Do they magically gain an understanding of the federalist/anti-federalist debate after saying the pledge X number of times? What informed choices will they then be able to make after they are forced to say the pledge that they would otherwise not be able to make?

it just stuck the idea into our pea pickin little heads that the flag was good.

Hate to break it to you but a flag is just cloth and dye, and it is no more good or evil than a gun is good or eveil. It's an inanimate object.

How would you get her to describe "hollow nationalism"& how it relates to the PoA as she sits in church on sunday morning w/her dad,a Gulf War vet,& her grandpa,a Vietnam veteran?Hmmm?Just exactly how would you teach this thirteen year old girl that she's a sheep for believing in the symbolism of her nations flag?

I would ask her what values the country was founded on and why the colonists rebelled from the Crown. I would then ask her if those values are any less relevant today. I would then ask her if forcing people to say the pledge, people who might otherwise choose not to say it, is consistent with the American value of freedom. Wearing a cross does not make you a Christian if you behave like a savage and wearing a wedding band does not make you a spouse if you constantly break your wedding vows. Actions speak louder than words.

The borders are open, and if you wish, you may excercise your freedom.

Ok, what if the majority eventually agrees that the pledge be banned from school, that one will be suspended if they utter it, do the same rules still apply that if you dont like it you can leave?

 

[Andrew Rothman]

I'm okay with the pledge -- provided I get to edit.

Forcing kids to recite a loyalty oath with references to God is NOT what this country is about.

 

[FeebMaster]

Forcing kids to recite a loyalty oath with references to God is NOT what this country is about.

Is forcing kids to recite a loyalty oath without references to God what this country is about?