MI: Possible Armed Standoff in the Making
- Thread starter Desertdog
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TheeBadOne
Member
How? There's nothing to indicate this fella is holding women and children hostage?
Cowboy Preacher
Member
Rock Jock, if people want to build a fancy suburb go ahead. But dont complain if you build next to a farm or city dump or whatever offending land use you care to insert in this example. THe trailer were there first and so get over. They have as much right to live in their double-wide as you have to your half-million dollar monument to yuppie status symbols.
Sorry if this sound like a rant aginst rich people, it is not meant to be. I grew up in a nice upper middle class suburb and live in a $200,000 home. I just can not stand the egos of some of these people who want to condeem others homes just so they can forget about the true Americans who earn a living with two hands and a strong back and not with a fancy desk job because they went to Harvard on the Hill.
Sorry if this sound like a rant aginst rich people, it is not meant to be. I grew up in a nice upper middle class suburb and live in a $200,000 home. I just can not stand the egos of some of these people who want to condeem others homes just so they can forget about the true Americans who earn a living with two hands and a strong back and not with a fancy desk job because they went to Harvard on the Hill.
TheeBadOne
Member
Ok, and you know this how?
How? Just look at the videos of the men, women and children that they made their witht he FBIs own tapes. Not to mention testimony from the surviving members.
I'm glad to see you are so trusting and believing of the government to believe their lies and justification for killing decent Americans.
Well, I suppose you know what they say about suckers...
I'm glad to see you are so trusting and believing of the government to believe their lies and justification for killing decent Americans.
Well, I suppose you know what they say about suckers...
How anyone can compare this guy to Randy Weaver, or to Waco, is beyond my ability to understand.....oh, but then again, I'm a Right Wing Conservative, not an Anarchist....
He'd be smart to give in and not cause the authorities to use force........Sorry, but I believe that you have to pick your battles and I just wouldn't pick this one!!!
I'm sure as wound up as some of you are about this thread, he'll have plenty of help, once you all get there to back him up.
Good Luck !!!
He'd be smart to give in and not cause the authorities to use force........Sorry, but I believe that you have to pick your battles and I just wouldn't pick this one!!!
I'm sure as wound up as some of you are about this thread, he'll have plenty of help, once you all get there to back him up.
Good Luck !!!
Kiss your house goodbye
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Posted: September 16, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
A few weeks ago, I wrote about private-property rights. I wrote about the clash between the rights of individual Americans to their property, and the never-ending quest by politicians for more money to spend on their various vote-buying schemes. That previous column didn't generate enough of an outrage, so I'm back to try again. How about listening up this time?
Maybe it would help if I could be more concise. This time, maybe I can make you understand that the very foundation of liberty is under attack.
Just what is the basic foundation of human liberty? Self ownership. It's just that simple. You own your life. If you don't believe that you own your life, then you are admitting that some other person or entity claims that ownership – either in whole or in part.
You will spend part of this life that you own earning money. You will then exchange that money for property. That property, then, represents a part of your life. To deny you that property is to deny you that portion of your life you expended to acquire that property.
Simple, right? Yeah ... so simple even a Democrat could follow it.
Free societies recognize freedom can't exist unless this right to self ownership is recognized. When you are denied your right to your own life, and that which you produce, you are denied your basic liberty.
To protect your liberties, and your right to your life, laws in free societies have always placed strict limitations on the power of government to deprive you of your property. While the law has long recognized the right of the state to seize property, our Constitution limits that power to the taking of private property for public use, and then only with just compensation.
Now, here's the rub. While you might think that a "public use" would be something like a school, a fire or police station or roads and bridges, politicians are developing a completely different definition. In many states a "public use" is defined as nothing more than maximizing the taxes that can be collected on a particular piece of property.
In other words, if a politician figures out your property would generate more tax revenue for government if it was owned by someone other than you, it would then be perfectly OK to use force to seize that property from you and give it to the party who is going to generate the higher tax revenues. You will then be paid for your property based on a bureaucrat's decision on what it is worth, rather than a price negotiated between a willing seller and purchaser.
I first brought this new excuse for the seizure of private property to your attention a few weeks ago writing about Alabaster, Ala. The politicians running this town of 24,000 have decided a new shopping center with a Wal-Mart would be such a wonderful thing for their community ... and especially for sales tax revenues. So, the Alabaster City Council is in the process of seizing the homes of about 11 private individuals so the property can be handed over to the developer for the shopping center.
Today, I bring this up again to tell you about Duncanville, Texas, and the unbridled arrogance of one particular city official. In Duncanville, the politicians have decided to seize the property of Deborah Hodge. They want her house, the pasture, the swimming pool – all of it. They want to hand over the property to a private developer for a Costco. Why? More tax money. The Costco will pay more in taxes than Deborah Hodge and her husband.
Now … listen to this. Kent Cagle is the city manager of Duncanville, Texas. How does Kent Cagle feel about government seizing private homes and then handing the property over to developers who will, in turn, hand over more tax money? Well, apparently Kent Cagle rather likes the idea. Here is what he had to say about the Hodges. Just feeeeel the arrogance: "They don't have the option to say no to us. We have made it clear we want that property. The only thing that will be settled in court is how much we have to pay for it."
That just about says it all, doesn't it? The state of private-property rights in America in 2003. If the government wants another, richer private entity to own your property, you have no option but to say "OK!"
Freedom cannot survive in a society that does not protect property rights. So now you know where the greatest threat to our freedoms resides. Just visit your local city hall.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34615
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: September 16, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
A few weeks ago, I wrote about private-property rights. I wrote about the clash between the rights of individual Americans to their property, and the never-ending quest by politicians for more money to spend on their various vote-buying schemes. That previous column didn't generate enough of an outrage, so I'm back to try again. How about listening up this time?
Maybe it would help if I could be more concise. This time, maybe I can make you understand that the very foundation of liberty is under attack.
Just what is the basic foundation of human liberty? Self ownership. It's just that simple. You own your life. If you don't believe that you own your life, then you are admitting that some other person or entity claims that ownership – either in whole or in part.
You will spend part of this life that you own earning money. You will then exchange that money for property. That property, then, represents a part of your life. To deny you that property is to deny you that portion of your life you expended to acquire that property.
Simple, right? Yeah ... so simple even a Democrat could follow it.
Free societies recognize freedom can't exist unless this right to self ownership is recognized. When you are denied your right to your own life, and that which you produce, you are denied your basic liberty.
To protect your liberties, and your right to your life, laws in free societies have always placed strict limitations on the power of government to deprive you of your property. While the law has long recognized the right of the state to seize property, our Constitution limits that power to the taking of private property for public use, and then only with just compensation.
Now, here's the rub. While you might think that a "public use" would be something like a school, a fire or police station or roads and bridges, politicians are developing a completely different definition. In many states a "public use" is defined as nothing more than maximizing the taxes that can be collected on a particular piece of property.
In other words, if a politician figures out your property would generate more tax revenue for government if it was owned by someone other than you, it would then be perfectly OK to use force to seize that property from you and give it to the party who is going to generate the higher tax revenues. You will then be paid for your property based on a bureaucrat's decision on what it is worth, rather than a price negotiated between a willing seller and purchaser.
I first brought this new excuse for the seizure of private property to your attention a few weeks ago writing about Alabaster, Ala. The politicians running this town of 24,000 have decided a new shopping center with a Wal-Mart would be such a wonderful thing for their community ... and especially for sales tax revenues. So, the Alabaster City Council is in the process of seizing the homes of about 11 private individuals so the property can be handed over to the developer for the shopping center.
Today, I bring this up again to tell you about Duncanville, Texas, and the unbridled arrogance of one particular city official. In Duncanville, the politicians have decided to seize the property of Deborah Hodge. They want her house, the pasture, the swimming pool – all of it. They want to hand over the property to a private developer for a Costco. Why? More tax money. The Costco will pay more in taxes than Deborah Hodge and her husband.
Now … listen to this. Kent Cagle is the city manager of Duncanville, Texas. How does Kent Cagle feel about government seizing private homes and then handing the property over to developers who will, in turn, hand over more tax money? Well, apparently Kent Cagle rather likes the idea. Here is what he had to say about the Hodges. Just feeeeel the arrogance: "They don't have the option to say no to us. We have made it clear we want that property. The only thing that will be settled in court is how much we have to pay for it."
That just about says it all, doesn't it? The state of private-property rights in America in 2003. If the government wants another, richer private entity to own your property, you have no option but to say "OK!"
Freedom cannot survive in a society that does not protect property rights. So now you know where the greatest threat to our freedoms resides. Just visit your local city hall.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34615
suijurisfreeman
Member
Act II, the feud rages on!
The above article on property rights posted by 2dogs is exactly what's going on today in this country! Wake-up Americans before it's too late!
After Judge Sanderson "terminated" my probation in September of 1994, I built two more buildings without bothering to get permission from "the powers that be". Since they couldn't keep me from doing so by arresting me, they next resorted to "economic terrorism"! The following article was on the front page of the Jackson Citizen Patriot newspaper on Sunday, April 13, 1997. A large color picture of me standing in front of one of my styrofoam tax protest signs - Winston Johnson stands near two of his protest signs on Squawfield Road. (The sign I'm standing in front of reads, "A mans's home is his castle, so they say, but not if the Woodbridge Township Stupidvisor has his way!) Protester aims jabs at officials by Steven Hepker (Staff Writer) Hillsdale - When Hillsdale County Road Commission officials approached Winston Johnson to take down his roadside tax protest signs, they encountered an odd sight. "I was trudging up the road wearing a crown of thorns and carrying a 12-foot cross on my back," Johnson said, "I even fell down to my knees, making a mockery out of the whole thing." Johnson, widely known for outlandish tax protests, wallows in symbolism. "He is pretty clever," Stan Clingerman said. "I guess he was being crucified by government." On Saturdays, Johnson portests at the Hillsdale County Fairgrounds by wearing a foam coffin, with a stuffed monkey on his back. He says it signifies the impact of an overbearing government on free men. When he got wind of police coming to arrest him at his 42 acres, he bought a dozen doughnuts and threatened to lead police elsewhere with a trail of pastries. "I have a sense of humor," he said recently at his property, south of Hillsdale. When the Woodbridge Township assessor valued a tiny, half-done structure on his property at nearly $60,000, Johnson ripped up and tossed the assessment notice at the board of review. And then he stewed for hours until he concocted the sign campaign. He built all kinds and sizes of protest signs, and then plastered Squawfield Road with them along his north border. "I'm the property-tax terrorist, and I'll huff and I'll puff 'til I tax your house to the ground," on sign reads. One of his props is a fairly realistic dummy shooting the moon at the assessor, telling him to "Assess this one!" He refers to the supervisor as the "Stupidvisor."
"I could care less what is on the signs, Clingerman said, "We just want to protect the motoring public within the 66-foot right of way." He said road crews remove signs, including political signs, if they are too close to the road. Johnson, 46, researched the law and determined the law regarding roadside nuisance signs was found unconstitutional in 1965 and repealed by the Legislature in 1980. "Mr. Johnson is very knowledgeable and has a lot more time than I do to study the law," Clingerman said. Nevertheless, he asked Johnson to voluntarily remove the signs by April 1. Johnson did not, and was served a notice last week for encroaching on the right of way. He has until May 3 to comply, or risk prosecution for a misdemeanor. Johnson said he likes Clingerman, but will not back down. "In fact, I think I am going to build a tiny leprechaun village down along the road and buy some of those little ceramic gnomes and have them peeking out of the houses," he said. This is no idle threat, Johnson is skilled at hindiwork and tomfoolery. Last week, he started posting dozens of signs on 3-by-5 cards along the road, perhaps a prelude to the leprechaun village.
In Addition to making and marketing cat furniture and toys, he invents and builds off-the-wall games, like the Old West town on his living room table.
He built his house with $1,400 and scrap material. It is a work in progress, as is the 576-square-foot house that was assessed for $30,000. Both sit on concrete piers, so that they cannot be termed permanent structures. They have no running water or electricity. Johnson kicked Assessor Kenneth Vincent off his land several years ago, so Vincent assessed the new building and a nearby shed from the road. The newest building was for one of Johnson's two sons, but the son fled the property recently, fearing an all-out police siege. "He is chicken-hearted. They (his sons) are both gutless wonders," said Johnson, who has watched the movie "Braveheart" more than 20 times. He finds similarities in the oppression the Scottish clans faced and the demands by government on American citizens who hold to constitutional and God-given rights.
His wife, Eula, seems to tolerate his activities with humor and resignation. His sons, however, think he has gone overboard. "My oldest son wants to have me committed," Johnson said. "He asked me: 'Do you wake up every day, look in the mirror, and say 'I am going to be defiant'?" A group of followers, who called themselves We the People, fizzled out. They didn't have the guts to demand freedom from government inposed regulations, he said.
Johnson has spent time in courts and jail during his crusade to assert his freedom. He refuses to buy license plates, a driver's license, auto registration, building permits or insurance. "I have a right to travel. When you ask the government for permission, it no longer is a right," he said. "People have certain inalienable rights the government cannot take away or diminish." Likewise, filing with the Internal Revenue Service is essentially a contract to work for the governement, he said. He has no bank accounts, no electricity, does not pay income tax, or Social Security tax, nor does he deal in paper money, credit or checks. He refuses to maintain an address or post office box. When he sells cat furniture or works construction, he is paid in federal reserve notes and converts them to Susan B. Anthony dollars.
He calls his house a structure in which he and his wife seek shelter. They are sovereign citizens of the Republic of Michigan, and claim no residency. He took down his mailbox and gets general delivery at the Frontier post office, where his mail is tossed into a crate. "It's the same way people got their mail 40 or 50 years ago," Eula Johnson said.
Johnson asserts it is nobody's business what he does, how much money he makes, or how he chooses to live, as long as he is not hurting anyone. Each time you sign your name to an official document, he said, you lose more freedom and establish a paper trail the government can use against you. Flounting authority and mocking local officials, however, has created a larger paper trail than if he were a common working stiff. It is a price worth paying, he said. "I'm a little monkey wrency in the cog of government," he said. "I am as free as a man can be." Contrary to the impression and the "Don't Tread On Me" flag in his yard, Johnson is not a militia member. He considers himself a free man, in the tradition of Patrick Henry, Samuel Adams and Thomas Jefferson. "I went to one militia meeting, but there were so damn many kooks," he said. "I am too independent for that bunch. I don't have papamilitary exercises out here. I'm not violent."
Johnson has confounded local officials with his knowledge of the U.S. and state constitutions, laws and court dicisions. And by his tenacity. "He knows the law enough to try to get out from under it," Prosecutor Neil Brady said in a 1994 trial in which Johnson was found guilty of not buying a building permit for a shed. Later he spent nearly a month in the Hillsdale County Jail for driving without a license plate, driver's license or insurance. He refused to sign his bond, even after prosecutors said they would drop the $250 bond. "Signing a bond gives them permission to prosecute you," he said. Eventually, after Johnson was released and failed to appear in court, the matter was dropped. "We are not going to forcibily detain him on this," District Judge Donald Sanderson wrote.
In the fall of 1995, Johnson was jailed again after a contingent of state, city and county police surrounded him at the Taco Bell in Jonesville. "I just kept eating my taco and drinking my drink," Johnson said. "That time I spent 23 days in jail, and got out October 13, 1995. They have left me alone since them." Given his penchant for mocking government, laws and government leaders, Johnson said he realizes the truce likely won't last through spring.
The above article on property rights posted by 2dogs is exactly what's going on today in this country! Wake-up Americans before it's too late!
After Judge Sanderson "terminated" my probation in September of 1994, I built two more buildings without bothering to get permission from "the powers that be". Since they couldn't keep me from doing so by arresting me, they next resorted to "economic terrorism"! The following article was on the front page of the Jackson Citizen Patriot newspaper on Sunday, April 13, 1997. A large color picture of me standing in front of one of my styrofoam tax protest signs - Winston Johnson stands near two of his protest signs on Squawfield Road. (The sign I'm standing in front of reads, "A mans's home is his castle, so they say, but not if the Woodbridge Township Stupidvisor has his way!) Protester aims jabs at officials by Steven Hepker (Staff Writer) Hillsdale - When Hillsdale County Road Commission officials approached Winston Johnson to take down his roadside tax protest signs, they encountered an odd sight. "I was trudging up the road wearing a crown of thorns and carrying a 12-foot cross on my back," Johnson said, "I even fell down to my knees, making a mockery out of the whole thing." Johnson, widely known for outlandish tax protests, wallows in symbolism. "He is pretty clever," Stan Clingerman said. "I guess he was being crucified by government." On Saturdays, Johnson portests at the Hillsdale County Fairgrounds by wearing a foam coffin, with a stuffed monkey on his back. He says it signifies the impact of an overbearing government on free men. When he got wind of police coming to arrest him at his 42 acres, he bought a dozen doughnuts and threatened to lead police elsewhere with a trail of pastries. "I have a sense of humor," he said recently at his property, south of Hillsdale. When the Woodbridge Township assessor valued a tiny, half-done structure on his property at nearly $60,000, Johnson ripped up and tossed the assessment notice at the board of review. And then he stewed for hours until he concocted the sign campaign. He built all kinds and sizes of protest signs, and then plastered Squawfield Road with them along his north border. "I'm the property-tax terrorist, and I'll huff and I'll puff 'til I tax your house to the ground," on sign reads. One of his props is a fairly realistic dummy shooting the moon at the assessor, telling him to "Assess this one!" He refers to the supervisor as the "Stupidvisor."
"I could care less what is on the signs, Clingerman said, "We just want to protect the motoring public within the 66-foot right of way." He said road crews remove signs, including political signs, if they are too close to the road. Johnson, 46, researched the law and determined the law regarding roadside nuisance signs was found unconstitutional in 1965 and repealed by the Legislature in 1980. "Mr. Johnson is very knowledgeable and has a lot more time than I do to study the law," Clingerman said. Nevertheless, he asked Johnson to voluntarily remove the signs by April 1. Johnson did not, and was served a notice last week for encroaching on the right of way. He has until May 3 to comply, or risk prosecution for a misdemeanor. Johnson said he likes Clingerman, but will not back down. "In fact, I think I am going to build a tiny leprechaun village down along the road and buy some of those little ceramic gnomes and have them peeking out of the houses," he said. This is no idle threat, Johnson is skilled at hindiwork and tomfoolery. Last week, he started posting dozens of signs on 3-by-5 cards along the road, perhaps a prelude to the leprechaun village.
In Addition to making and marketing cat furniture and toys, he invents and builds off-the-wall games, like the Old West town on his living room table.
He built his house with $1,400 and scrap material. It is a work in progress, as is the 576-square-foot house that was assessed for $30,000. Both sit on concrete piers, so that they cannot be termed permanent structures. They have no running water or electricity. Johnson kicked Assessor Kenneth Vincent off his land several years ago, so Vincent assessed the new building and a nearby shed from the road. The newest building was for one of Johnson's two sons, but the son fled the property recently, fearing an all-out police siege. "He is chicken-hearted. They (his sons) are both gutless wonders," said Johnson, who has watched the movie "Braveheart" more than 20 times. He finds similarities in the oppression the Scottish clans faced and the demands by government on American citizens who hold to constitutional and God-given rights.
His wife, Eula, seems to tolerate his activities with humor and resignation. His sons, however, think he has gone overboard. "My oldest son wants to have me committed," Johnson said. "He asked me: 'Do you wake up every day, look in the mirror, and say 'I am going to be defiant'?" A group of followers, who called themselves We the People, fizzled out. They didn't have the guts to demand freedom from government inposed regulations, he said.
Johnson has spent time in courts and jail during his crusade to assert his freedom. He refuses to buy license plates, a driver's license, auto registration, building permits or insurance. "I have a right to travel. When you ask the government for permission, it no longer is a right," he said. "People have certain inalienable rights the government cannot take away or diminish." Likewise, filing with the Internal Revenue Service is essentially a contract to work for the governement, he said. He has no bank accounts, no electricity, does not pay income tax, or Social Security tax, nor does he deal in paper money, credit or checks. He refuses to maintain an address or post office box. When he sells cat furniture or works construction, he is paid in federal reserve notes and converts them to Susan B. Anthony dollars.
He calls his house a structure in which he and his wife seek shelter. They are sovereign citizens of the Republic of Michigan, and claim no residency. He took down his mailbox and gets general delivery at the Frontier post office, where his mail is tossed into a crate. "It's the same way people got their mail 40 or 50 years ago," Eula Johnson said.
Johnson asserts it is nobody's business what he does, how much money he makes, or how he chooses to live, as long as he is not hurting anyone. Each time you sign your name to an official document, he said, you lose more freedom and establish a paper trail the government can use against you. Flounting authority and mocking local officials, however, has created a larger paper trail than if he were a common working stiff. It is a price worth paying, he said. "I'm a little monkey wrency in the cog of government," he said. "I am as free as a man can be." Contrary to the impression and the "Don't Tread On Me" flag in his yard, Johnson is not a militia member. He considers himself a free man, in the tradition of Patrick Henry, Samuel Adams and Thomas Jefferson. "I went to one militia meeting, but there were so damn many kooks," he said. "I am too independent for that bunch. I don't have papamilitary exercises out here. I'm not violent."
Johnson has confounded local officials with his knowledge of the U.S. and state constitutions, laws and court dicisions. And by his tenacity. "He knows the law enough to try to get out from under it," Prosecutor Neil Brady said in a 1994 trial in which Johnson was found guilty of not buying a building permit for a shed. Later he spent nearly a month in the Hillsdale County Jail for driving without a license plate, driver's license or insurance. He refused to sign his bond, even after prosecutors said they would drop the $250 bond. "Signing a bond gives them permission to prosecute you," he said. Eventually, after Johnson was released and failed to appear in court, the matter was dropped. "We are not going to forcibily detain him on this," District Judge Donald Sanderson wrote.
In the fall of 1995, Johnson was jailed again after a contingent of state, city and county police surrounded him at the Taco Bell in Jonesville. "I just kept eating my taco and drinking my drink," Johnson said. "That time I spent 23 days in jail, and got out October 13, 1995. They have left me alone since them." Given his penchant for mocking government, laws and government leaders, Johnson said he realizes the truce likely won't last through spring.
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suijurisfreeman
Member
Another article on this assessment feud from the Hillsdale Daily News, April 1, 1997,Rules vs. rights issue in assessment conflict by W. Rae Loeffler, .........."Clingerman said Johnson told them he would study the laws. The commission gave the Woodbridge Township man 10 days to comply. If he doesn't move the signs by the end of that 10 days, he will be notified in writing. Clingerman stressed the sign dilemma has nothing to do with the assessment issue. "I would like to characterize this as not a running feud with the Road Commission," he said. "I don't care what's on the signs. But when the large signs went up along the road, we felt the need to have them moved. He's (Johnson) been very polite and amiable. We have a good dialogue. While we don't necessarily agree, it's not adversarial or anything like that."
Still, the assessment feud rages on. The signs remain in place, many of them displaying personal attacks on Vincent and local government. "Those signs aren't going to help him on bit because the Board of Review is already over," Vincent said. The board convened the first week of March. "However, I've been thinking about lowering it some, but i don't know what I could do. I might go by his word. He doesn't want to take my word, but I'll try to take at least part of his. He didn't fill out the paperwork, so the Board of Review couldn't do anything."
Vincent, who was recently released from the hosipital after being treated for a bleeding ulcer, squelched the rumor he'd had a heart attack as a result of the situation with Johnson. "I didn't have a heart attack, and it (the ulcer) wasn't because of him," Vincent said. "I have nothing against him. He only needed to talk to us, let us have a peek at the building and we'd be on our way."
If worse comes to worse and the assessment is not changed, Johnson said he plans to not pay his taxes. And if that happens, chances are his land could go up for sale and he might be forced to give up his property-a prospect he refuses to acknowledge. "If they think they're going to get me off my property by targeting me with economic terrorism, they're wrong," Johnson said. "I'll go to extremes to get things done. I won't grovel in front of these people. If they come to arrest me, to remove me, I'll defend my property, and my wife with whatever force I deem necessary. I'm not a threat to anyone, but I have a right to defend myself. I'm a law-abiding person, and I'm not out here hurting anyone. But I won't be oppressed."
So like I posted before, I know whereof I speak, been there, done that! The outrageous tax assessment was lowered considerably by Mr. Vincent without me filling out any of the "required" paperwork! When I paid the new assessment, I paid the $947 in 50 cent pieces, it took two clerks 20 minutes to count all 1,894 coins! After they had completed the job, I asked them, "How do you like counting your blood money 50 cents at a time?"
Some on here have been critical of Lyle Barkley, but which of the facts surrounding this situation do you have first hand knowledge of? Not what some newspaper printed, not what someone said someone else said, first hand knowledge! It's easy to be critical of Lyle Barkley, but what if it were your property, your rights that were being violated, if in deed that's what is going on here? My situtation back in 1997 almost went down to the wire, was I just some crazy wacko? The article posted by 2dogs above is absolutely right, unless private property ownership is secured, liberty cannot exist! Americans need to wake-up! Would I have actually used deadly force to protect myself and property? Damn betcha I would have! Would I have been "taken out"? No doubt, but that's not the point! I drew my line in the sand and I wasn't going to back down! The confrontation was avoided because the assessment was changed, they backed down!
While it may very well be true that one should carefully pick his battles, if you wait too long there may be nothing to battle over! "They" will have taken it all and that will include any means that you may of had to defend yourself! So all I can say to any out there who are playing "armchair generals", you walk a mile in Lyle Barlkey shoes before you are so critical of his actions! I personally know of another "wacko", Zeno Budd of Ovid, Michigan who was railroaded into prison by these fine upstanding public officials! Zeno Budd took a stand, devoted years of his life trying to educate others about property rights and ended up in prison for all his efforts! When all the Zeno Budds, Lyle Barlkeys, Winston Johnsons, etc are long gone, who'll stand up and draw the line in the sand? Who will try to stem the tide of tyranny that is sweeping over this land? Where is the "Spirit of 1776" in America today?
Still, the assessment feud rages on. The signs remain in place, many of them displaying personal attacks on Vincent and local government. "Those signs aren't going to help him on bit because the Board of Review is already over," Vincent said. The board convened the first week of March. "However, I've been thinking about lowering it some, but i don't know what I could do. I might go by his word. He doesn't want to take my word, but I'll try to take at least part of his. He didn't fill out the paperwork, so the Board of Review couldn't do anything."
Vincent, who was recently released from the hosipital after being treated for a bleeding ulcer, squelched the rumor he'd had a heart attack as a result of the situation with Johnson. "I didn't have a heart attack, and it (the ulcer) wasn't because of him," Vincent said. "I have nothing against him. He only needed to talk to us, let us have a peek at the building and we'd be on our way."
If worse comes to worse and the assessment is not changed, Johnson said he plans to not pay his taxes. And if that happens, chances are his land could go up for sale and he might be forced to give up his property-a prospect he refuses to acknowledge. "If they think they're going to get me off my property by targeting me with economic terrorism, they're wrong," Johnson said. "I'll go to extremes to get things done. I won't grovel in front of these people. If they come to arrest me, to remove me, I'll defend my property, and my wife with whatever force I deem necessary. I'm not a threat to anyone, but I have a right to defend myself. I'm a law-abiding person, and I'm not out here hurting anyone. But I won't be oppressed."
So like I posted before, I know whereof I speak, been there, done that! The outrageous tax assessment was lowered considerably by Mr. Vincent without me filling out any of the "required" paperwork! When I paid the new assessment, I paid the $947 in 50 cent pieces, it took two clerks 20 minutes to count all 1,894 coins! After they had completed the job, I asked them, "How do you like counting your blood money 50 cents at a time?"
Some on here have been critical of Lyle Barkley, but which of the facts surrounding this situation do you have first hand knowledge of? Not what some newspaper printed, not what someone said someone else said, first hand knowledge! It's easy to be critical of Lyle Barkley, but what if it were your property, your rights that were being violated, if in deed that's what is going on here? My situtation back in 1997 almost went down to the wire, was I just some crazy wacko? The article posted by 2dogs above is absolutely right, unless private property ownership is secured, liberty cannot exist! Americans need to wake-up! Would I have actually used deadly force to protect myself and property? Damn betcha I would have! Would I have been "taken out"? No doubt, but that's not the point! I drew my line in the sand and I wasn't going to back down! The confrontation was avoided because the assessment was changed, they backed down!
While it may very well be true that one should carefully pick his battles, if you wait too long there may be nothing to battle over! "They" will have taken it all and that will include any means that you may of had to defend yourself! So all I can say to any out there who are playing "armchair generals", you walk a mile in Lyle Barlkey shoes before you are so critical of his actions! I personally know of another "wacko", Zeno Budd of Ovid, Michigan who was railroaded into prison by these fine upstanding public officials! Zeno Budd took a stand, devoted years of his life trying to educate others about property rights and ended up in prison for all his efforts! When all the Zeno Budds, Lyle Barlkeys, Winston Johnsons, etc are long gone, who'll stand up and draw the line in the sand? Who will try to stem the tide of tyranny that is sweeping over this land? Where is the "Spirit of 1776" in America today?
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ballistic gelatin
Member
I work at the county courthouse and made a point to get to know the judges (especially their assistants) and the courthouse deputies. The deputies gave me a key to their weight room and we talk about guns and motorcycles. Sometimes it's about who you know, and I want to know the right people.
I have talked with ladies in the traffic department who have been called "blood sucking vampires" and such. Man, we're just employees trying to make it in life like everybody else, don't take it out on us. You wanna talk? Talk to the supervisor. Then talk to his/her supervisor.
And if it's not already apparent, permits, property taxes and crap like that are just ways of generating tax dollars. The local government (headed by elected officials) is a big fat slow moving terd that eats everything it can find and then looks for more. Planning and Zoning people are hired and cannot be voted out.
Maybe the mobile home guy isn't as smart as some or well spoken as others and figures he'll be thrown in jail if he "takes it to court". Heck, then they send a county crew out there and it takes 2 weeks, 7 laborers, 2 big trucks, 2 engineers, 2 inspectors, 2 electricians, 2 plumbers, 2 deputies, 1 fire chief, 1 foreman, 1 coordinator, 1 attorney, 1 commissioner, and 1 county vehicle for everyone except the 7 laborers (they have to share). And that's not including the road crew that has to oversee the transprortation of this unapproved structure to the Sheriffs impound yard.
We all have a different line in the sand.
That's why we'll never successfully thwart any confiscation legislation.
I have talked with ladies in the traffic department who have been called "blood sucking vampires" and such. Man, we're just employees trying to make it in life like everybody else, don't take it out on us. You wanna talk? Talk to the supervisor. Then talk to his/her supervisor.
And if it's not already apparent, permits, property taxes and crap like that are just ways of generating tax dollars. The local government (headed by elected officials) is a big fat slow moving terd that eats everything it can find and then looks for more. Planning and Zoning people are hired and cannot be voted out.
Maybe the mobile home guy isn't as smart as some or well spoken as others and figures he'll be thrown in jail if he "takes it to court". Heck, then they send a county crew out there and it takes 2 weeks, 7 laborers, 2 big trucks, 2 engineers, 2 inspectors, 2 electricians, 2 plumbers, 2 deputies, 1 fire chief, 1 foreman, 1 coordinator, 1 attorney, 1 commissioner, and 1 county vehicle for everyone except the 7 laborers (they have to share). And that's not including the road crew that has to oversee the transprortation of this unapproved structure to the Sheriffs impound yard.
We all have a different line in the sand.
That's why we'll never successfully thwart any confiscation legislation.
Secret Master
Member
Ballistic:
Do you have any idea how depressing that is? It makes me want to sell my property and go live in a cave with my m-15 cluched in my white knuckled fists!
Do you have any idea how depressing that is? It makes me want to sell my property and go live in a cave with my m-15 cluched in my white knuckled fists!
Sure. But the policies under which they work and the laws under which they operate can be changed.
I'll be the last person to defend administrative law and the bureaucracy that shambles around under its aegis. I'm also a pretty big fan of private property rights. However, the places to fight and win this battle are in the courts and the polling place. The reason for this is because not only is it the civilized way, its also the only possible way to win. Don't think so? Wait and see.
Also...enforcing the court order sure is gona be dicey. They would seem to have the option of showing up with a ready-to-go tactical team and being 'provocative,' or showing up with their pants around their ankles and probably being bushwhacked. It is comforting to know that no matter what they do, it will probably be the deputies' fault.
Mike
ballistic gelatin
Member
I do agree. Anytime you get shot, you lose. I'm just not clear on how to change those policies/laws/ordinances.
Now you're being silly.
I say that availing yourself of you legal recourses like court and the ballot box are the best course of action, and you respond with a scenario where armed insurrection was chosen precisely because there was no recourse to the courts or the ballot box.
Lets see...no taxation without representation...has someone revoked this guy's franchise? Or is he just exercising his (non-existant) right to ignore laws that he finds inconvenient?
Mike
PS before you claim that there is a moral 'right' to ignore/thwart poor laws (a point with which I would be in more agreement with you than you might think), I'll clarify that I'm speaking of recognized legal rights, under our system of government as currently constituted.
I say that availing yourself of you legal recourses like court and the ballot box are the best course of action, and you respond with a scenario where armed insurrection was chosen precisely because there was no recourse to the courts or the ballot box.
Lets see...no taxation without representation...has someone revoked this guy's franchise? Or is he just exercising his (non-existant) right to ignore laws that he finds inconvenient?
Mike
PS before you claim that there is a moral 'right' to ignore/thwart poor laws (a point with which I would be in more agreement with you than you might think), I'll clarify that I'm speaking of recognized legal rights, under our system of government as currently constituted.
answerguy
Member
Sometimes people don't know when to admit victory.
Well, you said that working through the court was the only way to win. Yet historically, there are times when the courts failed to resolve issues and violence did resolve the issue. Granted, those instances are rare, but they do happen now and then. The American revolution was a great example. Where petitioning the King and parliament failed repeatedly, revolution succeeded.
I'm not saying that this guy's position is right or wrong, just pointing out what appeared to me to be a faulty premise of yours.
I'm not saying that this guy's position is right or wrong, just pointing out what appeared to me to be a faulty premise of yours.
There is a difference between petitioning the King for redress of grievances and exercising your franchise to vote the bastards out.
Mike
PS Drat, hit enter too soon! Yeah, it is possible to fight the powers-that-be and win...in revolution. But making a lone stand over a trailer ain't gonna do it. All it will do is hurt "our" cause...be it gun rights, or property rights.
Mike
PS Drat, hit enter too soon! Yeah, it is possible to fight the powers-that-be and win...in revolution. But making a lone stand over a trailer ain't gonna do it. All it will do is hurt "our" cause...be it gun rights, or property rights.
rock jock
Member
I am in agreement with you. Actually, the best way to take land you want is to make an offer to good to pass up. That way everyone wins.
And, for the record, my house is not even worth half of a half-million.
Sergeant Bob
Member
Working through the court system (the very court system which supports the bulldozing) is a great idea if you have the resources to do so. Can he just go to the judge and say "I want to appeal"? Or, does he have to file an appeal, with all the proper legal mumbo jumbo included? Since I doubt he's up to speed on court procedure, he'd probably need to hire a lawyer. Can he afford one (not cheap, even if he could find a GOOD lawyer to take it), plus filing fees? Would one take the case on contigency? Maybe he should try Geoffry Fieger's office (he's real good).
Ballot box? A long term solution for an immediate problem. I imagine one would probably be decent for storing ammo or supplies.
Ballot box? A long term solution for an immediate problem. I imagine one would probably be decent for storing ammo or supplies.
I just heard from both Barkley and Stanley on the Alex Jones show today. www.infowars.com
I hope they put the transcript of the interview up for I can post it here.
Alex basically was trying to warn Stanley the entire time that the ATF and FBI love to join militias as provocator agents and cause problems to demonize the rest of the group. Stanley didn't seem to care, or didn't think such would effect him. Stanley said that since he gives all the "instructions" anything that is done not in line with those are not his actions. He also stated how he was not afraid to take a stand for fellow militia members, and that he is on a list and is tracked anyway so he doesn't care what he says.
He also stated that he doesn't care what the mainstream news says about his militia as they will demonize the militia no matter what. He said this is the only way that the Government will learn not to deficate on it's citizens anymore.
I hope they put the transcript of the interview up for I can post it here.
Alex basically was trying to warn Stanley the entire time that the ATF and FBI love to join militias as provocator agents and cause problems to demonize the rest of the group. Stanley didn't seem to care, or didn't think such would effect him. Stanley said that since he gives all the "instructions" anything that is done not in line with those are not his actions. He also stated how he was not afraid to take a stand for fellow militia members, and that he is on a list and is tracked anyway so he doesn't care what he says.
He also stated that he doesn't care what the mainstream news says about his militia as they will demonize the militia no matter what. He said this is the only way that the Government will learn not to deficate on it's citizens anymore.
jimpeel
Member
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