Militia Raid

[FM2Wildcat]

http://nwanews.com/adg/News/172427/

Agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives arrested a Fayetteville man Wednesday during an investigation into illegal machine guns.

Hollis W. Fincher was arrested at his home, 16085 E. Black Oak Road, after agents executed a search warrant and seized illegal guns, according to an ATF news release.

Agents executed 13 other search warrants Wednesday throughout the Fort Smith and Fayetteville area. The investigation involves the unlawful manufacture, possession and transfer of guns, the news release states.

Word on the street is that the feds even towed a large cannon off the property and have it in the county impound lot.
Mr Fincher is apparently the Commander of his organized Arkansas Militia,
his website, http://www.arkansasmilitia.com/
Pics, http://www.arkansasmilitia.com/photos/pictures.htm

Now someone please tell me why someone needs a freaking cannon?
Do they think they actually have a chance should they decide to make a stand against our govt/military in a stand up fight?
Hey I'd like a fully equipped F4 Phantom to clear trees on my property but let's get realistic here. I'd even be happy with an old F86 sabre but cmon guys.
This is the kind of stuff that's going to blow it for us responsible gun owners and just gives the gun grabbers more ammo as it paints all of us with the same brush.

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

To Begin With,

Look up the definition of "militia". The militia doesn't exist untill citizens are called out in time of emergency to comprise a militia.

What this guy has done is all on the up-and-up with the Constitution. There is nothing in the Constitution to forbid an individual from forming an armed group. Congress has power to form an army. The states have been forbidden to form an army(without the consent of Congress). That is laid out in the Constitution. Congress has power to do the army thing because We the People granted power to Congress to do that in the Constitution. Where did we get the power we granted to Congress in the first place? From our right to do it ourselves!

Woody

Look at your rights and freedoms as what would be required to survive and be free as if there were no government. If that doesn't convince you to take a stand and protect your inalienable rights and freedoms, nothing will. If that doesn't convince you to maintain your personal sovereignty, you are already someone else's subject. If you don't secure your rights and freedoms to maintain your personal sovereignty now, it'll be too late to come to me for help when they come for you. I will already be dead because I had to stand alone. B.E.Wood

 

[fjolnirsson]

Now someone please tell me why someone needs a freaking cannon?

It isn't a question of "need". The Constitution doesn't say anything about "needing arms". It's a matter of rights. Did the article mention this man using his cannon to threaten or harm anyone? Then what's the gorram problem? Lots of folk don't "need" a fancy new Mercedes, or a 70' yacht, but that isn't for me to say.
Liberty means leaving folk alone, so long as they don't harm others. It's the only way to safeguard one's own liberty.

 

[Zedicus]

Now someone please tell me why someone needs a freaking cannon?

What is your problem with a Civilian owning one?

Do they think they actually have a chance should they decide to make a stand against our govt/military in a stand up fight?

I would rather go down fighting than give everything up and become a slave, If that makes me a nut in your eyes, I think you may be a member on the wrong online comunity.

This is the kind of stuff that's going to blow it for us responsible gun owners and just gives the gun grabbers more ammo as it paints all of us with the same brush.

Far from it, it is your kind of reaction that is going to blow it for the rest of us.

 

[FM2Wildcat]

I'm not questioning his right to form an organized militia in a time of a national emergency, I'm questioning his hardware choices and not playing by the rules under the law, read what he was arrested for. Of course we don't have all of the facts just what the news printed and what I heard.
My point is that it's this kind of stuff that's going to blow it for the rest of us that don't feel the need to equip ourselves with cannons and to manufacture/distribute machine guns. It's almost as if they were begging for trouble and they got it.
I'll bet Mr fincher was the first one to say, ' I'd like to see the govt come and try to take my guns, I'll show them".
Well it looks as if he went down without as much as a whimper.
There is a right way and a wrong way to bring about the change one desires in govt and the best way to fight the gun grabbers is get like minded and educated people in office to bring about those changes.
Don't dare them to a fight becaue you will lose every time even if you have the stones to fight them unlike Mr Fincher.

I wonder what I can pick up a surplus B52 D model for?

 

[beerslurpy]

Hey, look its the ATF, throwing a welcoming party for their new buddies in congress! These next 2 years are going to suck.

 

[Lucky]

Wildcat what did they do wrong, who did they harm, why is what they did wrong?

If the only problem you can see is that some 'law' was broken, then you ought to examine the 'law' in question, and find out if it is even 'legal'.

 

[Zedicus]

I still don't particularly agree with what you are saying, although you could be simply wording it badly *shrugs*

I wonder what I can pick up a surplus B52 D model for?

Why not a C-130?

as large aircraft go I'm partial to the B-29 myself

 

[FM2Wildcat]

What is your problem with a Civilian owning one?

(a cannon)

I want an F4 phantom with all the bells and whistles but do you think I'd be allowed to own one? If I can't own and operate an F4 or an FB-111 he can't have a freaking cannon and I mean that in all seriousness buddy.

I would rather go down fighting than give everything up and become a slave, If that makes me a nut in your eyes, I think you may be a member on the wrong online comunity.

And what kind of community is that pal?
You assume far too much in your statement and now I regret reporting the news and adding an op ed.

Far from it, it is your kind of reaction that is going to blow it for the rest of us.

No, as always it's the radicals that are going to blow it for everybody and men like me cherish our right to bear arms but some people always push the limits and take it too far and see now what happens. :banghead:

 

[Evil Monkey]

Well, I salute Hollis W. Fincher for being an American and not following un-Constitutional laws, in the name of freedom.

 

[FM2Wildcat]

I still don't particularly agree with what you are saying, although you could be simply wording it badly *shrugs*

Yes I probably did and that's what has always caused me problems in life. heh I'm not writer obviously but maybe you guys can glean what I'm saying from all of my replies. I'll check my impulse to report and comment on the news in the future.

Hey, look its the ATF, throwing a welcoming party for their new buddies in congress! These next 2 years are going to suck.

That was my first thought too when I first heard about it lol

Wildcat what did they do wrong, who did they harm, why is what they did wrong?

If the only problem you can see is that some 'law' was broken, then you ought to examine the 'law' in question, and find out if it is even 'legal'.

From what I know they have not harmed or threatend anyone in our community and as long as they leave me and mine alone I have no problem what they do out there. But their open radicalism and open challenge to the govt is what is going to cause all of us to lose our guns. If you want to play that game, shut the hell up delete your website and lay low, don't advertise that your spoiling for a fight with the govt. :banghead:

My point is again bro, if I can't have an F4, he can't have a freaking cannon!

 

[StrikeFire83]

We do not live in a Police state, at least not yet. And to all you revolutionaries who think the beast is about to bang down your door and eat your children, I give you some food for thought.

One man with a "cannon" could never HOPE to stop a domestic gestapo force that is determined to kill him. Let's move out of fantasy land.

However, 1,000 men with simple bolt action rifles and revolvers could destroy said gestapo in its tracks.

I won't lose much sleep tonight knowing that a private citizen was just disarmed of his howitzer.

 

[bclark1]

i don't know the circumstances of this guy so i can't judge the case. i will say, though, that the constitution says "the right to keep and bear arms." not the right to keep and bear large knives, or muskets, or flintlock pistols. arms. one can argue the details of the legislative intent, but it's clear that they understood the importance of fully protecting the peoples' right to self defense, without any restrictions as to what they can defend from. today it should be clear that a few rifles and pistols hardly constitute a viable defense to anything more than wild animals and the common criminal element. it is certainly easy to rationalize how the constitution would intend for people to have the most destructive and state of the art weapons available as an assurance that their power in a democracy would be respected - especially today, where we have a volunteer military, which is less representative of our population than a conscripted force. and while some places like switzerland are starting to limit the free reign they once showed their citizens with respect to weapons regulation, the most heavily armed western societies tend to have very low problems with violence associated with those weapons. i guess that's just like the US - legally owned guns by common law-abiding citizens really aren't associated with gun violence either. unfortunately there's a whole underbelly of illegality that give guns at large a bad name in the eyes of the uneducated. but i'm really getting off topic here.

the point is, do i want a cannon? not really. but should he have the right to have one? if you take a literal interpretation of the bill of rights, i don't see why not.

 

[FM2Wildcat]

I would rather go down fighting than give everything up and become a slave, If that makes me a nut in your eyes, I think you may be a member on the wrong online comunity.

One last thing Zedicus, Where were you and "your type" of online community at Waco when the Socialist/Dems in power at the time issued what amounted to an open challenge to the militias. No one showed and I currently have you marked down as a "no show".

Just so you know and to be clear, if I have to go down it will be at the proper time on my own two feet and with a weapon in my hand, not blindfolded on my knees in a ditch.

We do not live in a Police state, at least not yet. And to all you revolutionaries who think the beast is about to bang down your door and eat your children, I give you some food for thought.
One man with a "cannon" could never HOPE to stop a domestic gestapo force that is determined to kill him. Let's move out of fantasy land.
However, 1,000 men with simple bolt action rifles and revolvers could destroy said gestapo in its tracks.
I won't lose much sleep tonight knowing that a private citizen was just disarmed of his howitzer.

A voice of reason.

 

[StrikeFire83]

Should you be allowed to own a thermo-nuclear weapon?

It is an "arm" in the traditional military sense of the word, being that it is a part of the military's arsenal of available weapons.

Should you be allowed to own and operate a poison gas launcher? After all lethal gas still remains a part of the US military's stockpile.

What about an M1 tank? Should you be allowed to own one of those? Does the 2nd amendment extend to weapons beyond those that were available when it was written?

I mean we are talking about original intent and all.

 

[Kentak]

FM2Wildcat

Don't you know only the proponents of the most *extreme* interpretation of the 2A are allowed on this forum? You must have missed that in the TOS.

Also, it's permissible for citizens to ignore a law one believes is unconstitutional without having to challenge through due process of law. I'm sure that's in the Constitution somewhere.

K

 

[drclark]

While, I don't condone illegal manufacture/posession of machine guns or other prohibited weaponry, I would like to hear more details of this story before passing judgement. Many times in these type of raids, alot of the allegedly illegal weapons turn out to be legal.

To answer your questions:

Now someone please tell me why someone needs a freaking cannon?

Civil war re-enactors often have live cannon shoots with historical and/or replica artillery pieces. Don't know what the laws are regarding modern vs historic artillery posession. Was this cannon actually functional or was it a display piece? The museum ship "Lane Victory" sports a full complement of deck guns including a 3" and 5" guns, though they have been de-milled and are non functional. Still, it was fun watching the kids play with the traverse and elevation controls... had to make the coast guard boat a bit nervous seeing the 5" deck gun pointed in their general direction several times as they escorted us out of the harbor.

Do they think they actually have a chance should they decide to make a stand against our govt/military in a stand up fight?

The insurgents in iraq seem to be doing a job of standing up to our forces. Conflicts in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and now Iraq have shown that a small, comparatively ill-equiped resistance with popular support can be very difficult to defeat; especially when the resistance is against an occupation force. There are 300M citizens. How many soldiers does the Army have? How many citizen/resistance fighters would the army kill before the general population turns against the army and .gov in general. Remember, without citizens to govern and pay taxes, there is no use for .gov.

Hey I'd like a fully equipped F4 Phantom to clear trees on my property but let's get realistic here. I'd even be happy with an old F86 sabre but cmon guys.

Warbirds in private hands is not all that uncommon if you have the $$. One with a full compliment of armament is indeed a stretch. However, comparing private ownership of a fully operational and armed jet fighter to ownership of a some machine guns is a bit unfair.

This is the kind of stuff that's going to blow it for us responsible gun owners and just gives the gun grabbers more ammo as it paints all of us with the same brush.

I understand your concerns. I am more concerned that any "organized" militia will become the next "domestic terrorist" threat in the eyes of the .gov. I think that even the Minutemen are walking a fine line. I don't think this event will get much national media play unless it turns into another WACO. The next major school shooting by some sex-predator adult looking for a class full of girls to rape is more likely to do more damage to us in the eyes of the grabbers than this.

drc

 

[Kentak]

Should you be allowed to own a thermo-nuclear weapon?

I'm going to make some popcorn and sit back for the show. Cuz, I *know* this thread is going to get interesting.

K

 

[454c]

Wait a minute. Are we talking about the same type of cannon ? Those ancient big bore muzzleloading type of cannon ? People shouldn't be allowed to own a big bore muzzleloader ?:banghead:

 

[Kentak]

What this guy has done is all on the up-and-up with the Constitution. There is nothing in the Constitution to forbid an individual from forming an armed group.

Two points:

(1) He wasn't arrested for forming an armed group, AFAIK. He was arrested for the firearms violations.

(2) There is nothing in the Constitution to forbid an individual from having consensual sex with your 12 y.o. daughter or granddaughter. Is it proper for an individual have the right to decide for himself that such age-of-consent laws are unconstitutional?

Discuss.

K

 

[Evil Monkey]

There is nothing in the Constitution to forbid an individual from having consensual sex with your 12 y.o. daughter or granddaughter.

That's immoral. Buidling MG's is not, regardless of what law says. If the laws says not to pick your nose and you do it anyway, does that mean you've done an immoral act just because it's the law? Absolutely not.

 

[Outlaws]

The constitution is there to keep the government in check. How can we keep the government in check if we can't own what the government may? We the people are the government. Our gun laws came about from extreme violence. With DNA and all our modern forensics, the days of Al Capone machine gunning down a bar full of people and fleeing with no evidence at all is gone.

 

[Outlaws]

(2) There is nothing in the Constitution to forbid an individual from having consensual sex with your 12 y.o. daughter or granddaughter. Is it proper for an individual have the right to decide for himself that such age-of-consent laws are unconstitutional?

There is nothing in the consitution that says we cannot make a law against that. The 2nd amendment though states otherwise on our right to bear arms.

 

[Jeff White]

What this guy has done is all on the up-and-up with the Constitution. There is nothing in the Constitution to forbid an individual from forming an armed group.

There is also nothing in the constitution to prevent the government from forbidding or otherwise regulating the private formation of armed groups. In fact this very issue was visited by the Supreme Court in the 1800s. Look up Presser v. Illinois.

The milita that is referred to in the constitution and the US code is not just anybody. It is regulated by the states and the governors have the authority to organize it, arm it and appoint it's commanders. It is a part of the government not a check on the government like the members of the armed political parties who have soiled the term militia claim it to be.

Jeff

 

[CrazyIrishman]

The article in the Arkansas Democrat Gazette says nothing about a cannon. Regarding what "The word on the street is", I personally don't go by rumor, hearsay, etc, about anything.

Even if he had a cannon who is to say that its not legal? The problem with alot of information these days is that you'll only hear part of the story instead of the entire story. I mean afterall, we all know how much the media is a stickler for the "truth" and "details", right? They would NEVER let truth get in the way of a story! Our government doesn't lie to us either!

Personally, I don't have a problem with cannon ownership by a civilian. BTW,I don't know about the F4 Phantom but the F86 Sabre is owned by a few civilians, the most notable being actor Michael Dorn. His was shown on either the HISTORY CHANNEL or the Military Channel a few months back. Instead of a F4 Phantom why not look into a MIG? WORLDWIDE WARBIRDS has MIG 29's for sale!