Minimum caliber for dog protection

[thefamcnaj]

As a gun lover and a dog lover this is a tough one for me to comment on. Id have to go the pepper spray rout. I couldn't bring myself to shoot a dog uless my kid was in danger. You cant be jogging and see a dog running toward you and just say OMG!! then start firing a gun on it. If my doberman got out and ran toward a jogger it would be to lick his face off(yes they have bad reps(dobeys) but when raised right and socialized young are harmless), and if my doberman was shot by a jogger i'd be on him like stink on poop!
Also if your jogging in an area where you feel you need a powerful gun, you probly need to find a different area to jog in or invest in a treadmill.

 

[MCMXI]

The average dog is a nicer person than the average person. ~ Andy Rooney

I've been around dogs my whole life ... all 47 years ... and never met one I needed or wanted to shoot. Maybe this photo of my two Rottweilers ... uh, I mean Labradors ... will remind some of you to give a dog a chance. They're people too!!

 

[PabloJ]

Dogs are not people and people come first. Thankfully in last five years I had to use triple mace only three times.

 

[Evergreen]

Nothing less than a .500 S&W .. And that is just for poodles


Ok, sorry to be a wise guy... .38 /9mm with HP/Expanding round should do the job.. Shot placement is key..

 

[Prosser]

1858:
I LOVE good rotts, and, those are beautiful. I'm in love.

That said, I do remember my friend that ended up breeding, and having attack trained rotts had the brilliant idea of getting a Bouvier, if I spelled it right.

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/bouvierdesflandres.htm

Dog was bad, and, would come at you full speed, bobbing and weaving like Mike Tyson on a good day, but with claws, paws, and teeth.

He had the dog put down.

I was around Great Pyrs for a long time, and loved the breed. They and rotts,
smarter then most people, with better judgement, provided they are bred properly, and, there is the rub.

One of the worst feelings I've ever had was being at Ocean Beach in San Francisco, on a holiday, walking on the strand near the Cliff House.

Drunk, rude, San Jose gang banger had a huge Pitt Bull off lead, and he came up and gave myself and my girlfriend a real good sniffing, then, like a good dog, went on his way. I was so mad, since I realized that dog was easily capable of killing my 100 pound girlfriend, and, there was little I had at hand that would have protected her.

In the future, scandium 357 or 9mm Kahr are coming with me in those situations, or better, 45 Super Detonics Combatmaster:

 

[ojibweindian]

I've had a few run-ins with large recalcitrant pooches while jogging. Without exception, pepper spray worked. As a back-up to pepper spray, I carry a 4.5" tanto folder. A knife at contact distances inflicts much more damage than a smallish revolver or semi-auto.

 

[eqlzr]

We think having pets is great. However, for some reason my wife is an aggressive dog magnet, and has been bitten in our neighborhood while simply strolling down the sidewalk. I also have teeth marks on my bicep from many years ago. There is a leash law in our town, and both of those dogs, and many others we encounter on walks, were off leash, and the owners are indignant when you remind them about the leash law, even when their dogs are acting threateningly and out of control. I believe those owners consider their dogs "personal protection". Our personal protection is now metal chisel-tipped hiking staffs. Caliber: 1.5".

 

[jon_in_wv]

People are people and if a person threatens my life I WILL defend myself. This touchy feely crap that you can't defend yourself against an animal that does the same is just garbage. I love my dogs but if they attacked a person I pray they do what they must to defend themselves. I wouldn't be dumb enough to wish my dog survived at the expense of a human being. While some people are naive enough to believe dogs are all sugar, and spice and everything nice the fact is they are animals. I've gotten 14 stitches in my face from my own dog. If the dog had continued the attack after the first bite its likely I would be dead. I carry at a MINIMUM my Ruger LCP when I'm at the city park. I think I could dispatch a dog pretty quickly with it, at least much more quickly than without it.

 

[Guillermo]

1858,

those are beautiful animals.

 

[PRM]

I grew up in a rural farming community where animals had their place in the food chain. As a kid, I had more than one pet that eventually wound up as hamburger or country ham.

One of the funniest statements I ever heard was a young liberal female who was trying to argue the cruelty of killing animals. She said she, "didn't understand why people had to kill animals, why don't they just go to the supermarket and buy the meat where its made???"

Although dogs are not normally on the food chain, I still don't get people who think they are human. And, although I would not necessarily want to kill someone's pet ~ I would not loose a minutes sleep if it threatened me or my family.


I used to take walks with a folding knife in my pocket. A couple of years ago, I had a dog in a sub-division near where I live, come out snarling and showing his teeth at me. I took my knife out of my pocket (never opened it), faced the dog and yelled ~ he backed away and left. About 20 minutes later a white van pulls up along side of me and stops. A young mid-20s guy starts asking me about the incident. Didn't take long to figure out it was his dog. We had a discussion about it and he drove off. Although, he never brandished a gun, I have no doubt by his body posture, and the way he was sitting that I probably had a handgun pointed at me during the whole discussion. My lesson learned, is if you are going to carry always carry. Now, I don't step outside my house without my Walther. I'm glad things ended the way they did, we both got to go home ~ but, its not a good idea to count on that everytime.

"Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid." - John Wayne

 

[Karl Hungus]

Dogs are not people and people come first.

Well, except for all the other people living in some suburb where a paraniod ccw jogger decides to wildly bust off six rounds at a charging yorkie.

Listen - if people here want to live in abject terror of dogs then who am I to stand in their way? But if bullets started coming through my window because some cynophobic jogger decides to go SEAL Team 6 on Fido, I will be the first to shoot back. Part of carrying a weapon is acting in a responsible manner. If there is a dog you feel threatened by on your jogging route, the responsible thing to do is CHANGE YOUR JOGGING ROUTE.

Trust me - I love guns. I love scarey guns. I can't wait for WI to pass ccw. But this thread?:



=

 

[Guillermo]

Karl,

One fellow who commented on this thread was almost killed by a pack of dogs, saved only by the fact that he had a gun.

Dogs attack and kill people all the time.

It is also very irresponsible to suggest that you would shoot someone for a stray shot.

The view from your high horse is a bit skewed.

You might want to rethink it

 

[macadore]

Well, except for all the other people living in some suburb where a paraniod ccw jogger decides to wildly bust off six rounds at a charging yorkie.

Enough reductio ad absurdum arguments. Your arguments are logically flawed. You sound like the anti-gun crowd. Most ccw joggers are not paranoid and they don't "wildly bust off six rounds at a charging Yorkie". They can also spell paranoid and they know the difference between a bust and a burst. A bust is a breast. I have never seen any jogger bust off anything.

 

[19-3Ben]

The worst part about this thread is that nobody has address what can happen if a dog starts chasing you on a bike. No no, not while you're on a bike. While the dog is on the bike.


My black lab:

 

[BADUNAME37]

I have a friend (since deceased) who was willing to put a dog down that bit some kid. He had a 12 gauge pump gun. The dog was probably about the size of a black lab, or maybe a bit smaller. He told me he put the barrel against the dog's head and shot. He does not know much about guns. He wanted me to look at the gun to see if it was still safe to shoot. The gun looked fine to me, I could not detect any bulge in the barrel or any kind of damage whatsoever.

Anyway, apparently the one shot to the top of the dog's head did not kill the dog, it started running all around and he had to shoot it a second time! I would have thought at that range, it would nearly blow a dog's head off which is that size!

 

[MCMXI]

Prosser and Guillermo, thanks ... they're really good dogs. The male is 100lb and his sister is 80lb. They're in great shape and enjoy a good life. They're never bitten anyone and are much more interested in running on the trails than anything else. They do exactly what I want them to do. No one gets in the house without my permission. Even when in the house, if you make a move in my direction that they interpret as being aggressive, my dogs take it personally. My neighbor learned this but he was smart enough to quickly lower his arms (was demonstrating a jujitsu move) and all was good.

Enough reductio ad absurdum arguments. Your arguments are logically flawed. You sound like the anti-gun crowd. Most ccw joggers are not paranoid and they don't "wildly bust off six rounds at a charging Yorkie".

So it's logical to speak for "most ccw joggers"? Isn't that also absurd? I have no idea as to the mental state of anyone but myself and to a lesser extent, friends, family and coworkers. I don't presume to speak for others that I don't know.

I hike with my dogs every weekend in the mountains, and when I lived closer to the trails, three times a week. They're off leash the whole time and occasionally we encounter wild pigs, hunters, hunting dogs, hikers, other dogs, and on a few occasions armed individuals planting marijuana plants as well as armed groups stealing marijuana plants. I take a calculated risk with my dogs since they love to run on the trails. They wear fluorescent orange collars on the trail so that a hunter realizes that they're not a pig. In 16 years of hiking up their with four Rottweilers, I've never had a problem other than a couple of hikers telling me that my dogs should be on a leash even though my dogs showed no interest in them at all. I've told those individuals to hike somewhere else if they're scared by dogs being off leash. I've also pointed out that there's no leash law on private land. I never see them again but it's this kind of irrational reaction that concerns me and that I see in this thread.

As shocking as this may seem to those that presume to speak for all firearms owners and concealed carry permit holders, there are many idiots out there that own firearms as well as many idiots out there that have a permit for concealed carry. As a friend pointed out, saying that most firearms owners are responsible is as ridiculous as saying that most drivers are responsible.

 

[Clark]

http://www.dog-bite-law-center.com/

There are approximately 800,000 bites per year in the United States that require medical treatment.

In one study sponsored by the US Governement Centers For Disease Control it was reported that 32% of all dog related killings of human beings in the United States are caused by Pit Bulls attacks, yet Pit Bulls constitute only 2% of all dogs.

What does it all mean?
If you see a pit bull off leash, get ready to pull the gun out, fast.

 

[macadore]

So it's logical to speak for "most ccw joggers"? Isn't that also absurd? I have no idea as to the mental state of anyone but myself and to a lesser extent, friends, family and coworkers. I don't presume to speak for others that I don't know.

I can only speak about what I have observed. If you need a qualifier, none of the ccw joggers I have observed are paranoid and and I have never seen one of them "wildly bust off six rounds at a charging Yorkie". There now, does that satisfy your sense of semantics?

 

[MCMXI]

I can only speak about what I have observed .... none of the ccw joggers I have observed are paranoid

And you ask if that satisfies my sense of semantics .... seriously?

 

[1911Tuner]

Quote:
In one study sponsored by the US Governement Centers For Disease Control it was reported that 32% of all dog related killings of human beings in the United States are caused by Pit Bulls attacks, yet Pit Bulls constitute only 2% of all dogs.

What does it all mean?
If you see a pit bull off leash, get ready to pull the gun out, fast.
**************

It still comes back to the people who handle and teach the dogs. If the Golden Retriever became the "Gangsta Bad Dog" of the month...the bite statistics would shift.

I've been rescuing for 30 years, and up to my neck in it for the last 20. I've crawled under houses and mobile homes to get injured or frightened dogs, and I've got bite scars on both arms from the wrists to the elbows...and I've never been bitten by a Pit. Never.

The breed that gets top billing for the one that I'm never completely comfortable with is the Chow. They're just too hard to "read." I've seen Chows that'll wag their tails and back up on a chain to lure you to within strike distance.

 

[Guillermo]

The breed that gets top billing for the one that I'm never completely comfortable with is the Chow

I am w you on that one John.


Most dogs give you some communication but Chows are like professional poker players

 

[macadore]

And you ask if that satisfies my sense of semantics .... seriously?

My apologies for not satisfying you. Some things are beyond the human scope. :banghead:

 

[jon_in_wv]

And you ask if that satisfies my sense of semantics .... seriously?

Yet you seem so close minded to say that since YOUR dogs haven't bitten anyone and you haven't had any incident with them somehow ALL dogs are safe and anyone who takes caution around large dogs is somehow inferior to your own way of thinking. The fact that thousands of people have been attacked and many killed by Rottweilers and other large dogs has doesn't mean a thing. It must to so nice to be able to lumber around with your self righteous opinion and not have it encumbered by the facts.


Here are some more facts you can ignore:

1. In 2008 9500 were hospitalized by dog attacks
2. Emergency rooms treat an average 1008 people for dog bites each DAY.
3. In 2010 THIRTY FOUR people were killed in dog attacks in the US.

So while you can ignore the facts the rest of us are wise enough to realize the possibility of being attacked by one of the 74 MILLION dogs in the US is a real one and some of us would like to discuss it like rational adults.

 

[MCMXI]

jon_in_wv, the Brady Campaign likes to use statistics to scare people into thinking like them. Since you like statistics, here's another from the link posted by Clark.

"70% of all dog bites occur on the owner's property".

 

[BADUNAME37]

I had to go inside some people's basement whom I had just met to look at something in their home construction.

There was this Rotweiler in the basement chained to one of the basement metal support columns. This was absolutely the meanest dog I have EVER seen! All I could visualize is this thing getting loose and tearing my face off! I had to walk by it, away from his reach, to get to the steps to go upstairs. Once upstairs I made it clear that I was afraid of that dog and I do not want it coming up the basement steps while we are in the house, I also do not want it freed until I am back in my truck!

This thing had the hair on its back straight up, it was snarling and growling and foaming at the mouth between the loud barks and growls!

For a while, we had a viscious dog that lived across our street. When I would go out my front door, this thing would come running over like it was going to jump me, it was a Doberman.

After two or more times of that, I loaded the only gun I had at the time - a 20 gauge shotgun with 3" Magnum Buckshot and slugs. I kept the gun loaded in my front entryway at the front door.

One day, when the people were not home, this kid, perhaps 16, came to our door with his face in shreds, bleeding profusely. He tried to go into the house and the dog attacked him. I called the ambulance for him and they came and got him. If I ever had a dog that bit anyone (unless the person was causing harm to another), I would definately have no problem promptly putting the dog down.