Misfire because of media in the flashhole?

[redcon1]

All the ammo makers tell you not to do it....but they do it ....sounds like the preachers ...do as I say not as I do!!!

I don't know what they do. How long do they tumble/vibrate their finished product? 5 minutes? 20 minutes? 30 minutes? Do they use a Lyman turbo tumbler like I use? or do they have some kind of high tech specialized equipment and trained technicians with a wealth of experience operating that equipment?

I was always told not to do it. The manufacturers say not to do it. But the internet says just go ahead and do it because (insert anecdotal evidence here). Then another group of guys on the internent says "don't do it because (insert anecdotal evidence here). But I have no need to make it part of my process and the manufacturers say don't do it and so I don't do it. So I'm not going to make it part of my reloading practice because I don't have to and I don't want to shoot my eye out playing cowboy.

Furthermore, my 5.56 and 7.62 rifles are the only rounds I lube these days so this would be the only place where it would be an issue for me and I feel like the added weight of a bunch of loaded rifle ammo would tax my turbo tumbler's motor excessively. maybe. I think probably.

Also, I suspect that this is more of an issue for progressive reloaders who are trying to pump up the volume. That's not me.

 

[buck460XVR]

I was always told not to do it. The manufacturers say not to do it. But the internet says just go ahead and do it because (insert anecdotal evidence here). Then another group of guys on the internent says "don't do it because (insert anecdotal evidence here).

I have yet to buy a new gun that does not come with a dire warning of "DO NOT USE RELOADED AMMUNITION!" in the included user manual. Yet I do.......and yes, the internet says it's safe to do.....and yes, the internet says reloads can be unsafe. I'm gonna assume you use reloads in your guns too, even tho, odds are, at some point in their life, they came with the same warning.

I don't tumble loaded ammo because of mass volume. I still load on a RockChucker single stage. Only cases I lube are the .460, using carbide dies. I tumble them only enough to get the lube off. If you don't think it's safe to do, don't do it. I will never suggest someone do something they do not think is safe....for them. But I also won't write a bunch of posts going on and on chastising someone for their methods either.

By the way....I also deprime live primers when I have to.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

I've often heard that manufacturers tumble loaded rounds, but I've never seen any proof of that.
I've never heard any manufacturer admit it, never seen any articles from manufacturers that detail the process.

I really don't know if they do or not.

Just to stir the pot a bit...

 

[jmorris]

I've often heard that manufacturers tumble loaded rounds, but I've never seen any proof of that.

I built a few machines for a (re)manufacturer in Dallas a number of years ago, one of them was a rolling media separator that would roll down the isle and capable of holding a cement mixer full of loaded rounds.



The large wet tumblers I built for them were for empty cases before loading.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I don't know what they do. How long do they tumble/vibrate their finished product? 5 minutes? 20 minutes? 30 minutes? Do they use a Lyman turbo tumbler like I use? or do they have some kind of high tech specialized equipment and trained technicians with a wealth of experience operating that equipment?

I was always told not to do it. The manufacturers say not to do it. But the internet says just go ahead and do it because (insert anecdotal evidence here). Then another group of guys on the internent says "don't do it because (insert anecdotal evidence here). But I have no need to make it part of my process and the manufacturers say don't do it and so I don't do it. So I'm not going to make it part of my reloading practice because I don't have to and I don't want to shoot my eye out playing cowboy.

Furthermore, my 5.56 and 7.62 rifles are the only rounds I lube these days so this would be the only place where it would be an issue for me and I feel like the added weight of a bunch of loaded rifle ammo would tax my turbo tumbler's motor excessively. maybe. I think probably.

Also, I suspect that this is more of an issue for progressive reloaders who are trying to pump up the volume. That's not me.

Don’t misunderstand, I’m not trying to talk you or anyone else into doing something they consider unsafe, especially not since it has been proscribed by the manufacturers. I’m simply enjoying pointing out the hypocrisy of the powder manufacturers to proscribe The practice based on the idea that tumbling smokeless will remove some post-process coating when they use shipping and handling methods which are at least as, if not more, vibration intensive than tumbling a sealed cartridge casing in polishing media. Yet, as @buck460XVR points out, their own product is proscribed by every firearms manufacturer but it doesn’t stop them from selling their wares. I’m afraid their hypocrisy may be boundless and I find that amusing.

 

[Charlie98]

This is an interesting detour to this thread... because it's something else I've wondered about.

Tumbling loaded ammos: I used to be an OTR truck driver. Yes, the motion of transit does 'vibrate' something like loaded ammunition... or paint. If you want to keep a load of something like paint from freezing... keep it in motion. We called it 'heat from transit.' I don't think the vibration frequency cargo would see would be anything like the high frequency vibration a media tumbler would create over a consistent period of time. The backup magazines full of ammos in my pickup truck... the ammo doesn't seem to deteriorate from both the vibration and heat after 6 months in the console. I don't think the 10 minutes of tumbler time to get lube off is going to deteriorate a loaded round. Put loaded ammos in a rolling tumbler... I don't think there would be a problem, there, either, assuming you don't leave it in there for a month. Having said that... I don't do it, I prefer to tumble my brass before assembly... but I don't see anything wrong with a quick tumble after loading.

 

[longdayjake]

When I first started reloading I tested this. The first thing I ever reloaded was 30-06 for my m1 garand. I was self taught and didn't know that corn cob would get stuck in EVERY SINGLE CASING. The first few times I reloaded I cleaned them out until my lazy side came out and I decided to try a few that were plugged. They all went off just fine without a single missfire. It's been a long time ago and I now tumble with finer media and I would probably not do it if I was hoping to get amazing SDs. But it does work. At least for me it did.

 

[redcon1]

If you don't think it's safe to do, don't do it. I will never suggest someone do something they do not think is safe....for them. But I also won't write a bunch of posts going on and on chastising someone for their methods either.

It probably is mostly safe most of the time if not taken to extremes but I don't think there's been a conclusive experiment to demonstrate that it is perfectly safe all the time under all conditions. I'm not chastising anyone. But I always look for a way not to do it because I always try to follow established safety protocols.

By the way....I also deprime live primers when I have to.

I do that as well, carefully and thoughtfully, but with little fear.

I have yet to buy a new gun that does not come with a dire warning of "DO NOT USE RELOADED AMMUNITION!" in the included user manual. Yet I do.......and yes, the internet says it's safe to do.....and yes, the internet says reloads can be unsafe. I'm gonna assume you use reloads in your guns too, even tho, odds are, at some point in their life, they came with the same warning.

Fair enough but I'd wager that the vast majority of "kabooms" that end up being ammo related were related to a reloader who didn't strictly follow one or more of the many established safety protocols that he was probably taught about at one point.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

I built a few machines for a (re)manufacturer in Dallas a number of years ago, one of them was a rolling media separator that would roll down the isle and capable of holding a cement mixer full of loaded rounds.

Well, sir, I will take you at your word and accept that as proof.

Now I know.

 

[AK Hunter]

The only problem I could see is if the walnut got under the primer & didn't let it seat right. then when you pulled the trigger the primer wouldn't go off, it would just push the anvil out of the primer.

 

[Blue68f100]

The vibrating cleaner is not giving all it's output to the loaded round. All the energy is to make the media roll in the bowl. The round is setting on a cushion of media which absorbs a lot of energy. The vibration is to make the rolling action so the media rubs the brass doing the polishing/cleaning. I would say the loaded ammo gets a lot more rougher handling when the military ships it around. It's stored in metal cans, no packing material to absorb the vibration or impact.

 

[JimKirk]

I don't know what they do. How long do they tumble/vibrate their finished product? 5 minutes? 20 minutes? 30 minutes? Do they use a Lyman turbo tumbler like I use? or do they have some kind of high tech specialized equipment and trained technicians with a wealth of experience operating that equipment?

I was always told not to do it. The manufacturers say not to do it. But the internet says just go ahead and do it because (insert anecdotal evidence here). Then another group of guys on the internent says "don't do it because (insert anecdotal evidence here). But I have no need to make it part of my process and the manufacturers say don't do it and so I don't do it. So I'm not going to make it part of my reloading practice because I don't have to and I don't want to shoot my eye out playing cowboy.

Furthermore, my 5.56 and 7.62 rifles are the only rounds I lube these days so this would be the only place where it would be an issue for me and I feel like the added weight of a bunch of loaded rifle ammo would tax my turbo tumbler's motor excessively. maybe. I think probably.

Also, I suspect that this is more of an issue for progressive reloaders who are trying to pump up the volume. That's not me.

Our very own Walkalong tested several time frames of tumbling and recorded the velocity of each ... I am sure he would be glad to explain ... @Walkalong

I have known employees of two major ammo makers ...both companies were tumbling completed ammo according to those employees.... both applied the slightly waxy feeling " stuff" to their ammo to keep from tarnishing and to remove any other lubes before boxing ... I am sure that "stuff" is a trade secret. ...

Just like that several different powders are the same ...these companies don't really want folks to know ... I had a fellow deer club member that was telling us Winchester 296 and H110 were the same powder made in Crawfordville FL .... where he worked ....

 

[jmorris]

Well, sir, I will take you at your word and accept that as proof.

At least one did. FWIW mil spec ammunition can’t have the evidence of the final anneal polished off, so that’s good evidence they don’t, for that ammunition.

 

[Wyo82]

I have my kids (8 and 12) pull the brass out of the sifter and load bottoms up into loading blocks or empty plastic shell holders. One stacks, the other has the smallest allen wrench I own to pop into the flash hole and knock any corn cob or walnut out. Bonus is I get more time with them, expose them to reloading, talk about hunting, and the 9 yr old practices her multiplication tables while stacking brass in.

 

[Gone Hiking]

I once forgot to pick the media from hundreds of 5.56 primer pockets and didn't realize it until I was almost done reloading them. I was cautious of misfires, but they all went off and hit as precisely as any other. With that said, I don't hope to repeat it.

 

[redcon1]

Our very own Walkalong tested several time frames of tumbling and recorded the velocity of each ... I am sure he would be glad to explain

I reviewed that experiment.

 

[Riomouse911]

If it does plug the hole, where will the gas from the primer go?

It blows back around the primer cup and violently pushes the primer partially out. This then can wedge the soft primer cup material around and into any existing gap in the hole the firing pin protrudes from.

Several years ago we had a batch of Win 115 gr fmj training ammo at work that had a few random rounds inside with no flash holes inside the case. When you fired one it would completely tie up the Glocks we were issued, the slides were totally immobilized. The only way we could clear the guns after firing such a round was by “punching” the edge of the slide at the muzzle on a 4x4 post. (Wood didn’t damage the face of the steel slide.) This broke the grip the partially raised primer had on the firing pin hole by popping the primer loose and ejecting the bad cartridge out.

I sent that entire 25,000 round purchase back and got new ammo from later lots.

The firing of a primer in a tiny, closed area like the primer pocket leads me to believe that the media in the hole better be pretty substantial to keep the flame contained with all that pressure behind it. But, I have had media stuck in firing pin holes after vibratory cleaning after decapping, so now I clean before decapping/sizing. I never have had a squib, much less any noticeable affect, that I could say was from an media-obstructed firing pin hole.

Stay safe.