Missouri Bullet 9mm 124gr COAL and starting load

[Narf]

Hi all,

I purchased 3K 124gr round nose hi-tek coated lead bullets from Missouri Bullet. I have 3lbs of titegroup I'm hoping to use. Hodgdon lists 3.6-4.0 gr for 125gr LCN at 1.125" COAL. this is the closest published data I've been able to find so far. I was going to start at 3.6 and work up a load but upon seating bullets I discovered these have a wide nose and the longest I could successfully plunk a round in all 3 of my 9mm Glocks was seated at 1.088" COAL. This has me a bit concerned. Has anyone loaded these? Would you suggest lowering my started point to around 3.3 gr or go even lower? Hodgdon lists 125gr HDY HAP at 2.8-3.2gr with a COAL of 1.069" for another reference.

 

[Frankl03]

I load 124 Gr plated bullets with 4.2 Gr Tight Group. I size to 1.125-1.130. MO Bullets High Tech 124 gr with 4.0 gr tight group, I loaded these to the same depth. For years I loaded 124 Gr plated bullets with 4.0 gr tight group. I have a couple 9mm carbines that I wanted a little hotter round for so I went to 4.2 gr Tight Group

 

[Narf]

I load 124 Gr plated bullets with 4.2 Gr Tight Group. I size to 1.125-1.130. MO Bullets High Tech 124 gr with 4.0 gr tight group, I loaded these to the same depth. For years I loaded 124 Gr plated bullets with 4.0 gr tight group. I have a couple 9mm carbines that I wanted a little hotter round for so I went to 4.2 gr Tight Group

What firearm are you using the 124gr MO bullets in at that length? at 1.125" my rounds don't come close to chambering in all 3 of my glocks.

 

[Frankl03]

I load these in my Canik Rival, CZ Shadow 2 (sold this one), XDS Mod 2, XDM 4.5 Full size, PTR 9CT, formerly a number of Tanfoglios. Its been a while since I have owned a Glock.
Hope that helps!

 

[FROGO207]

You might not be catching on the lands but rather catching because of excess diameter catching the bullet. Try reducing the diameter by increasing the crimp slightly on the one that plunks longest. Also if you do load them that short I might start a couple charges lower than that 3.6 and work up from there.

 

[Thomasss]

Which 3 pistols do you have would significantly help us figure out what you are working to accomplish. I have shot the Missouri Hi-Tech 124 grain bullet out of a Glock 19, for example. I found though the Glock 19 has a strong slide release and requires a good starting velocity to eject properly. For that reason I would not recommend to lower the charge less than minimum. You need to follow information with the bullet type you are using which is a round nose, lead bullet. Remember even if you successfully find a common load between all 3 guns, that doesn't mean they will shoot that cartridge effectively.

 

[NMexJim]

From MB website:



So, first thing that I'd do would be to mic to bullet itself. I would guess that coated is going to run a .001 bigger than jacketed bullets running .355. Maybe .356 or .357.

To determine if your crimp is about right, normal crimp would be around .380. If a bullet is a bit oversize from .355, then that will be reflected in the crimp size. I'm pretty happy with anything from .379 to .382. You might run into a really tight chamber that doesn't quite like .382. Anyway.....

Look up "plunk test" on this site, and that will help you determine COAL. As the man says above "every bullet has a unique shape" and COAL has caused us all some issues at one time or another. I would suggest that you also look at a Max Cartridge Gage from LE Wilson Pistol Max Gage-PMG- (lewilson.com).

 

[PO2Hammer]

I load that MBC coated RN to 1.080”.
I would start at 3.6 Titegroup.
I use 3.8 Bullseye and it barely cycles my Glock.

 

[lordpaxman]

Would you suggest lowering my started point to around 3.3 gr or go even lower? Hodgdon lists 125gr HDY HAP at 2.8-3.2gr with a COAL of 1.069" for another reference.

I haven’t loaded the MBC 125 LCN, but I loaded a plain 124 uncoated RN at 1.090” 3.6gr TG, instead of the 1.125” specified in the online data due to a mistake, and had the web blow out of the case. Titegroup gets really erratic as the pressure increases from decreasing the seating depth.

If I had your situation, I’d also look at the online data for the 124gr XTP and see if the bullet seating depth was close. Then I’d reduce that data by 10% for a coated bullet. Bullet seating depth is not the same as the COL. The XTP and HAP are similar but specify different bullet diameters, however I would pick the XTP as being closer to a starting load. Too little and you risk a squib.

There are other options for powder, as well as bullets. The Blue Bullets changed their nose profile a couple of years ago specifically for the short throated barrels. It’s just a suggestion:
https://thebluebullets.com/product-category/9mm-38-super-355/125-gr-round-nose/

And if you want to go jacketed, RMR has a lot of great offerings.

 

[AJC1]

Start at start and evaluate... make 50 and go shoot em. Adjust based on function and need. If you can shoot at home, run 5 and tests those.

 

[rfwobbly]

I purchased 3K 124gr round nose hi-tek coated lead bullets from Missouri Bullet. I have 3lbs of titegroup I'm hoping to use. Hodgdon lists 3.6-4.0 gr for 125gr LCN at 1.125" COAL. this is the closest published data I've been able to find so far. I was going to start at 3.6 and work up a load but upon seating bullets I discovered these have a wide nose and the longest I could successfully plunk a round in all 3 of my 9mm Glocks was seated at 1.088" COAL. This has me a bit concerned.

The fact that you are "concerned" has me concerned. It tells me you are afraid to follow the auto pistol reloading guidelines, no matter where it leads. The entire reason we do the barrel testing is precisely because we DO believe our bullet-to-barrel testing is going to report something strange and wonderful that we DID NOT expect. If we knew what to expect in the very beginning then the reloading instructions would read something like: "Put the bullet in. Shoot it." Thankfully it's not that way.

Allow me to state this in the inverse to make my point... If the future could be known, if any bullet fit in any barrel, then people would be marrying the first girl they ever met. Every paring would be perfect. There would be no reason for dating or divorce. Some parents might even marry you off at 5 years of age because it wouldn't matter. Ridiculous! But you get my point. There are differences, and differences matter. So listen to your measurements.

Has anyone loaded these? Would you suggest lowering my started point to around 3.3 gr or go even lower? Hodgdon lists 125gr HDY HAP at 2.8-3.2gr with a COAL of 1.069" for another reference.

• I have not loaded these bullets. I always use 135gr IDP#8 from MBC.
• I do not own a Glock, but I have loaded for my nephew's G19, and gotten similar OALs. All my 9mil guns are CZ which will report similar bullet-to-barrel surprises.
• The Hornady HAP is a jacketed bullet and the data should NOT be used for lead bullets. Find another 124/125gr LEAD bullet to get your load data from.
• The Hornady data is NOT Suggesting you use 1.069", they are merely Reporting they used 1.069" in their single-shot test barrel. You must work out your own OAL... which thankfully you have.
• You could use the same Reported OAL as Hornady, but only if your Glock looks exactly like....



► Here's what I do suggest...
• First and foremost, believe in yourself. Believe in your test numbers.
• I believe your 1.088" number is truth. But due to tolerance stack-ups, you'll need to back off that number even more for absolute safety. I'd be aiming at 1.075" and accepting cartridges in the range of 1.073" to 1.083". No one is perfect, most especially me.
• TiteGroup is a very dense, power-packed powder. So your incremental loads (no matter where you start) are going to need to be 0.1gr just to stay safe.
• You cannot elongate your OAL to make the powder happy, so you may also need to back off the Starting Load. You can work up a mathematical proportion to get a general idea of how much to back off. Using a chrono would definitely be an asset!
• The root cause of all this concern is exactly because you are dependent upon the Hornady web site... which you yourself have found to be worthless. You cannot reload from a website. Go buy yourself a proper reloading manual, such as the Lyman #49 or #50.
• My Lyman 49 gives the following data for your load with Lead bullets: 3.3 to 3.7gr at 1.110" with TG. Doing the simple proportion makes the safe Starting Load to 3.2gr. So the Load Range (which is still 0.4gr) runs from 3.2 to 3.6gr.
• A chrono will help verify this. DO NOT exceed an average velocity of ~1109fps with any incremental load.
• In truth, even 3.6gr may be well below this. This is because proportions only "work" with straight-line changes, and incremental loads are anything but straight line. Experience tells me 3.2gr may not operate the auto ejection, and 3.6gr may be in the middle of the pack. But the main thing is these loads will be safe and you'll end up still having all your fingers and eyeballs. And that is the optimal result.

Hope this helps.

 

[1KPerDay]

I load that MBC coated RN to 1.080.

Same here. IMO a published starting charge is fine and will likely function fine. You’ll have to evaluate for your gun/s. My final charges are usually close to the starting or midrange charge for that powder.

 

[1KPerDay]

Start at start and evaluate... make 50 and go shoot em. Adjust based on function and need. If you can shoot at home, run 5 and tests those.

Yeah I’d load 5 at a time first. You don’t want to pull 50.

 

[eddiememphis]

• A chrono will help verify this. DO NOT exceed an average velocity of ~1109fps with any incremental load.

Where does that number come from? And what do you mean "incremental load"?

Is it just for those bullets? Their site says 1400 fps for lead, maybe higher with coated.

I just got a chrono and am trying to figure the best way to use it as a load development tool.

 

[NMexJim]

Incremental load refers to those increments starting from minimum load up to maximum load. For example, if a load starts at 3.0 for minimum load and goes to 5.0 for maximum load, then anything working up from 3.0 to 5.0 is incremental. 4.3 would be an incremental load.

1400 fps is the maximum fps for that particular lead bullet. That doesn't mean that you should load to that speed. Going to max will probably cause leading problems not to mention maybe pressure depending on your caliber.

Chronos are great tools, but they are variable. By that I mean yours won't necessarily read the same as the speed given in a manual. Too, elevation has an effect as well. I see you're in Denver. That elevation would have a different reading than a reading taken with the same machine, the same load in San Diego. Temperature, and clouds all can have an effect.

What they are good for is accessing how well you are loading. Will tell you if your velocities are holding close from one shot to another and if your extreme spread and standard deviation are good or need more work to be consistent. As a new user, I'd just work on how well my velocities look. They can be an important tool in load development mainly for rifles.

If you happen to have one of the more modern radar-type chronos, congratulations. You will be able to do a lot more.

 

[AJC1]

You cannot elongate your OAL to make the powder happy, so you may also need to back off the Starting Load. You can work up a mathematical proportion to get a general idea of how much to back off. Using a chrono would definitely be an asset!

One may later reduce from start, after testing start. Arbitrary adjustments at his level of experience should be avoided IMO. I also don't believe he owns a scale accurate enough for true .1 grain increments although at that total charge window I agree it would be optimal.

Yeah I’d load 5 at a time first. You don’t want to pull 50.

I normally increment in .1 for those and build an entire ladder for testing. In his case I doubt there will be any issue, and 50 in a 9mm is like 5 minuets. If it were rifle I'd feel differently.

 

[eddiememphis]

Incremental load refers to ...

I was not clear in my question.

I was asking HIM what he means by stating what he did. HIS definition of incremental loads and why he states 1109 is the Never Exceed Limit for that load, when many manuals exceed that limit.

 

[NMexJim]

Ah! Sorry

 

[MEHavey]

Their site says 1400 fps for lead, maybe higher with coated.

124gr round nose

This conversation is beginning to concern me.
Please look (supply) that "1,400fps" citation again.



FWIW: Look at Hodgdon Cite for < 9mm / 124 GR. LC LRN / OAL 1.050" >
Nothing over 1,100fps out of a 4" barrel for max standard load (1,150 for +P)

 

[NMexJim]

Again, from MB site -

 

[NMexJim]

Hi all,

I purchased 3K 124gr round nose hi-tek coated lead bullets from Missouri Bullet. I have 3lbs of titegroup I'm hoping to use. Hodgdon lists 3.6-4.0 gr for 125gr LCN at 1.125" COAL. this is the closest published data I've been able to find so far. I was going to start at 3.6 and work up a load but upon seating bullets I discovered these have a wide nose and the longest I could successfully plunk a round in all 3 of my 9mm Glocks was seated at 1.088" COAL. This has me a bit concerned. Has anyone loaded these? Would you suggest lowering my started point to around 3.3 gr or go even lower? Hodgdon lists 125gr HDY HAP at 2.8-3.2gr with a COAL of 1.069" for another reference.

Narf, have your questions been answered in this thread?

 

[MEHavey]

The 1,400fps cite above is not for a 9mm pistol. Rather, it is for the 18 BN rating,
(In fact I'd venture the author was looking at 250gr/44Mag territory)

The OP would be wise not to try for anything above 1,050-1,100 or so
for any standard cast/124gr/9mm pistol/pressure

Looking at QL for my Berry's/plated 124gr .355" RN for a bullet length of approx ~0.585"
Plugging that at OAL of 1.085 w/ 3.8gr TiteGrp says you're hitting ~32,000psi/1,030fps out of a 4" barrel.
(suggested MAX)

WARNING:
Obviously YMMV (as do the various Web-Published sources)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bottom Line:
I'd start at 3.4gr/TG with a chronograph and stop on/before you hit that suggsted MAX above

 

[rfwobbly]

Where does that number come from? And what do you mean "incremental load"?

CHAMBER PRESSURE ! Everything we do in reloading is to control Chamber Pressure.
► Where does Chamber Pressure come from ? Chamber Pressure is the Result of burning powder within a confined volume (the cartridge, surrounded by the chamber). The direct result of Chamber Pressure is bullet Velocity. By using a chronometer we can measure the bullet velocity and thus gain insight into the gun's Chamber Pressure.

The steel of the gun has a maximum pressure it can withstand. If you load too much powder or reduce the space too much or both, then the gun may explode. This happens all the time. In really bad cases an exploding gun will remove fingers and destroy eyeballs. [And this mistake is much more likely to happen with 'faster' powders, like TiteGroup.]



A lab loaded with sophisticated pressure measuring instruments and lab technicians has determined the load from trial and error. This is done so that you don't need to. They determined that the maximum permissible Chamber Pressure for a 9mm handgun was: Lead bullets: 3.3 to 3.7gr at 1.110" with TG. 3.3-3.7gr is the amount of powder they recommend. Seating the bullet to 1.110" defines the amount of confined volume they tested at. These very smart people found that 3.7gr of TG generated the Maximum Chamber Pressure a normal gun could safely withstand when the lead bullet was seated to 1.110". The average Velocity of several bullets at that Maximum Chamber Pressure happens to be 1109fps.

In your specific case, we have reduced your confined volume by seating your bullet deeper into the case to an OAL of 1.075". In your specific case we have offset this reduction in space by also reducing the amount of powder to 3.2 to 3.6gr. This still results in the same reported Chamber Pressure as the original load. And because the Chamber Pressure is unchanged, the reported bullet velocity also remains unchanged. That velocity was and is 1109fps.

► There are 2 ways to "sneak up" on this load. From the high end working down, or 2. from the low end working up. Most people like having all their fingers and choose the safer method of sneaking up from the low end. There is no telling how the powder will behave, and so we "climb this ladder" one step at a time. Those small steps are "increments". So you will load 5-8 rounds at 3.2gr. Another 5-8 at 3.3gr. Another 5-8 at 3.4gr. And so forth. Those are your "Incremental Loads".

Is it just for those bullets? Their site says 1400 fps for lead, maybe higher with coated.

• Again, you are limited only by Chamber Pressure.
• Chamber Pressure is mainly a product of the powder, not the bullet, primers or brass.
• Other powders may get you up to 1300 or 1400fps, but not TiteGroup.

I just got a chrono and am trying to figure the best way to use it as a load development tool.

• They usually work better in front of the shooter.



Again, Everything we do in reloading is to control Chamber Pressure.

Please buy a good quality Load Manual and start reading.
.

 

[RashQuestion]

Please buy a good quality Load Manual and start reading.

Research, research, research and safety, safety, safety!!! Great information here!!!

Good Luck, God Bless and be safe in your endeavors as you work to find what in the end works best for you!!!