Mixed cases and powder drum malfunction

[jmorris]

I haven’t used every powder measure imaginable, but I have used RCBS, Hornady, Dillon and 2 types of Lee, including the Auto Drum, and case length variations among mixed headstamps has never been an issue.

It depends on how you set them up. In the past, I have intentionally set up powder measures on the long side. Before I built machines that could sort 380 from 9mm, I culled 380 because the powder check die would detect no powder.

However, I would tend to agree assuming they are all the correct length case and not some range pickup where someone trimmed 45 ACP brass to use in a GAP chamber or other goofiness, I’d look more towards an incomplete cycle of the measure.

 

[kmw1954]

Are you sure you adjust die after the riser and auto drum are installed and not before? Looks like their confusing instructions indicate one way for pistol and another for rifle.

There are two separate Powder thru dies for the Rifle and pistol. One expands necks for pistol bullets and the other has a reversed funnel shape to seal the bottleneck case just the same as a powder funnel works.

 

[kmw1954]

I have been using a Drum measure since they came on the market for 380,9mm, 38Spl, 45ACP and 223Rem. on Lee 3 hole turret press, Lee 4 hole turret press, 4 hole ABLP and the hated Pro1000. Have also used both the small and large drums. With ball type pistol and rifle powders this thing is dead nuts. Even works very well with Hodgdon Benchmark powder.

 

[CQB45ACP]

There are two separate Powder thru dies for the Rifle and pistol. One expands necks for pistol bullets and the other has a reversed funnel shape to seal the bottleneck case just the same as a powder funnel works.

That explains it then. It is quite simple for pistol to adjust the die then add the riser and drum.

Thanks

 

[Rule3]

Wow, still at it! 78 posts on a non issue

 

[CQB45ACP]

Wow, still at it! 78 posts on a non issue

Now you know better than that! All one has to do is mention Lee and the planet shifts on its axis. And I’m not talking about Robert E.

If I had a trimmer, I’d trim down a bunch of cases incrementally a hair at a time to see when the drum stops fully rotating. But thank goodness I don’t and I’ve put all my stuff away.

 

[drband]

Let me try to clarify some of this…

Lee PTX die instructions

Note the 2nd paragraph stating the PM is to be tightened (screwed all the way in) and why.

Also, If you need to adjust the amount of flare, screw the die in further for more or out for less. The instructions above simply get you to the starting point. Lee’s instructions are known for being sort of bare bones.

Lee AutoDrum instructions

Note that the pistol and rifle instructions say to secure (or fully screw down) the AutoDrum knurled adapter into the die. This also holds true for the PTX riser (if used). Failure to do so will introduce extra “play” into the AutoDrum actuator tube, causing a failure to fully cycle the drum when dropping charges—even if the die is set up “correctly.” This problem is a known issue causing many to have inconsistent charges when using the AutoDrum.

And, you can still adjust the amount of flare on pistol cartridges by screwing the die in and out with everything else assembled on it, should you change bullet types and need a larger or lesser amount of flare.

Instructions are tricky in that people read things differently and sometimes the written word is simply not clear enough. I hope all of this helps.

 

[Shivahasagun]

I'm the OP.

I had a two minutes to check my drum past night and even then was interrupted.

1. My powder drum has no "button" or chain. But there is a hole to secure a chain.

2. My dies are set in the removable 4-hole turrets. I don't move them when i mount the drum.

Question:

Does the "autodrum knurled adapter" turn with the body of the drum?

Because when the drum doesn't tighten where I want (turning the body to install it) I'll either rotate the body counter clockwise to get the clearance I want (in the past, I stopped doing that) or I just put up with it bumping the primer feed.

I've never adjusted the "autodrum knurled adapter" because I thought it was rigidly affixed to the drum chassis and just a texturized place to grab and rotate the body.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I'm the OP.

I had a two minutes to check my drum past night and even then was interrupted.

1. My powder drum has no "button" or chain. But there is a hole to secure a chain.

2. My dies are set in the removable 4-hole turrets. I don't move them when i mount the drum.

Question:

Does the "autodrum knurled adapter" turn with the body of the drum?

Because when the drum doesn't tighten where I want (turning the body to install it) I'll either rotate the body counter clockwise to get the clearance I want (in the past, I stopped doing that) or I just put up with it bumping the primer feed.

I've never adjusted the "autodrum knurled adapter" because I thought it was rigidly affixed to the drum chassis and just a texturized place to grab and rotate the body.

You don’t need the button on the lever. You won’t need the chain either.

Follow Lee’s instructions but in short, you adjust the powder through/expanding die for the flare you want, then remove the powder funnel adapter and replace it with the riser and then add the drum.

Just make sure you don’t get the die out of adjustment doing so. I used a sharpie to mark each of the die parts and turret so I could see if they moved. But this is where the knurled adapter comes into play. It draws down the drum without turning anything else.

So, that means the knurled adapter is NOT fixed. If it seems to be, something is definitely wrong. It should turn freely. Try fiddling with it before you try to attach the drum.

Again, it will tighten up as the body is drawn down as shown in the photos we posted and eventually stop turning. Look closely to ensure it looks like the pictures. Again, the body should NOT be turning as you do this—that’s the point in the adapter.

If the body turns a little and gets in the way, you can turn it a little just make sure you retighten the knurled adapter and your marks still line up.

Sure you can adjust the die with all the other stuff attached, but doing it first works too and more easily in my view.

 

[drband]

I'm the OP.

I had a two minutes to check my drum past night and even then was interrupted.

1. My powder drum has no "button" or chain. But there is a hole to secure a chain.

2. My dies are set in the removable 4-hole turrets. I don't move them when i mount the drum.

Question:

Does the "autodrum knurled adapter" turn with the body of the drum?

Because when the drum doesn't tighten where I want (turning the body to install it) I'll either rotate the body counter clockwise to get the clearance I want (in the past, I stopped doing that) or I just put up with it bumping the primer feed.

I've never adjusted the "autodrum knurled adapter" because I thought it was rigidly affixed to the drum chassis and just a texturized place to grab and rotate the body.

The knurled adapter will turn independently allowing the AutoDrum body to be twisted/adjusted for best orientation so it won’t interfere with other things as the turret rotates. That is the adapter’s purpose. Be sure to screw it in all the way once you have your position where needed.

 

[CQB45ACP]

The knurled adapter will turn independently allowing the AutoDrum body to be twisted/adjusted for best orientation so it won’t interfere with other things as the turret rotates. That is the adapter’s purpose. Be sure to screw it in all the way once you have your position where needed.

Yes indeed and OP, when screwing it all the way in, it must look like the picture in post 35 and not post 31. If there is a gap between the black colored “tab” and the silver colored body, it will not operate correctly. Sorry to be so repetitive but this is a real thing.

Edit: without a doubt, this discussion clearly captures and reminds me why I stopped using the auto drum even after I had figured it out. I didn’t have this kind of advice to rely on.

 

[BiknSwans]

You don’t need the button on the lever. You won’t need the chain either.

CQB45ACP is correct. And the length of the case will not affect the amount of powder dropped.

You might look at this thread from 2017, especially the video and last post regarding the disconnector. This thread was very useful for me when I was setting up my auto drum.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...consistent-powder-drops.821879/#post-10560313

I haven't used my turret and auto drum in a while, but it is a fine piece of equipment and works very well. I'm spoiled now with my Mark 7 press and powder measure.

 

[Rule3]

Let me try to clarify some of this…

Lee PTX die instructions
View attachment 1129724
Note the 2nd paragraph stating the PM is to be tightened (screwed all the way in) and why.

Also, If you need to adjust the amount of flare, screw the die in further for more or out for less. The instructions above simply get you to the starting point. Lee’s instructions are known for being sort of bare bones.

Lee AutoDrum instructions
View attachment 1129716
Note that the pistol and rifle instructions say to secure (or fully screw down) the AutoDrum knurled adapter into the die. This also holds true for the PTX riser (if used). Failure to do so will introduce extra “play” into the AutoDrum actuator tube, causing a failure to fully cycle the drum when dropping charges—even if the die is set up “correctly.” This problem is a known issue causing many to have inconsistent charges when using the AutoDrum.

And, you can still adjust the amount of flare on pistol cartridges by screwing the die in and out with everything else assembled on it, should you change bullet types and need a larger or lesser amount of flare.

Instructions are tricky in that people read things differently and sometimes the written word is simply not clear enough. I hope all of this helps.

Gads! You mean actually read the instructions????

 

[Rule3]

When all else fails, watch a video!!
This is one of MANY, It also explains removing the disconnect which Lee has done away with.
It is really very easy, It will answer all your questions

 

[CQB45ACP]

CQB45ACP is correct. And the length of the case will not affect the amount of powder dropped.

You might look at this thread from 2017, especially the video and last post regarding the disconnector. This thread was very useful for me when I was setting up my auto drum.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...consistent-powder-drops.821879/#post-10560313

I haven't used my turret and auto drum in a while, but it is a fine piece of equipment and works very well. I'm spoiled now with my Mark 7 press and powder measure.

Oh crap what have you done? Now we have to dissect the disconnector for a couple of days!

 

[CQB45ACP]

When all else fails, watch a video!!
This is one of MANY, It also explains removing the disconnect which Lee has done away with.
It is really very easy, It will answer all your questions

WTH? Sabotage. We had this thing wrapped up!

 

[Rule3]

WTH? Sabotage. We had this thing wrapped up!

Lots of bad info out there, now bad info on Lee dippers!

 

[CQB45ACP]

Lots of bad info out there, now bad info on Lee dippers!

I’m a confirmed dipper and weigher and occasionally a trickler. A urologist’s dream.

 

[LiveLife]

Lots of bad info out there, now bad info on Lee dippers!

I’m a confirmed dipper and weigher

Mini "myth busting" done on forward/backward scooping with Lee dippers and various pistol/rifle powders - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...n-my-uniflow-nope.912127/page-2#post-12454664

I was shocked when I got 0.1 gr variance with some of the powders. Key was the "light tap" after the scooping to level out the powder for more consistent scooped charges.

Yes, definitely good info.

 

[Shivahasagun]

Correct it must look like this
View attachment 1129566

I had not been paying attention to this. I'm not sure what position it was when I was last using it.

But I've got it set now and it looks like this.

Since learning about the adjustment knob I've used it to set the body so it won't contact the primer feed while the turret rotates.

And i turned the die a turn to get more flare to try & stop shaving those lead slivers.

Will give it a try this weekend.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Good luck!

I just had to test to see whether trim length affects the operation of the auto drum so…

Just for fun, I shortened a 45ACP case to .862” (way shorter than SAMMI) and ran it through the contraption. I did the same with a regular Winchester case measuring .8905”.

They each rotated the drum to the same degree—see the black sharpie dot shown in the picture. I did it many times and reset it each time and alternated case order. Simply put your Honor, case length doesn’t affect the auto drum operation.

I did NOT monkey around & adjust the drum. I simply wanted to verify the shorter case operated it the same as the longer one.

BTW, I adjusted the flare using the long case and it barely flared the short case. So there is an issue in that sense but it had no affect on the drum operation.

 

[Shivahasagun]

Good luck!

I just had to test to see whether trim length affects the operation of the auto drum so…

Just for fun, I shortened a 45ACP case to .862” (way shorter than SAMMI) and ran it through the contraption. I did the same with a regular Winchester case measuring .8905”.

They each rotated the drum to the same degree—see the black sharpie dot shown in the picture. I did it many times and reset it each time and alternated case order. Simply put your Honor, case length doesn’t affect the auto drum operation.

I did NOT monkey around & adjust the drum. I simply wanted to verify the shorter case operated it the same as the longer one.

BTW, I adjusted the flare using the long case and it barely flared the short case. So there is an issue in that sense but it had no affect on the drum operation.

View attachment 1129954


View attachment 1129955

View attachment 1129956

Thanks for letting us know!

I'll report back how the next batch goes.

My preferences are: User error > Powder dropper malfunction > "bad" cases.

 

[Shivahasagun]

I loaded 47 rounds because that's all I had left of this batch of bullets. (200 gr SNS FN lead)

I didn't have any problems! I watched the slider for full range of motion, something I had not been doing, every time. It worked consistently and I didn't have any improper powder drops.

I think the problem was the knurled adapter. I didn't know what it was and just thought it was a fixed part to help rotate the body. Now I'll be sure to keep it snugged down after properly positioning the body of the assembly.

Thanks, guys!

 

[CQB45ACP]

Congratulations!

 

[Rule3]

Good luck!

I just had to test to see whether trim length affects the operation of the auto drum so…

Just for fun, I shortened a 45ACP case to .862” (way shorter than SAMMI) and ran it through the contraption. I did the same with a regular Winchester case measuring .8905”.

They each rotated the drum to the same degree—see the black sharpie dot shown in the picture. I did it many times and reset it each time and alternated case order. Simply put your Honor, case length doesn’t affect the auto drum operation.

I did NOT monkey around & adjust the drum. I simply wanted to verify the shorter case operated it the same as the longer one.

BTW, I adjusted the flare using the long case and it barely flared the short case. So there is an issue in that sense but it had no affect on the drum operation.

View attachment 1129954


View attachment 1129955

View attachment 1129956

I already said that, but nice pictures! I like pictures