357sig First batch load on Lee Turret, but no Lee Auto-Drum

[vaalpens]

Yesterday for the first time I loaded a batch of 357sig on my Lee Turret. I have used the Lee Turret for other pistol cartridges in conjunction with my Lee Auto-Drum. It worked great and started to make me lazy as compared against the Lee singe stage.

The brass I used has been prepared for the Lee SS, with the decapping, resizing and cleaning all done. I will probably still prep my brass for the SS since some lube is used and I like to clean the brass after using case lube.

I have a 4 station turret and all stations were used; sizing die, expanding die, seating die, and Lee FCD.

I did not use the Lee Auto-Drum since it seems the AD bells the 357sig mouths too much, and I like to keep the belling to a minimum, which is also why I pre-sort my brass by headstamp and length. So without the Lee AD, I attached a funnel to the expanding through die and used a dipper, trickler and beam scale like I do when using the single stage. My process was as follow:

Pick up case and place in shell holder
Pick up primer and place primer arm cup
Ram up and resize case
Ram down and seat primer
Ram up and expand case
Leave ram up and measure/trickle powder
Dump powder in funnel
Pick up bullet and bring ram down
Inspect case and place bullet while holding ram down
Ram up and seat bullet
Ram down
Ram up and crimp
Ram halfway down and remove round
Start over

What I found was that it worked best for me dump the powder in the funnel, return the pan and immediately use the dipper and drop some powder in the pan. Then when it was time to pick up the pan, the beam would have settled and I could just trickle the last few kernels.

The above process is much faster than my SS process, but still lacks the the nice simple flow and process of the other pistol cartridges where I use the turret and the auto-drum. Since I am a bit spoiled with the turret and auto-drum, it seems that I will need to look at some other powder drop options that can be mounted on the Lee expansion through die, or just a separate standing powder drop. I don't want to use a case activated powder drop when loading 357sig, well at least not one that doesn't allow me to be precise with the belling.

I have always looked at maybe getting the RCBS Uniflow or RCBS Competition powder measure, or something like that. I assume any of them will work well standing alone, but can they also be mounted on a Lee expansion through die?

Any comments on my process or powder measure recommendations will be appreciated.

 

[Rule3]

If you are using the Lee Powder through expanding die and it flairs the case fine, there should be no reason attaching the the Auto Drum makes any difference?

Might just need to back out the Expanding die a bit or readjust the Auto Drum.
The expander in the die, works the same with the "funnel" attachment" as it does with the AD attached??

 

[2011redrider]

You can use a case operated linkage and a Uniflow, it's about 200, plus powder funnels are 8-12 for each caliber. Or if you want to manually charge the cases, Lyman makes a expander die with threads for any conventional PM (7/8-14) for 36.
Includes: Expander body, hollow expanders for 32, 9mm, 38/357, 10mm/40 S&W, 41, 44 and 45 plus a non-expanding universal powder drop tube.
Never seen an adapter for Lee dies.
I had the case operated system on a Lee Turret before I sold it, and it made the turret very heavy to turn.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1458295370/rcbs-uniflow-powder-measure

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/802477/rcbs-uniflow-powder-measure-case-activated-linkage-kit

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/748976/lyman-multi-expander-and-powder-charge-die?utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Reloading+-+Dies+&+Shellholders&utm_content=748976&cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Reloading+-+Dies+&+Shellholders-_-Lyman-_-748976&gclid=Cj0KCQjwwODlBRDuARIsAMy_28Wr18VF3_BnMAdaYjmsAdjWa6LkpsDakDY3AxwYgcX-vcNCSljsTzAaAu7KEALw_wcB


Found this on you tube but appears to be a custom adapter? Believe he goes by "OS OK" on Cast Boolits, at least the after is the same.

 

[vaalpens]

If you are using the Lee Powder through expanding die and it flairs the case fine, there should be no reason attaching the the Auto Drum makes any difference?

Might just need to back out the Expanding die a bit or readjust the Auto Drum.
The expander in the die, works the same with the "funnel" attachment" as it does with the AD attached??

Thanks for the comments.

Just after I received the Auto-Drum I tested it with 357sig. I had to adjust it first to ensure the drum rotates all the way for the powder to drop. For me the belling was too much. I did not put a lot of effort in trying to adjust it out to see if I could get it to that sweet spot. I will probably try again since I like using the Auto-Drum.

I did not use any special funnel attachment. I just used the expander die as is, and placed a funnel inside the top nut. I did wrapped some masking tape around the bottom pipe of the funnel so it snug in the die, but the expanding die is standard. With the AD the top nut is removed and the expansion compresses the AD spring and rotates the drum.

 

[Rule3]

Thanks for the comments.

Just after I received the Auto-Drum I tested it with 357sig. I had to adjust it first to ensure the drum rotates all the way for the powder to drop. For me the belling was too much. I did not put a lot of effort in trying to adjust it out to see if I could get it to that sweet spot. I will probably try again since I like using the Auto-Drum.

I did not use any special funnel attachment. I just used the expander die as is, and placed a funnel inside the top nut. I did wrapped some masking tape around the bottom pipe of the funnel so it snug in the die, but the expanding die is standard. With the AD the top nut is removed and the expansion compresses the AD spring and rotates the drum.

The "aluminum" top nut is the funnel adapter. The Lee Funnel fits right in there. It is what hold the expander plug in.

https://leeprecision.com/funnel-adapter.html

You replace it with a handgun length riser and then screw the Powder measure into it (Auto Disc or Auto drum) (If you use the safety prime, so it will clear)
If the flaring works with the "top nut" it should be no different with the powder measure

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012822029/lee-auto-disk-powder-measure-riser

 

[1KPerDay]

Should be able to adjust the die to get full rotation of the drum and the amount of flare you want. Try messing with it some more.

 

[vaalpens]

Should be able to adjust the die to get full rotation of the drum and the amount of flare you want. Try messing with it some more.

Thanks. I will play with it some more over the week/weekend and see if I can get it closer to where I want it. I think just looking at the mechanics of the Auto-Drum, that it will overwork the brass.

 

[vaalpens]

The "aluminum" top nut is the funnel adapter. The Lee Funnel fits right in there. It is what hold the expander plug in.

https://leeprecision.com/funnel-adapter.html

You replace it with a handgun length riser and then screw the Powder measure into it (Auto Disc or Auto drum) (If you use the safety prime, so it will clear)
If the flaring works with the "top nut" it should be no different with the powder measure

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012822029/lee-auto-disk-powder-measure-riser

Thanks for the comments.

I still think there is a difference between using the funnel adapter and the AutoDrum.

With the funnel adapter the plug is loose inside the body and only starts doing something once the plug is pushed up against the top. Any adjustment down will now force the nipple deeper into the neck until the belling starts. So with every minute adjustment down, the belling will increase until you get it to where you want it.

With the Auto-Drum the plug pushes against the piece that fits inside the expander plug. Once it starts pushing, it has to be pushed a way to get full rotation of the drum. It never hits a wall, but the spring tension is enough to get the nipple inside the case body and do the belling. The problem is, that the bottle neck doesn't provide a lot of resistance, so compressing the spring is all against the expansion/belling part, so it keep on expanding until full rotation has been reached, but no wall. I think when I tested it the first time I reached the desired expansion after about a quarter or half rotation.

I will definitely try it again and see if I can get it a setting that will satisfy the rotation/powder drop and amount of belling.

 

[Rule3]

Without actually seeing it and messing with can't really suggest anything else other than call LEE.
Mainly be sure you have the Powder measure set to rotate correctly and not over rotating it. There are gobs of videos out there.

(Jazzy Music)

 

[vaalpens]

Without actually seeing it and messing with can't really suggest anything else other than call LEE.
Mainly be sure you have the Powder measure set to rotate correctly and not over rotating it. There are gobs of videos out there.

Thanks for posting the video. It is always a good to get a refresher on how to set up the AD.

I will check my setup again, but I always make sure that the black square never fully touch. On a single stage you can actually feel it when it touches. I will also do a few expansion tests, verify my results again, and maybe post a few pictures.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

When I first started using my LCT with the AutoDrum, I had the same problem with too much bell. It took some fiddling with the adjustment of the expanding die, but I did eventually get it set up correctly.

IIRC, I had to reset the die, and make certain the AD was completely screwed down on the riser (in my case), or the die itself - depending on how you are running the press.

 

[vaalpens]

When I first started using my LCT with the AutoDrum, I had the same problem with too much bell. It took some fiddling with the adjustment of the expanding die, but I did eventually get it set up correctly.

IIRC, I had to reset the die, and make certain the AD was completely screwed down on the riser (in my case), or the die itself - depending on how you are running the press.

Thanks for the information. Good to know that you were able to get the AD to work for 357sig. I will do some testing tonight and see I can get it set up to my liking.

 

[vaalpens]

Thanks again for all the advice I received.

I did a few tests tonight to see if I can get the bell to my liking, and I think I got close to it. Following are the results from the test:

I started with five 357sig cases with a length of .858". Luckily my LCT was set u[p for 357sig, so I ran them all through the resizer just to make sure I had consistent measurements.
After the resize the outside diameter of the mouth was .375" for all of them.
I than ran one of the cases through the expanding die as it was set up with the top nut, and the result was an outside diameter of .380". I placed a bullet on the case and it was a nice tight fit.
I then installed the FCD lowering it until I got about a 1/2 rotation on the drum. The outside diameter was .3785", and I was able to place the bullet, but it was a bit tight. Normally I would go a bit more since all the cases are not the exact same length.
Every time I lowered the die I made sure the AD was screwed all the way into the die.
Next I lowered the die until I go about 3/4 rotation. I made sure I tested a fresh case and saw an outside diameter of .3805". Placing the bullet by hand was still nice and tight and probably where I wanted to be regarding belling.
Next I lowered the die until I had full rotation and made the black square did not fully touch. The outside diameter at this time was .3810", a little over where I want to be, but I think I can live with it. I placed a bullet and it wasn't seated too deep.
I probably should have checked the overall length every time after the bullet was placed, but I did not.
Next I used a case and put it through all the dies from re-size to crimping and created a dummy round.
The bathroom scale test was up next and it passed the test, where I was holding it for about 5 second at 27 pounds.

I have not tested the powder drop yet, but that will be next. I can see that there will be an issue since the rotation is complete and it is not set up any different from my other cartridges. Once I have verified the powder drop, then i'll probably load a quick 50 for my next range day for one final test.

Following is a picture taken when I got to full rotation. It is not that easy to see, but you can see the black square never touches. Please don't worry about the charge on the Auto-Drum, it is not for the 357sig.

 

[Rule3]

Hopeful you have got it "tweaked"
Only other things I can think of are:

Is the brass all the same headstamp? (the case wall thickness can vary
and
Not that I like to mess with things that may not need it BUT if the expander plug still does not give what you want, perhaps lightly sand it (it tapers) and it may flair better for you. (just a thought)

 

[Dudedog]

I have found you can get by with a little less than full rotation.
You need enough to let the powder drop but it does not have to go all the way.

Hope theTurret is working out well for you.

 

[Tilos]

I did not use the Lee Auto-Drum since it seems the AD bells the 357sig mouths too much, and I like to keep the belling to a minimum, which is also why I pre-sort my brass by headstamp and length. So without the Lee AD, I attached a funnel to the expanding through die and used a dipper, trickler and beam scale like I do when using the single stage.

Yep, same here
I found that my auto drum flares the case mouth too much also, and in my case I believe it's because of the stiff spring.
The case is over flared, regardless of adjustment, before the expander even begins to move upward and over-coming the stiff spring pressure.
That happening may be caliber specific, I'm not sure, but I have had it happen in several pistol calibers, polishing the expander or lubing pistol cases makes it worse.
I tried a weaker spring but the measure began to hang up, that's when I switched back to the Auto Disc.
And of course, that is just my opinion/experience

 

[vaalpens]

Hopeful you have got it "tweaked"
Only other things I can think of are:

Is the brass all the same headstamp? (the case wall thickness can vary
and
Not that I like to mess with things that may not need it BUT if the expander plug still does not give what you want, perhaps lightly sand it (it tapers) and it may flair better for you. (just a thought)

They are the same headstamp and sorted by case length. Sanding the expander plug will probably be a last option if I still see issues. For now i think I have it "tweaked" for at least my .858" brass, and will have to check the results when I start using my .860" brass.

 

[vaalpens]

I have found you can get by with a little less than full rotation.
You need enough to let the powder drop but it does not have to go all the way.

Hope theTurret is working out well for you.

Thanks Dudedog! I will definitely do some testing with less than full rotation once I verify the powder drop with the current setting. For the first batch I will be using my W244 load, which throws consistently with the Auto-Drum.

The Turret is great. It speeds things up but still allows me to have peace of mind that I don't miss any check through the process.

 

[vaalpens]

Yep, same here
I found that my auto drum flares the case mouth too much also, and in my case I believe it's because of the stiff spring.
The case is over flared, regardless of adjustment, before the expander even begins to move upward and over-coming the stiff spring pressure.
That happening may be caliber specific, I'm not sure, but I have had it happen in several pistol calibers, polishing the expander or lubing pistol cases makes it worse.
I tried a weaker spring but the measure began to hang up, that's when I switched back to the Auto Disc.
And of course, that is just my opinion/experience

Thanks for the sharing your practical experience.

My initial thought was that a weaker spring would help, but like you indicated, that resulted in some other issues. I think part of the 357sig issue is the neck tension. The nipple maybe doesn't get the same resistance as in straight wall cases, which maybe result on all the spring tension applied to the expanding portion of the plug. Probably that is why polishing or lubing will make it worse.

At some time I will probably invest in another powder measure, and will look at the Auto Disk or some other options.

 

[Rule3]

Thanks for the sharing your practical experience.

My initial thought was that a weaker spring would help, but like you indicated, that resulted in some other issues. I think part of the 357sig issue is the neck tension. The nipple maybe doesn't get the same resistance as in straight wall cases, which maybe result on all the spring tension applied to the expanding portion of the plug. Probably that is why polishing or lubing will make it worse.

At some time I will probably invest in another powder measure, and will look at the Auto Disk or some other options.

Go grief, don't go from the Auto Drum to the Auto Disk! The drum is WAY better than the Auto Dsk. Used one for years, you get what you get, determined by the pre drilled holes unless you do some crazy "mods" the activation is pretty much the same. The disk works fine but is limited.

 

[vaalpens]

Go grief, don't go from the Auto Drum to the Auto Disk! The drum is WAY better than the Auto Dsk. Used one for years, you get what you get, determined by the pre drilled holes unless you do some crazy "mods" the activation is pretty much the same. The disk works fine but is limited.

Thanks for the comments. I think I have the Auto-Drum dialed in close to my liking and will load a batch of 357sig for testing. I probably still will look into getting an RCBS Uniflow type powder measure in the future, but it seems the Auto-Drum will be able to do duty when loading 357sig.