Model 37 Ithaca feed problems

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fatmanonabike

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I have a deerslayer ser num 1027485 which dates it to 67or 68 by one web reference. On the left hand side of the receiver it is stamped DPS-26601. there is also a "police special" marking on the barrel. the magazine is not extended. I inherited this gun and have no history. The barrel measures 19 1/2" and while not particularly dirty, 2 minutes and a couple of patches restored the bore to a mirror smooth finish.

I removed the barrel and magazine on the advice of a friend and again while not particularly dirty, cleaned the magazine tube, follower and spring. The follower has some very slight burrs and the light oxidation on the spring were both removed with a light application of scotch brite.

I cleaned and lightly oiled the receiver with still no improvement in the action. Closer inspection revealed a failure to correctly chamber a new round. I saw that the leading edge of the shell was striking the bottom of the breech. The round would chamber fine once I nudged it up (towards the top of the receiver) into position. When the action is operated upside down the problem is improved. It appears to me the extractor mechanism on the top of the breech block is not engaging properly and unable to hold the round to be chambered parallel to the breech prior to insertion.

I'm not qualified or tooled to take down the breech block. What are my options? Does it need it go back to Ithaca?
 
If the magazine spring is weak they will feed funny, If you have another pump gun laying around try using a different spring.
 
What kind of shells are you using?

The extractors {there's two} on these guns only engage once the shell is chambered. It sounds like you have some kind of mag spring or lifter issue.
 
It is not dumping live rounds but rather not feeding properly. I suppose I could try another spring. Are magazine springs generic? Would any 4 round 12 gauge 2 3/4 magazine spring work?
As to shells, I was using 2 3/4, Federal #4 shot.
By order of simplest operations first, I guess I'll try the magazine spring.
Regarding the extractors, although it is not possible for me to see, it appears the top and bottom extractors engage as the lifters operate and before the shell is loaded.
 
Model 37 mag springs are lighter and of a different configuration than those of other pumps, I doubt you can substitute a non Ithaca spring sucessfully.

Regarding the extractors, that might the problem right there, on all the '37s I've seen, a good amount of force is needed to pop the extractor over the rim. By getting in there too early it might be causing angularity problems.
 
Youngster, are you saying that it is the force of the magazine spring that pitches the shell up to be captured by the extractors? That makes perfect sense then. What I can positively see is the bottom leading edge of the shell is striking the bottom edge of the chamber. I have good reason to believe the top extractor is not engaging. Most anybody would know better that me, but from what I can see it looks like the both the top and bottom extractors would capture the shell so that it could be properly chambered.Replacing the spring is easy. I'm gonna pull the barrel so I can examine the top extractor. BTW thanks all so much for the help.
 
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Youngster, are you saying that it is the force of the magazine spring that pitches the shell up to be captured by the extractors? That makes perfect sense then. What I can positively see is the bottom leading edge of the shell is striking the bottom edge of the chamber. I have good reason to believe the top extractor is not engaging. Most anybody would know better that me, but from what I can see it looks like the both the top and bottom extractors would capture the shell so that it could be properly chambered.Replacing the spring is easy. I'm gonna pull the barrel so I can examine the top extractor. BTW thanks all so much for the help.
Click to expand...

No, it should take the act of running the pump forward to chambering for the extractors to pop over the rim. All the ones i've seen just push the shells along with the outside of the extractor claws, until the shell seats in the chamber and only then will the claws pop over.

The extractors on my well worn '37 are actually sprung much more heavily than the fresh single extractor on my 870P, I can't see the relatively weak Ithaca magazine spring overcoming them normally.

It sounds like your bottom extractor spring might be weak and/or the extractor itself is worn, in so that it's letting the shell be caught at the bottom and then present itself to the chamber at the wrong angle.
 
It could be the extractors. I also have a couple of well worn M37s that do not have this problem. Another thing could be the shell lifters also. They sometimes get bent and sometimes cause feeding problems but from your description I doubt this is the answer.


Try Les Hovencamp at /www.diamondgunsmithing.com/ A little background on him. Les was the head gunsmith at Ithaca when they were still making guns in Ithaca,NY.
 
I got a mag spring from a 870 in one of my 37's I didnt think it would work either since it was longer but I pushed it all in and the gun's working like a champ now.
 
My Model 37 dates from the mid '60s and was 40+ years old when I first found the maintenance manual (not the owner's manual) and detail stripped and cleaned it. Though the shotgun was working well, it had an appalling amount of sludge in the action. The process was simple and easy, aided by a 3'x4' length of butcher paper on which I placed and labeled each part as I removed it. As with all firearms disassembly, you should have a set of hollow ground screwdrivers and, for the Ithaca, a long screwdriver to reach the butt attachment screw.

You may find that fouling is preventing the shell lifter arms from coming as close together as they need to when aligning the shell for chambering. The greater arm separation lets the shell sit lower on the lifter and allows the shell to hit the lower arc of the chamber.

Edit to add: The maintenance manual may be found at http://stevespages.com/pdf/ithaca_3787.pdf
 
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Chuck it does apppear to an issue with the lifters. When upside down the action cycles fine. There seems to be a good bit of slop in the lifters. That is to say that I can wiggle the lifters probably 3/16" I also noticed screws in the receiver that hold the carrier group move ( they are locked by smaller screws)nwhen the action is cycled. That doesn't seem right.
 
The carrier screws should not move. Also there shouldn't be that much play in the lifters.

It sounds like the carrier is the problem,it could be a little worn, without seeing it this is pure speculation on my part. The obvious thing would be to snug the screws back up and see if it solves the problem.


Should you decide to take it apart just remember to take the stock off first.
 
Sounds as though a detailed stripping, cleaning, and lubing is in order. Included in the process should be a careful inspection of any loose screws and their holes to be sure that tightening alone will suffice. The same is true of the hole for any screw that has gone AWOL. A truckers' reminder for our inspections is "searching for the BLM," the broken, loose, or missing, works here, too.

Brownell's has a surprising number of parts for the Model 37 and might be quicker and easier to deal with than Ithaca. Brownell's gunsmithing staff is known for being very helpful over the phone.

There has been mention of springs in this thread. Though springs don't seem to be the problem, Wolff Gunsprings has springs for the Model 37. Fresh springs are like chicken soup: they couldn't hurt.
 
I have been experiencing a similar problem but with a 1946 Model 37 and this thread has
helped.

After removing the stock I was able to see the aft end of the carrier clearly and noticed that the carrier was broken where the left lifter attached. I assumed the carrier was one piece but on closer inspection I can see where a pin sheared that attached the left lifter leg to the body of the carrier.

This break was giving me at least 3/16" play (laterally and up/down) in both lifter arms and would occasionally allow one lifter leg to get stuck on the wrong side of the shell occasionally when feeding but most notably when ejecting.
 
Pseudo update.The "gunsmith" is able to sporadically reproduce the problem
but not fix it as yet. I'm in no hurry he's had it for a 3 weeks now. He is puzzled in that it is still not working properly but he doesn't know why. I know nothing of his credentials, but he certainly has to be more effective than my mucking around with it.
 
For anyone interested over at www.shotgunworld.com under the Ithaca forum they have listed in a sticky the detailed take down and reassembly of the model 37.
The file can be downloaded and printed if you want.
 
+1 on Diamond Gunsmithing, Les is one of the nicest guys you will ever have the pleasure of dealing with. He worked for many years as a gunsmith for the Ithaca Gun Company in Ithaca NY, he knows his Ithacas.
 
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